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Australian women were thalidomide guinea pigs, report says

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posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 07:35 AM
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Originally posted by daaskapital

Australian women were thalidomide guinea pigs, report says


www.heraldsun.com.au

PREGNANT Australian women were used in world-first trials of the notorious morning sickness pill thalidomide before it was tested on animals, it has been reported.

Documents from thalidomide distributor Distillers Company (Biochemicals) show Australian women were used in trials of its drug Distaval in 1960, Fairfax reports.

Trials took place on pregnant women at Sydney's Crown Street Women's and Royal Prince Alfred hospitals from May 1961, with other trials in Melbourne and Adelaide.
(visit the link for the full news article)



THat's awuful and on line with the TUskeegee experiments.

en.wikipedia.org...




posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 07:43 AM
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You would think there were some major sources for this info though and a rather in-depth search brings up zippo except one lone link from *churinsofthefiftys*. So - maybe the producers of 60 minutes got it wrong or maybe you did?


reply to post by bluemirage5
 



posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 07:59 AM
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reply to post by rootbranch2012
 

I'd agree that the evidence for the Nazi death camp connection is a bit thin, but it's true that in the 60 Minutes transcript it says:

ALLISON LANGDON: There is nothing worse you can say about a modern German company than what our evidence points to - a firm that offered safe haven and prosperity to some of the Nazis' worst war criminals. More chilling still to consider is the direct link between Grünenthal here in Aachen - and a place so terrible it almost defies belief - Auschwitz extermination camp. Our evidence suggests Thalidomide was invented here as an antidote to nerve gas, and probably tested on prisoners in this laboratory of human suffering.


This was news to me. I grew up in Australia and started primary school in the early 1960s and recall a few kids (mostly a little younger than me) who were thalidomide victims. (The drug was withdrawn in 1961.) But I have never heard any reference to possible Nazi camp tests.

However, for clarification the 60 Minutes article states near the beginning (before the transcript):

Thalidomide was developed by German pharmaceutical giant Grunenthal in the 1950s and sold in millions of doses to an unsuspecting world.

(Quotes from the 60 Minutes article as already noted by previous posters. Link included here for T&C reasons.)

So, it's interesting that it says "developed". This could be interpreted to mean that the drug was invented before the 1950s. Development (and testing) can take many years, after all.

Regarding the OP title, that "Australian women were thalidomide guinea pigs", I tend to feel that while this is true, their unborn children were even more so. While the parents' suffering is unquestioned, those now-adult children are the ones who have suffered most.

Just a final comment: my younger sister was born in the mid-1960s, when the now-withrawn Thalidomide drug was still very much in people's minds. I recall my mother saying years later that she refused any special medication while carrying her (meaning my sister), for fear of the possible consequences. She just used "traditional" remedies if needed.

Mike
edit on 27/7/12 by JustMike because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 08:01 AM
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reply to post by rootbranch2012
 


Immediately after the birth of my daughter, my ob/gyn prescribed me at least one pain killer and one antibiotic they assured me would be safe to take while nursing. I called my daughter's pediatrician to get his opinion and he blew a gasket at the idea and said "Absolutely not!". He cautioned me not to take anything unless it was a medical emergency for me. I actually coordinated with him when I decided to go on Zoloft. We worked on getting my daughter weaned first. My own GP felt it would be "low to moderate risk" to take it while nursing but she did want me to consult the pediatrician. During my pregnancy I was online at a pregnancy forum and knew many women who made the calculated risk to take medications while pregnant because they'd gotten mental health issues so bad it endangered their pregnancies. I wonder how it worked out for their babies. My daughter's pediatrician is just so emphatic about not taking pharmaceuticals while pregnant or nursing, I take it pretty seriously myself. I am surprised my ob/gyns were so cavalier about dispensing prescriptions, by comparison.



posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by daaskapital



A 1962 letter written by a Distillers executive also confirms that "no tests were carried out in pregnant animals before Distaval was marketed", it says.

In 1961, malformed babies were born in Australia as a result of the trials, as well as over-the-counter sales and prescription sales, which began in 1960.

The documents also show Distillers kept promoting the drug to GPs and pushing to include it on Australia's Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme despite warnings from a Sydney obstetrician, who said patients of his who'd been taking thalidomide had produced malformed or dead babies, the report says.


This is sickening!

Australian women were subjected to these experimental 'treatments' before animals were. effectively they were treated as inferior to animals.

www.heraldsun.com.au
(visit the link for the full news article)


If you really think that animals are inferior to humans, than it is you who is sickening.
Think you could honestly say you would survive a 1v1 hand to hand fight with a lion or honey badger?
Sorry, just saying.
edit on 27-7-2012 by Griffo515 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 08:25 AM
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Originally posted by Griffo515

Originally posted by daaskapital



A 1962 letter written by a Distillers executive also confirms that "no tests were carried out in pregnant animals before Distaval was marketed", it says.

In 1961, malformed babies were born in Australia as a result of the trials, as well as over-the-counter sales and prescription sales, which began in 1960.

The documents also show Distillers kept promoting the drug to GPs and pushing to include it on Australia's Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme despite warnings from a Sydney obstetrician, who said patients of his who'd been taking thalidomide had produced malformed or dead babies, the report says.


This is sickening!

