OT vs NT vs Homosexuality vs Common Sense...

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posted on Aug, 30 2012 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by benrl

So basically you don't care about the OP or the theological questioned it posed, you simply want to shoe horn your agenda into it?


Shoehorn my agenda? Did not know I had an agenda. I'd call it a direct question.

You are the Christian who jumped into this to defend.

You are stating "action" sin is the same as being homosexual. So you are stating homosexuality is a choice.

Seems you really tried to skirt around this particular point IMO - - when you went on about accepting this and that.




posted on Aug, 30 2012 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by BagBing
I don't like the idea of gay marriage. That's why I don't intend to have one. But if others in same sex relationships want to get married, it's fine by me.

See how easy tolerance and understanding is? Problem solved.


Marriage is marriage.

There is no "gay" marriage. Its just marriage.



posted on Aug, 30 2012 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 


I think there's a confusion around the word marriage and the act of having sexual intercourse needs to be seperated. There is a marriage and then there is the act of having sex. A penis and a vagina is designed to go together, a penis and a rectum is not meant to go together. Tthe tongue and vagina or mouth and penis is not meant to be together either. Being Married can have different definitions. Good friends/partners in life but without the sexual interaction. This is where religious beliefs dissagree. Maybe a few of you see where Im going with this.



posted on Aug, 30 2012 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by RealTruthSeeker
 


How can you say one chooses to be gay? Did you choose to be straight?

I can personally attest I didn't "choose" to be gay.. I am thirty one years old, when I was little there was no idea in my head about being gay. Didn't even know what gay was due to my parents keeping their children sheltered under the umbrella of christianity. I had my first feeling towards a boy in my class in third grade and then similar feelings towards one in my fifth grade class. No where in all of this did I choose to like guys... just found that I liked them more than the girls. It happened again in middle school and then in high school.. Now I dated girls, but never got sexually or intimately involved with them. There was on special girl in high school that I thought might be able to change my feelings of wanting to be with a guy. Luckily she broke up with me and after high school I came out. No where in my younger childhood did I ever choose to be gay.

Wehn I was younger I actually would pray constantly every day and night that God would take away my feelings and my thoughts. They never went away. I read the bible constantly, even outside of my family's alloted bible reading time. Yes, we had an hour set aside every night to read the scriptures. By the time I was 13, I had thoughts of suicide and wanted to kill myself because I couldn't shake the thoughts of wanting to be with guys..which I knew was wrong. Then I committed myself to a rehab facility with my parents help. I came out to my therapist as bisexual, but even medication couldn't get me to stop thinking about guys.

So please tell me how I CHOSE to be gay? Also explain why other mammals exhibit homosexual acts and tendancies..



posted on Aug, 30 2012 @ 07:35 PM
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Marriage is a contract between a man and a woman. Common Law relationships are called common law marriages or contracts. To make a contract between two men or two women, it has to fit the criteria. It can have a different name than marriage and still be a legal contract and can include marriage as part of it's name but should have something to distinguish it from a marriage. Why do the gay people want to get married anyway, they'll be the only ones getting hitched in twenty years. When nobody gets married anymore they can have the name.



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by Annee

Homosexuals are born - - as God made them. So you are actually condemning your God's creation.


If you are saying that some people are born Homo then you know that's a lie. People chose to be gay of their own accord. Just because they think they are a girl trapped in a mans body does not mean they where born that way. God does not create homosexuals, people do that to them selves.

edit on 30-8-2012 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)


Even if people did choose to be gay, so what? Why should your religion stop two adults from getting married?

If you are of legal age, you are considered a legal adult and therefore can get married. Oh, wait, that's unless the person you're in love with also happens to have a penis. Then you can't get married for that reason alone.

It's craziness.



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by Arles Morningside
still can't see how they are the same, the OT god advocates blood sacrifice of animals ( the sacrifice of Jephthah's daughter is interesting, Judges 11:29-40)

This scripture is devastatingly crushing to me, it hurts me deeply to think that this type of cruelty is perpetrated by our Creator, I seriously doubt these intentions are correct, I believe most of the OT scripture is seriously misguided.

OT



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by SmikeS

Originally posted by Arles Morningside
still can't see how they are the same, the OT god advocates blood sacrifice of animals ( the sacrifice of Jephthah's daughter is interesting, Judges 11:29-40)

This scripture is devastatingly crushing to me, it hurts me deeply to think that this type of cruelty is perpetrated by our Creator, I seriously doubt these intentions are correct, I believe most of the OT scripture is seriously misguided.

