Why is it okay for dumb people to have kids?

reply to post by 1littlewolf


Thats it in a nutshell. We are very capable of taking care of every single person in this country. It just so happens that the ones that run it, apparently dont want this.

One cannot put a reason on life.

- If you're smart, you'll live. If your parents are dumb, you'll never know anybetter becuase you simply wont exist.


I think we as a country should look back at what we've done to race and creed all these years. Have we learned nothing? We've had programs since the start that could take care of every man, woman and child in need. today, we spend more time trying to take that away from those people than we do to try and better them.

Their lives start with every single one of us. We as a people can determin who is helped. We may not be able to make anyone learn, but we can certainly offer the tools without bashing them into the ground.

When someone tells you, "You'll NEVER amount to anything.. you'll be just like your father". Never know how that person see's their father. Still, 2 things can happen here. Discouragement will have this person doing nothing forever. Discouragement can strengthen this person to do more, to do better than he would have before.

So no one can say that people are usless breeders because they would not know any better as how that child would have grown.

Abe lincoln was a poor guy, lived in poverty. Somehow he made it as a lawyer at some point in his life. Id say the same for quite a few people.

Not everyone gets smarter as they age... Some people obviously have stopping points... but one can never say that if a person knows only # at this point in their life, they will never exceed #. That is total BS.

I personaly believe every single person on this planet is capable of amaizing things. What holds us down are one another bashing about how dumb we are.

Why put up a bar? Why not remove it? I feel the world powers couldnt handle people becomming smart enough to pass them up in common sense.

oh yeah.. Common Sense is smarts as well, but you can be smart and not have a lick of it.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

Originally posted by 1littlewolf

If you have an IQ that high yet don't realize that your chances of bearing children drop off significantly after the age of 35 there's something wrong with you.

Being omniscient of every single fact isn't a prerequisite of a high IQ. Maybe they didn't know.

I don't think having a high IQ has much to do with being good parents, look at James Holmes, for a timely example. I think if you are worried about dumb people, you should focus on improving the education system.

Originally posted by coven83

You've opened up a very big can of worms with this subject. Where would the line be?

Without ego or pride I can tell you I probably have higher IQ and SAT scores than you. So does that make you dumb/stupid? No! Education is directly related to your environment and family. One of the reasons why home schooling, or even "community" schooling is preferable to government controlled education.

edit on 26-7-2012 by coven83 because: (no reason given)

You ask where the line should be. What we need to ask is, shouldn't there be a line somewhere?

When looking at this clip I think most of us are focusing on the the one abusive boy. What I'm seeing is eight other little kids that are receiving information that no decent parent would want their kids to have.

Through this one 9 year old, the little kids have learned that their parents can't protect them. Parents are authority figures, which means that these kids will probably grow up knowing that the law can't protect them. And, if the law can't protect them, then they need to protect themselves - probably with guns.

These kids have learned that violence is the way of life. Some of them will become like the boy, with others becoming too afraid to even walk down the street, or go to school (without a weapon). They've learned that there's danger in crowds. That life is kill or be killed. That might makes right. That we are supposed to pick on the helpless.

One set of stupid parents breeds one stupid boy that affects eight other children (that we know of). This is not acceptable. We can't now say that the boy should go to counseling because the damage is already done to the other children, damage that should not have occurred.

Originally posted by r2d246
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Maybe because it's still suppose to be a free country. Your probably no smarter than she is so don't flatter yourself.

Congratulations! I just gave you an adorable little girl to love and care for. She is the love of your life. She's your little princess that you plan on raising to be happy and healthy. She's going to college when she grows up. She's going to marry a wonderful man and have your wonderful grandchildren. Now, look again at what this stupid boy from stupid parents is doing to your little princess.

Originally posted by article

Originally posted by jplaysguitar
reply to post by xrevxoltx

 

like what are you told not to do thats more inportant than raising kids?
just give it up kids dont cost money and it dose not take rocket science to treat them good

100% correct.

Matter of fact, the one thing I see so diffrent today...

My grandparents on BOTH sides of my tree, litteraly had 7 kids on each side.

That's 14 aunts and uncles with a ton of their own children.

Today.. You just dont see that. No one can afford it.

Funny... My grandparents were poor as dirt... VERY poor.. and they still managed to have and raise 7 kids on both sides, PLUS grandkids by the dozens.. and they didnt cost a dime.

