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Dem's attach high-cap magazine ban to cybersecurity bill

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posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 10:13 AM
The wording doesn't seem to make it illegal to use an older high capacity mag (possess). Seems it is more of no more can be made and issued to anyone but military/police and ex police.

How do they know who possessed on before the ban date? (no transfer of existing)

(v)(1)(A)(i) Except as provided in clause (ii), it shall be unlawful for a person to transfer or possess a large capacity ammunition feeding device.

(ii) Clause (i) shall not apply to the possession of a large capacity ammunition feeding device otherwise lawfully possessed within the United States on or before the date of the enactment of this subsection.

posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 10:24 AM
What is the odd of this amendment passing? Furthermore, many tech companies and Chamber of Commerce are against the entire bill.

posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 10:24 AM
Why is all the heat against military grade weapons, which can challenge law enforcement or a military under the control of a Tyrant, when most crimes are done with pistols that can be concealed and hidden? Why arent conceivable weapons taking the heat? You can use an assault rifle loaded with low velocity rounds for self defense. Why is the heat against weapons which you more or less have to carry openly?

posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 10:44 AM
Reply to post by Cassius666

That's how the 1994 AWB went too.

The problem was handguns and the solution was to ban barrel shrouds and bayonet lugs.

Stupid is as stupid does.

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posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 10:46 AM
reply to post by Cassius666

Well, one could technically shorten the barrel of an assault rifle, lowering Its accuracy, while also making it more concealable, similar to a sawed off shotgun. More than just that would have to be done but the military does build low calibur, high capacity, fully concealable weaponry.
Check out these MP series submachine guns airsoft models

Most replicas of real weapons

And the MP7 Germany produced submachine gun
edit on 27-7-2012 by DarkSarcasm because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-7-2012 by DarkSarcasm because: (no reason given)

Also check out personal defense weapons, some of which can be owned in the US and fully automatic.
edit on 27-7-2012 by DarkSarcasm because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 10:54 AM
Unenforcable anyway. Magazines dont have dates or serial numbers and can easily be made by hand. Or 3d printer.

posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 10:59 AM

Originally posted by phroziac
Unenforcable anyway. Magazines dont have dates or serial numbers and can easily be made by hand. Or 3d printer.

That wont stop anyone from trying to enforce it.

The whole pre-ban / post-ban AR configuration nonsense in AWB states is testament to that.

posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 11:54 AM
This is a 'Look Congress did something, I feel safer now' for a lot of people who think it is that simple and is a solution.

posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 12:08 PM
These irrelevant to the original bill riders are a weakness of our political system.
One of many such weaknesses......
edit on 27-7-2012 by CosmicCitizen because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 01:53 PM
Years from now when a group of citizens are looking through all this legislation trying to determine where everything went wrong, they'll uncover all this, publicize it and our next constitution will have thousands of different amendments detailing exactly how a bill is to be written and why it shouldn't have any irrelevant, malicious bull# thrown in the mix. We will literally have to tell our leaders and representatives EXACTLY what to do in order to get anything right.

posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 02:01 PM
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

It's been a long time since I was a soldier, but I seem to recall that my M16 had a cyclic rate of 12 rounds per second. However, if one tried to sustain that rate (i.e. through a high capacity magazine) the weapon's heat tolerances would be exceeded and it would malfunction. That's why we were trained to use small bursts or fire semi-automatically. That's also the only way to maintain control of your fire. Full auto is for amateurs, wannabe bad-asses and video games.

posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 02:04 PM
First of all, what the f*ck is this doing in a 'cyber' security bill? It happens to be my area of expertise (although I'm not expert), and can assure you any bill related to Internet security will get scrutinised by professionals, who will kick up a fuss over this.

Wouldn't the 10-round mags actually lead to more accidents? It's bleeding obvious when a rifle has a 30-round mag attached, less so with something much smaller that sits deeper into the rifle.

That's also the only way to maintain control of your fire. Full auto is for amateurs, wannabe bad-asses and video games.

I have only ever fired once in full auto, and that was because I misinterpreted an order.
edit on 27-7-2012 by XeroOne because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 02:13 PM
Wow... That knee jerk stupidity didn't take long. Less than a week for the law makers to rush to their desks and start writing laws. 20,000 laws, regulations and ordinances regarding firearms in the United States obviously aren't enough.

Unless someone has specifics to the contrary, it's my understanding that he had one of these:
(someone mentioned still never seeing one)

They're useful....on a RANGE maybe. Soldiers have found ways to make it work, but it'd be on every M-4 in the desert if they worked as well as people like the shooter seem to think. Of course, all their training taught them that rifles ever jam and bigger magazines ONLY mean more ammo to shoot. training is like that and thank God. Far more would have died, I believe, if this guy knew a magazine from a muzzle when it came to his own weapons.

Having said that...Well, geeze. The Vietnam M-16 began at a 20rd issue capacity. I'd just checked to confirm. The Winchester M-1 Carbine I own has a couple BOXES of magazines and the war time issue ones are 10 or 20s. The Bondliers can't hold the big ones either...those are also carefully kept and military issue.

