You have to bugout. (Another gun thread, haters ignore!)

reply to post by MojaveBurning

"How do I plan to survive anyway?" Not sure if that's rhetorical sarcasm, or if you actually want an answer. But I'll give you one. My plan is to learn everything I can now, while I can, about every subject I can think of that might some day be useful. If that means asking questions that people think are flawed, then fine, that's what I'll do, because I do not know everything. I will try to look at things from every angle, in order to learn as much as I can. And, I'll adapt. Even if it means carrying a gun and shooting an animal for the first time in my life, if that's what I have to do to survive.

That was my concern, but it sounds like you're actively addressing it. Just having a gun is worthless unless you know what to do with it, and just shooting an animal is worthless unless you know how to eat it. There are a lot of ways to ruin the meat of a kill and make it unedible or even worse. Rabbits have to be thoroughly cooked or they will make you very sick, while some animals are edible even raw. Organ meat can be a great way to bolster iron and vitamin intake as well as protein, but it can also be a great way to get very sick or even die.

SO, my concern was that you were planning to get the supplies, like a gun, and then just wing-it if the need ever arises. That will not work at all. Even packing books with directions on how to do something won't work. You have to actually do it a time or two.

Trust me, I've spent the last few months cleaning all different kinds of fish from the sea, and I'm embarrassingly bad at it! I thought I knew what I was doing, I've cleaned bass and perch and even cat fish, but cleaning a scaly Sheepshead, or a weird damn Flounder is a whole new ballgame.

Practice your skills. Clean a rabbit, clean a squirrel, clean some fish, shoot at some targets, eat a grub worm or two, hike and identify some edible roots and plants, and identify form poisonous plants. Take your child along with you and learn together. That is exactly what my family and I are doing. I thought I knew a lot already, but the more I actually do for myself, the more I realize how little I really know!

reply to post by MojaveBurning


Explanation: S&F!

I will just focus on the choice of rifles and ignore the kid, dog and 50lb rucksack... I choose the .223 for the following reasons.

1] I can trap and snare small game ... no need to waste bullets. Ever hear of a Throwing Stick/Club [wiki] ???

2] I can convert .22L rounds into .223 rounds [and vice versa] ... and yes I would take ALL the ammo regardless of caliber and the other scope as well! [I'd also take the bolt of the .22L if its interchangable with the .223]

3] I would use my handgun for close range personal defence out to 50m and the .223 rifle for the distances beyond that out to about 600m.

4] I want the supersonic round so that the medium to large game I take down at long range doesn't hear it coming and thus they won't flinch just before it is terminated ... making a clean 1 shot kill.

Personal Disclosure: I'd prefer a Battlefield Rifle like a .303 but that is a different thread!

Take this advice at your own risk because I am just some dumb suburban dwelling pensioner who hasn't fired a rifle in over 20yrs ok.

P.S. I'd quickly lose the kid and the dog and definately that 50lb rucksack. :shk:

I'd make some space/weight sacrifices in my bag for the larger ammo and go with the .223 and not pack more than a few hundred rounds. With a max effective range of over 400 meters, it will have much more reach than the .22 which loses lots of energy beyond 100 meters... In essence by choosing the .223 you are extending your reach fourfold.

So you're bugging out in this scenario... To where? How far? What do you have at your bug out location? Do you have a specific destination or just headed for the hills? These are all questions that would better help in making that decision, but definitely the .223 if you could only take one.

reply to post by OmegaLogos


You bring up a good point I hadn't thought of....

What caliber is the hand gun? If it is a .22, then the .22 rifle can share ammunition!! Very important factor in determining which gun.

And OL, are you forgetting that you can eat the kid and the dog if times get tough?

reply to post by getreadyalready


That's great that you are actually out there practicing your skills. Fishing skills are on my to do list, as I am practically surrounded by water sources (for fishing, not necessarily for drinking). I fished a lot in my younger days, but haven't done it in years. I've found that youtube is an amazing resource for learning many of these skills (the foundations anyway, not necessarily applied). Basic camping trips are a great way to practice many skills, I've discovered, and my child loves it. She also loves helping me with my preps, so I am lucky that she is interested in learning. I've been gradually getting her used to the idea of where our meats come from, and we regularly like to go foraging for wild edibles to add to our meals. She's itching to go fishing, and so I am I. Part of my reason for getting the .22 is that I want to try my hand at squirrel hunting soon (gotta check out when you can do it around here, legally).

Originally posted by Sek82
I'd make some space/weight sacrifices in my bag for the larger ammo and go with the .223 and not pack more than a few hundred rounds. With a max effective range of over 400 meters, it will have much more reach than the .22 which loses lots of energy beyond 100 meters... In essence by choosing the .223 you are extending your reach fourfold.

So you're bugging out in this scenario... To where? How far? What do you have at your bug out location? Do you have a specific destination or just headed for the hills? These are all questions that would better help in making that decision, but definitely the .223 if you could only take one.

Bug out location: West, in the hills, but it's also a specific location. 440 miles away by car. Fairly well stocked, 2-3 months supplies.
Halfway point resting place available, minimal supplies (maybe a week's worth of food, for example).