It costs to clothe them. It costs to feed them. It costs to teach them.

It costs someone.. but it wouldnt cost you a dime out of your pocket. We have things in place that take care of people who need. Unfortunatly it is abused more than anything, but you cant take it back because you still have an original purpose to take care of there, wether others ruin it or not.

My mom, while we lived poor, did what she could for us. We always had food, even though we had handmedowns, we had clothes too. We also had a roof. When any of those would fall out of order, you can bet my grandfather or any other family member would step in to assure we had. All of them.. poor.

Still, with a total of 5 brothers and 1 sister (all of which younger), I wouldnt trade one of them for a scrap of bread, even had I starved to death.

If you can get passed that kinda love towards someone, to never have them in your life and be totaly ok with it... then I think the main issue with this problem lies on the other end of the screen. It has nothing to do with dumb people but everything to do with incompetent, immoral people, judgmental, arrogant people who deserve even less of life than being offered here for poor people.

I now believe, I truely live in an evil gilded world. What happen to all the REAL people? Someone is passing something around that seems to be loosing us more than any drug could do today. So many people just seem to fall off the "good people" map these days. It's hard to know who's a worthy friend or vile enemy. Both one in the same?

getting closer to "Brother against brother - father against son" than anything else these days. This is what scares me.

By no means does poor mean dumb. There are filthy rich people that I wouldn't trust to take care of a dog.

It was once totally acceptable (and encouraged) for 13 year olds to marry, to bear many kids to help farm the land. Times change. Now it is illegal and totally monstrous to even think of young children in this way. Funny thing is, it is not morals or concern for children that this view has changed so drastically over the years. It's because the level of education needed to support oneself, and a family, goes beyond the teen years.

Why is it so different when it comes to requiring a level of intelligence in order to have kids? If we are not intelligent enough to raise children in a way that is positive for society, then we shouldn't have them. I don't think of it as evil at all. It's just that times change.

Originally posted by jiggerj


You ask where the line should be. What we need to ask is, shouldn't there be a line somewhere?

When looking at this clip I think most of us are focusing on the the one abusive boy. What I'm seeing is eight other little kids that are receiving information that no decent parent would want their kids to have.

Through this one 9 year old, the little kids have learned that their parents can't protect them. Parents are authority figures, which means that these kids will probably grow up knowing that the law can't protect them. And, if the law can't protect them, then they need to protect themselves - probably with guns.

These kids have learned that violence is the way of life. Some of them will become like the boy, with others becoming too afraid to even walk down the street, or go to school (without a weapon). They've learned that there's danger in crowds. That life is kill or be killed. That might makes right. That we are supposed to pick on the helpless.

One set of stupid parents breeds one stupid boy that affects eight other children (that we know of). This is not acceptable. We can't now say that the boy should go to counseling because the damage is already done to the other children, damage that should not have occurred.

Do you even have children Jigger?

There's no disagreement that the kid in the footage is a horrible little brat. But, as I told that other poster, think about the implications of what you're suggesting. Kid's like that can come from all walks of life, not just necessarily from those whose parents you deem as 'dumb'. Some kids just have issues which are completely beyond the control of the parents. Many families which superficially we would judge as 'ideal' are completely dysfunctional beneath the surface.

As for your forced sterilization agenda, would this be based on IQ, income, proximity of family home to neighborhoods known to have higher violence levels or what?. What do you plan on doing if someone whom you deem to be unfit actually falls pregnant? Force them to have an abortion or simply wait til the child is born and then stick it in an institution? Do both parents have to have a low IQ or will they get to keep the child if one parent's IQ is 'normal'? Should there be a special police task force set up to track down stupid people who want to keep there child yet have gone into hiding?

You seriously haven't thought about any of this have you? This has one of the stupidest yet dangerous (in terms of implications to our personal freedoms) threads I've ever had the displeasure of responding to. In fact if what you propose was real I would have you stuck on the sterilization list and show them this thread as proof of your obvious low IQ. It has seriously lowered my opinion of you and that one person who has flagged it should be ashamed (and also stuck on the unfit parents list).

Originally posted by Hawking
You can say what you want about government over-regulation, but there should absolutely be a license to reproduce, as well as a license to vote in the general election


If you can't answer a few very basic questions correctly, or have an IQ lower than 90 you shouldn't be allowed to do either

They also should regulate drivers license better too... Some of these people on the roads are just plain Stupid!