So...passing laws makes life a real headache for target shooters with a 10-22 that LIKE 50rd or 100rd drums because reloading is a pain in the butt for a full days shooting, but heck...Whole wars have been fought with as much or less than their law is meant to limit. Laws like this do nothing but give us headaches and them sound bytes for the election.

posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 02:41 PM
reply to post by getreadyalready

Thank You! Somebody with brains. Everybody who owns a gun knows that beta mags or anything carrying more than 10 rounds tends to jam. Maybe up to 20-25 rounds. After that the gun misfires after the first few shots. Not enough spring power to push up all of those rounds.

I don't see how they will be able to get the high capacity magazines off the streets since every gun store even in cali has tons of them locked up in the back for internet sales to people living outside of cali. It's very easy for those magazines to disappear and end up in other peoples hands. I know I've shot at undisclosed locations 30 round .308 magazines for a saiga, and a 30 round mag for the glock 23. Fun but tendency to jam. Hell I have a bolt action that was moded to hold 7 +1 in .308. two more bullets thats all I'm asking the spring to handle and it can't even do that.

People need to understand large capacity mags so that they will loose their fear of them.

posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 03:19 PM
if someone wants a hi-cap clip they will get one its that simple.

Let me give an example, I have a 9mm XD pistol.

In ca, max clip is 10 rnd here.

I can walk into a gun shop, get a 40mm clip for an XD40mm, and guess what, its the same size and fit as the XD.

So now the 9mm has a 17 rnd clip...

there are tons of sites on how to mod existing clips to fit higher capacity, even adapters to buy to mods them (all springing from people just being too cheep to buy) now imagine if you take the right away...

Necessity is the mother of all invention, thats wall all the Pro gun control people miss.

where there is a will, there is a way.

posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 04:33 PM
There is no sanity left in Congress. A rider to a cybersecurity bill was attached that has to do with...nothing about cybersecurity? This is a completely political ploy, no conscience, no rationality, only politics. The 12 people that died are being used as a political tool by these political tools.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
For those of you ragging on Democrats for making use of a tragedy, don't forget that we're involved in two wars because the GOP used 9/11 the same way.

You mean those wars that Obama keep perpetuating, and expanding upon? He's in the GOP, right? BH, sometimes you confound me.


posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 05:00 PM
reply to post by getreadyalready

just shows that the enemy in the war on terror is not just al qaeda.

posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 05:16 PM
reply to post by getreadyalready

I have mentioned this a couple of times since this whole thing happened, give me some 20 or 30 rounders and you will see continuous fire.
I have never shot a 50 or 100 round magazine that is reliable, and aftermarket magazines can be just as unreliable too.

More on topic, I'd like to have a bill passed that anyone attempting to pass a gun control bill must have 100% passing, otherwise all involved will be cast into the sea naked 30 miles offshore and caused to swim all of the way back to prove their love of this country.
The 2nd amendment keeps all of our other rights in place, there is no compromising this.
It should be a crime punishable by death to piggyback laws like this.

posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 05:23 PM

Originally posted by phroziac
Unenforcable anyway. Magazines dont have dates or serial numbers and can easily be made by hand. Or 3d printer.

Not really, alot of mags have stamped "For military and law enforcement only".
I don't expect you to know this as you do not live in The Peopoles Republik of Kalifornia, commrade.

Luckily all of my mags were acquired pre ban!

I'm dumping this state soon anyway, gonna get to a state more in line with my beliefs.
Kali can fall off into the ocean, I'll be spending my retirement funds in another tax district!

posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 05:27 PM

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by roadgravel

I almost always used the small mags, because they worked flawlessly, and they saved me some money on ammo. I only put the 30 round clips in (the good ones), to show off every now and then for some novice that had never seen an AK. Bump firing 30 rounds in 5 or 6 seconds is pretty fun for a novice, but also expensive on rounds!

I have been in combat in many types of environments from the jungle humidity of Panama and Columbia to the deserts of Sudan, Iraq and the very, very frigid cold mountains of Afghanistan.

I have used all kinds of weapons being in special operations, and IMO the perfect magazine size for most weapons is under 30 rounds. The M1A and the M14 20 round mags are the best as the 30 round mags are really heavy and tend to either be hard to change or fall out there is no in between.

The larger capacity magazines even in a very reliable AK platform be it in semi, auto or burst, in shotgun (like yours) or 5.54 being the AK-74 or the regular 7.62x39 the 40+ round mags don't feed as reliably. Even in military quality specs the large capacity mags are just an exercise in misfeeds and jams. My favorite weapon for suppresive fire is the SAW - at least the one's we had almost never missfed. The media keeps throwing out this 100 rounds a minute number - I know my operators (who are way better shooters than ill ever be as an officer; mostly I fought with a radio and air or arty support if at all.) can keep sustained and accurate fire well over 100 rounds a minute with normal size mags - no problems.

As far as my civilian collection goes - I have enough 30 round magazines to outfit a company size combat patrol in various calibers I will most likely never have to purchase another magazine as long as I live. I'm all set. Sometimes it's good to be a local warlord; this is in effect what being a small SF FOB Commander is. Footlockers full of AK and assorted mags shipped back to the States for free. You'd be surprised what you can ship back when you are your own "customs inspector". I'm all set.

Anyway, when it comes to weekend training - who can afford to blast away on large capacity mags? Hell I make about 200k a year and I can't.

As for Chuck - stick to NY douche bag! The rest of the nation does not thirst for your "guidance" - thanks.

The people who keep re-electing you obviously don't mind; however, out here where the rest of America lives we are doing fine without your "leadership".

edit on 27/7/2012 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)

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