OT


Why? Does the thought of blood sacrifice of an animal disturb you for some reason?
edit on 1-9-2012 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 05:53 PM
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Sorry, I meant Human Sacrifice, and Judges Chapter 11 is shocking , out of ten different translations that I checked Jephthah kills his daughter. JST, Godsword, AB, KJV, Webster, TS1998,& WEB bibles all have almost the same text, JST removes a few terms like "Vow" but it's the same.
Is this story in the Torah?
Judges feels more like heroic folklore, rather than actual word of God.
edit on 1-9-2012 by SmikeS because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by Cuervo
 


You can not use JUST "Leviticus" for your arguement. The OT and the NT is the same book. You confuse the laws of men and the laws given to men by god. All you people that use a few key verses of the bible for you arguement error in not knowing the bible or the wiil of god. The bible also told a man to sacrifice his son on an alter. Kind of harsh, no? But there was a much deeper reason and meaning.

None of you can understand this because you are blinded by hate. A Christian can not explain it to you because being a Christian is a much longer journey than a 30 second reply to a post. Why don't ypu all actually read the bible front to back, then ask silly questions?

That said, sin is sin. We will all be judged for or own sin. But god gave us a way out. The bible talks of those that will seek a way out of their sin and those that will "willingly die in their sin".

It is pretty cut and dry.... what part of "shalt not...." Is hard to understand?



posted on Sep, 1 2012 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by SmikeS
 



Is this story in the Torah?


No, it's in Judges which isn't part of the Torah. But the Jephthah story is too long to go into. The end of the story isn't there. It doesn't explicitly say what Jephthah ended up doing. He had other options. Like consecrating her to the Lord and she would have just been a nun basically.

This is the view many commentators take because of her obsession with never getting married in the story. I mean if my dad was going to kill me I wouldn't be running around lamenting because I was never going to get married. I'd have more important things on my mind. Like ya know, my father setting me on fire?

But in the story she's all like, Oh I'll never get married! Boo Hoo! And the story ends with "and she knew no man." Seems pretty obvious if he sacrificed her. So, why mention it? So this leads lots of people to assume that instead of sacrificing her, he consecrated to the Lord as a nun basically. But marriage was so important to them at the time it's hard to say what she was upset about.

However, human sacrifice is forbidden in the OT, so to keep his vow he would have still had to sin, so he really couldn't win. He would have broken his promise to the Lord, or broken the commandments and therefore broken his promise to the Lord?

So if it's lose lose, why kill your daughter? In fact the only option he had where he could have done right by the Lord is not to kill her and consecrate her instead. So many believe that's what he did.

But early commentators imagine he did kill her but they're still arguing about it today. But again the context of the story is what NOT TO DO. It's not like God told him to do it. It's pretty clear from the context of the story that the moral message, if you will, is to NOT make rash vows to the Lord like Jephthah did or bad things like this can happen.

For all I know it's an allegorical story to illustrate a point, like an after school special with a drug addict to show you what drug addiction is like. It's not like the people that wrote the story approve of drug addiction. In fact it's the opposite. They DON'T approve of it, that's why they told the story lol.

That's why the story is in there. To show you Jephthah's foolish mistake and to show you what not to do.


Judges feels more like heroic folklore, rather than actual word of God.


Maybe I dunno.

edit on 1-9-2012 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)
edit on 1-9-2012 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2012 @ 03:13 AM
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Originally posted by benrl

the WAGES OF ALL SIN is death, not just being "Gay"

Looking at my fellow man with Hate in my eye is according to Jesus the same as MURDER.

ALL sin is bad, And all sin can be forgiven.

You just get Fundamentalist banging this one drum making all of Christianity look like hate mongers.

You didn't wait till marriage to have sex? guess what the bible says your as bad as a Homosexual, Look in the sin in your eye before you remove the one from your brothers.
edit on 27-7-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)



I believe this is generally the correct view.

Also worthy to keep in mind is that many of the OT mosaic laws (like homosexuality, slaves, pork, etc) were very much products of their culture, and most were designed to keep the community healthy in some way. Example: Ancient jews didn't understand stuff like trichinosis and have refrigeration, as such, eating pork is not the most fantastic idea. If you follow the biblical prescription for sex between a man and wife, you will be aiding conception. A man who is not out having his fun with other guys (or in a woman's non-reproductive places) will be more likely to have frequent reproductive sex with his wife, thus expanding the community.

If you understand their times and culture, a lot of those rules actually make sense. They are, IMO, mostly for practical reasons and not moral prohibitions. As such, I'm not sure they still apply.

In either event, Christ implied that OT mosaic law both does, and does not matter.
edit on 4-9-2012 by iwilliam because: (no reason given)





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