Originally posted by 1littlewolf

Originally posted by jiggerj


You ask where the line should be. What we need to ask is, shouldn't there be a line somewhere?

When looking at this clip I think most of us are focusing on the the one abusive boy. What I'm seeing is eight other little kids that are receiving information that no decent parent would want their kids to have.

Through this one 9 year old, the little kids have learned that their parents can't protect them. Parents are authority figures, which means that these kids will probably grow up knowing that the law can't protect them. And, if the law can't protect them, then they need to protect themselves - probably with guns.

These kids have learned that violence is the way of life. Some of them will become like the boy, with others becoming too afraid to even walk down the street, or go to school (without a weapon). They've learned that there's danger in crowds. That life is kill or be killed. That might makes right. That we are supposed to pick on the helpless.

One set of stupid parents breeds one stupid boy that affects eight other children (that we know of). This is not acceptable. We can't now say that the boy should go to counseling because the damage is already done to the other children, damage that should not have occurred.

Do you even have children Jigger?

There's no disagreement that the kid in the footage is a horrible little brat. But, as I told that other poster, think about the implications of what you're suggesting. Kid's like that can come from all walks of life, not just necessarily from those who you deem as 'dumb'. Some kids just have issues which are completely beyond the control of the parents. Many kids from families which superficially we would judge as 'ideal' are completely dysfunctional beneath the surface.

As for your forced sterilization agenda, would this be based on IQ, income, proximity of family home to neighborhoods known to have higher violence levels. What do you plan on doing if someone whom you deem to be unfit actually falls pregnant? Force them to have an abortion or simply wait til the child is born and then stick it in an institution? Do both parents have to have a low IQ or will they get to keep the child if one parent's IQ is 'normal'. Should there be a special police task force set up to track down stupid people who want to keep there child and have gone into hiding.

You seriously haven't thought about any of this have you? This has one of the stupidest yet dangerous (in terms of implications to our personal freedoms) threads I've ever had the displeasure of responding to. In fact if what you propose was real I would have you stuck on the sterilization list and show them this thread as proof of your obvious low IQ. It has seriously lowered my opinion of you and that one person who has flagged it should be ashamed (and also stuck on the unfit parents list).

I fully accepted that this topic would bring out some raw emotions. I totally feel for you. But please accept that I am a thinking, compassionate person. I absolutely HATE the idea that we have to even bring this topic up. But, how long can we go on with business as usual (birth as usual) when today's 'norm' is one stupid person poisoning the lives of SOOOO many people?

Do I have the answer? Hell NO! But, we'll never find the answer if we're too afraid to ask the hard questions.

Please note my statement in the original post: "I have to say that, at this time, if sterilization for the unfit were put on a ballot, I would vote for it."

When I say, 'at this time' I mean I am fully open to any suggestions, as long as the suggestion isn't: Close your eyes to the problem, leave well enough alone, don't rock the boat.

Originally posted by 1littlewolf
Do you even have children Jigger?

Yes, and in all honesty I wouldn't have been like the father in this clip that slapped the wrong kid for hurting my baby. I would've found out just which kid it was, forced him to take me to his parents, and I would've killed all of them.

reply to post by jiggerj

By no means does poor mean dumb. There are filthy rich people that I wouldn't trust to take care of a dog.

It was once totally acceptable (and encouraged) for 13 year olds to marry, to bear many kids to help farm the land. Times change. Now it is illegal and totally monstrous to even think of young children in this way. Funny thing is, it is not morals or concern for children that this view has changed so drastically over the years. It's because the level of education needed to support oneself, and a family, goes beyond the teen years.

Why is it so different when it comes to requiring a level of intelligence in order to have kids? If we are not intelligent enough to raise children in a way that is positive for society, then we shouldn't have them. I don't think of it as evil at all. It's just that times change.