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by OmegaLogos

 

You bring up a good point I hadn't thought of....

What caliber is the hand gun? If it is a .22, then the .22 rifle can share ammunition!! Very important factor in determining which gun.

And OL, are you forgetting that you can eat the kid and the dog if times get tough?

Sharing ammo, that is a really great idea! thanks for thinking of it. What does "OL" mean? I love my dog with all my heart, but would chow down if I absolutely had to!

reply to post by MojaveBurning


The OL was for OmegaLogos. She said to lose the dog and kid, but I was being sarcastic in saying you could eat them if times got hard. In reality, I might eat someone else's dog, but not my own. Once your in the family, your "made" and untouchable.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Explanation: St*rred!

NO ...I just didn't want to go there... but you are very correct... I would send the dog and the kid out and then shoot the kid and then the dog. Then I'd smoke and eat them

Personal Disclosure: OR .. I'd teach the kid what I could ... leave the dog and the kid with everything whilst they slept and then simply vanish. Because I don't need no gun ... my brain and my body are all that I need + a favourable environment from which to source stuff.

Sticks ... Stones ... String ... Sap/Sealants ... Solvents ... and a Fire Syringe ... these are a few of my favorite Survival things!

[Edit to add] OL is almost a 40yr old male btw ok.

Going with the .22. as for shooting deer with it, its a snap, shoot into the lower half of the chest wall. The rib bones will make the bullet flatten out and bounce all over inside the chest cavity. They fall pretty damn fast. There have been many a thread about how lethal that little chunk of lead really is.

This is a tough one for me.Usually I'm a huge fan of the .22 as a survival rifle,but the .223 does have some real advantages. I won't argue that a .22 can't kill large game,as it clearly can, but can it do so reliably?Not as reliably as the 223,for sure. I guess it depends on where your planning to survive. I live in northern Canada, with long cold winters. So,for me to eat during the winter,I need to kill something substantial, like moose, elk or a couple deer. The .223 is definitely not my calibre of choice for these animals, but it its miles ahead of the .22. Thing is, in a survival situation, I want to make certain of a kill when I get the chance. Anyone who has hunted alot knows it's no sure thing to find game, and if there's lots of hunting pressure,it'll only be worse. I don't want to risk losing an animal with a .22 when I may not get another chance.

Snaring is quite effective, so I would rely on my handgun and snares for small game,as well as making a slingshot for shooting grouse.Fishing would be a great help too, if possible.

You can definitely carry more .22 ammo, but .223 is still not too bad, and if your careful with your shooting, you can carry enough to last a long time.Now if you did happen to get into a situation where self defense was called for, the .223 is the hands down winner again.

I've mentioned this before, but for those of you who are unfamiliar with them, look at Hammonds Game Getter. It is an adaptor that lets you use .22 blanks in your centrefire rifle to fire a lead slug at velocities of 800-1500 fps. I have one for my .270 and for my .444,and they are accurate and quite powerful. For the .444, I simply load .44cal muzzlelaoder balls into the special case,insert my power choice of .22 blank and fire away. I've shot gophers with them at 50 yards,and it doesn't tear them up too bad,so small game is definitely do-able.For the .270,it has a swaging die that allows you to push #4 buckshot or any similar size piece of lead through it to make your slugs. So, you get a full power hunting rifle, plus a pocket full of blanks/balls leaves you well equipped to hunt small game.

reply to post by OmegaLogos

[Edit to add] OL is almost a 40yr old male btw ok.

Sorry about that. I always assumed you were a male, but someone a while ago told me I was wrong. I'll have to go back and smack them for that.

Funny, because I, too, am an almost 40 year old male. Good to know ya!

reply to post by 46ACE


agreed that the back pack idea is not good for long term.
but i think you missed my point! the extra weight of a rifle wont make that big of a difference!
by the way, i'm in my mid 40's,i'm kinda short,5'3,and i dont work out!!!
what i do have going for me is that i'm not over weight!
i don't carry all that weight while riding my bike cause i want to.
its because i have too!
i live in a rural area and the closest food store is a mile away.
if tshtf and i had to 'bug out' i would find a way!
i would probably saddle up the dog, and make it carry the damn rifles!!!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by OmegaLogos

 

are you forgetting that you can eat the kid and the dog if times get tough?

That is horrible, I would never eat my dogs!!!
Oh on topic, I'd take the 22lr, it has much more versatility.

i work hard for everythang i have,i pay my taxs so the man wont take it from me, i wear a seat belt so the man wont make me pay a ticket...when somebody els gos out and shoots people for what ever reason they choose is in there twisted brain i still live in a state where we are required to own a foid card,but when i hear more gun control im not thanking of a shoot out, just useing my guns as a tool so i go buy more ammo, just like gas for my truck, i cant wate untill the people were slaves to messup so bad that i can stay home and injoy my dear steak while the gun haters are in there food lines for bread and water, if i thought it would help to buy a boozka there only$ 50.00 the ammo is $250.00 i would ,but it would make a mess out of my dear steak ill just pay the giant untill he eats all the goldn eggs and throws up then set back and enjoy my dear steak and maybe your puppy dog ,lmfao