You still already have a system, albeit faulty, in place to do this. Child care. Wellfare. Whatever it's called today. It needs alot of work, i'll admit, but by no means step into peoples personal lives when it comes to doing something that comes natural to people, to reproduce, to have and care for young. Some people snap but you cant condem them all for it. To restrict parents having children is wrong. Taking children from "unfit" parents.. That's a case by case basis. But as a whole, it's wrong. The idea behind it...

reply to post by jiggerj


Even if they would just have a required course that both parents need to go through to teach their child how to be civil would be better than we have now. If we deny people from having kids, aren't we denying them their constitutional rights? I think we can see that denying or banning someone from doing something never works. ie. The war on drugs, gun control, etc. People will just always find a way around it. The proper action is always education. Telling someone that they can't do something is like fighting fire with fire. It does not work.

This video was posted HERE earlier.

Originally posted by trollz
This video was posted HERE earlier.

Yeah, I gave credit and a link to that thread.

Originally posted by jplaysguitar
nothing gets me fired-up more than sum lump of junk trying to tell other people thay cant have kids!
AHH GET OFF IT

Nothing gets me fired-up more than sum lump of junk trying to tell other caring people they have no right to PROTECT their kids from other kids that parents don't know how to love or raise!
AHH GET OFF IT

The same reason its ok to ask a dumb question, If your dumb, you dont actually think your dumb, in fact you probably think your the opposite, and just because your slow, doesnt mean your kids are going to be dumb. some of the stupidest people have Genuis children, LOL SOME

And No Im not taking about the OP, or anyone on here

Originally posted by xrevxoltx

Originally posted by jplaysguitar
reply to post by xrevxoltx

 

thers nothing selfish about haveing kids

its prolly one of most self less acts ever to raise a baby
selfless not selfish think about it

It's only selfless if you raise and support the child yourself. Otherwise, it is the most selfish act imaginable.

Yeah, and actually take the time and responsibility to raise the children to give them at least a chance to lead productive, non-violent lives. Dropping out babies and letting them exist without guidelines is not raising children. Raising healthy, happy babies takes a lot of intelligence.

Originally posted by Goldcurrent
reply to post by article

 

Don't worry about th OP's position much. If you participate on the same threads long enough, you'll see he can often come off as a cold, bitter, old man. Hence the suitable avatar.

Right Jig?

Well, when you're right, you're right. But this clip really pulled at my heart strings. I'm not looking at the boy's problems, but at the sweet, innocent little darlings that should NEVER have to experience such insane brutality. One parent's right to have a little monster is more important than every other parent's right to keep their babies safe.

It's just not acceptable to allow society to stay on this path. Taking care of a disturbed child's issues AFTER his/her actions have harmed other children (mentally for life) is too dam late.

If that 9 year old had been a man, he probably could have been facing life in prison. We would have called him too sick to remain in society. Whether a man, or a 9 year old, the damage to the innocent children is exactly the same. It's wholly unacceptable and should not be tolerated.

I repeat, I don't know what the answer is, but not asking the hard questions is definitely the wrong path.

Originally posted by darkbake

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

Originally posted by 1littlewolf

If you have an IQ that high yet don't realize that your chances of bearing children drop off significantly after the age of 35 there's something wrong with you.

Being omniscient of every single fact isn't a prerequisite of a high IQ. Maybe they didn't know.

I don't think having a high IQ has much to do with being good parents, look at James Holmes, for a timely example. I think if you are worried about dumb people, you should focus on improving the education system.

Well, there you go! Instead of sterilization I would be a strong supporter of forced education. Can't pass a test to graduate high school, then people shouldn't be allowed to have a job, marry, or have kids. They can't do anything until then. Hey, pass the test and you're golden.

That will be something.
When i had to do a test for school i could screw it up even if i knew the right answers, just jitters i guess but enough to ruin the test.
Now imagine doing a test to obtain the rights to have/make children.. (amusing they know how to control u getting a chilled after getting busy) i would mess that up royally. And my wife would castrate me to boot.

Hope it never happens. But still interesting topic.

Originally posted by Dimens
That will be something.
When i had to do a test for school i could screw it up even if i knew the right answers, just jitters i guess but enough to ruin the test.
Now imagine doing a test to obtain the rights to have/make children.. (amusing they know how to control u getting a chilled after getting busy) i would mess that up royally. And my wife would castrate me to boot.

Hope it never happens. But still interesting topic.

You make a good point for me. Some people get the jitters for just taking a test (which means they care about even the simple things in life that can be redone if they fail), while others put no thought whatsoever into creating a life and being responsible for that life for 18 years. Failing at this cannot be redone. It should be a totally frightening proposition.