Australian women were subjected to these experimental 'treatments' before animals were. effectively they were treated as inferior to animals.

www.heraldsun.com.au
(visit the link for the full news article)


If you really think that animals are inferior to humans, than it is you who is sickening.
Think you could honestly say you would survive a 1v1 hand to hand fight with a lion or honey badger?
Sorry, just saying.
edit on 27-7-2012 by Griffo515 because: (no reason given)


I never stated that animals were inferior to humans. Learn to read properly and take things within context please.
edit on 27-7-2012 by daaskapital because: sp



posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 08:32 AM
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I have no doubt that the Germans were behind the development of this drug. As for testing, there are other theories which probably wouldn't do anyone any good to go into right now. Suffice to say there were mothers and babies from 46 countries, from all walks of life exposed to this poison unknowingly. If someone were to want to know the how broad a spectrum and the effects of a toxin, what better way than to expose as many individuals simultaneously across the globe - and wait for the results to come in.


With all the war crimes documented, there would be more evidence to support that hypothesis.
But thanks very kindly for posting the transcript to see what was actually said.


Originally posted by JustMike
reply to post by rootbranch2012
 

I'd agree that the evidence for the Nazi death camp connection is a bit thin, but it's true that in the 60 Minutes transcript it says:

ALLISON LANGDON: There is nothing worse you can say about a modern German company than what our evidence points to - a firm that offered safe haven and prosperity to some of the Nazis' worst war criminals. More chilling still to consider is the direct link between Grünenthal here in Aachen - and a place so terrible it almost defies belief - Auschwitz extermination camp. Our evidence suggests Thalidomide was invented here as an antidote to nerve gas, and probably tested on prisoners in this laboratory of human suffering.


This was news to me. I grew up in Australia and started primary school in the early 1960s and recall a few kids (mostly a little younger than me) who were thalidomide victims. (The drug was withdrawn in 1961.) But I have never heard any reference to possible Nazi camp tests.

However, for clarification the 60 Minutes article states near the beginning (before the transcript):

Thalidomide was developed by German pharmaceutical giant Grunenthal in the 1950s and sold in millions of doses to an unsuspecting world.

(Quotes from the 60 Minutes article as already noted by previous posters. Link included here for T&C reasons.)

So, it's interesting that it says "developed". This could be interpreted to mean that the drug was invented before the 1950s. Development (and testing) can take many years, after all.

Regarding the OP title, that "Australian women were thalidomide guinea pigs", I tend to feel that while this is true, their unborn children were even more so. While the parents' suffering is unquestioned, those now-adult children are the ones who have suffered most.

Just a final comment: my younger sister was born in the mid-1960s, when the now-withrawn Thalidomide drug was still very much in people's minds. I recall my mother saying years later that she refused any special medication while carrying her (meaning my sister), for fear of the possible consequences. She just used "traditional" remedies if needed.

Mike
edit on 27/7/12 by JustMike because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-7-2012 by rootbranch2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 08:45 AM
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reply to post by rootbranch2012
 


OMG, whats the matter with you? Did you watch the 60 Mins report at all?????

You will see interviews with lawyers who have taken on the case.

Please do not comment until you have checked the links. There's nothing worse than a person commenting on a source they never read nor viewed.

No wonder some of you here on ATS are so damn frustrating!

www.library.arizona.edu...

www.australiandoctor.com.au...

The manufacturers (based in Germany), Grunenthal:

en.wikipedia.org...

Heinrich Muckter:

en.wikipedia.org...

www.dailymail.co.uk...




Now what else do you want from us???????? Now go learn something for God's sake!



posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 08:45 AM
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And this was an ob/gyn, a *specialist* in the field of pre-natal development, health and care. By definition, any foreign substance introduced into the mother's body is bound to be processed by the fetus. This also is true of hormonal influxes from the mother, all have a direct impact on the fetus's auric field with studies done substantiating the theory that the first traumas are experienced en vitro - PRE-cognizance - which are why so many disorders and PTSD for that matter are so hard to treat as they reside in the unconscious. But - getting back - women need to be educated on these matters, and to be aware of what they expose their babies to in pregnancy can leave lasting results for life. A little pro-activity and education goes a long way.



Originally posted by SheeplFlavoredAgain
reply to post by rootbranch2012
 


Immediately after the birth of my daughter, my ob/gyn prescribed me at least one pain killer and one antibiotic they assured me would be safe to take while nursing. I called my daughter's pediatrician to get his opinion and he blew a gasket at the idea and said "Absolutely not!". He cautioned me not to take anything unless it was a medical emergency for me. I actually coordinated with him when I decided to go on Zoloft. We worked on getting my daughter weaned first. My own GP felt it would be "low to moderate risk" to take it while nursing but she did want me to consult the pediatrician. During my pregnancy I was online at a pregnancy forum and knew many women who made the calculated risk to take medications while pregnant because they'd gotten mental health issues so bad it endangered their pregnancies. I wonder how it worked out for their babies. My daughter's pediatrician is just so emphatic about not taking pharmaceuticals while pregnant or nursing, I take it pretty seriously myself. I am surprised my ob/gyns were so cavalier about dispensing prescriptions, by comparison.

edit on 27-7-2012 by rootbranch2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by rootbranch2012
 


My generation of women and those after us already know about it and are well educated on this drug and those similar. Over here, we're not stupid.

This affected the women mostly of the generation before me.



posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by Night Star
That makes my blood boil! It's so heartless what some humans can do to others.

These some humans are the elite/our governments. Such experiments has been going on for ages all over the west.
In America they for example injected children and pregnant with radioactive isotopes just to see how their bodies broke down, how it affected fetus and so on.
Lobotomy and forced sterilization went on until 70s here in scandinavia.

I highly doubt things have changed much. In a few decades they will probably declassify documents on how they did the same in our times.

The people that control the world are psychopaths that manipulated us all. These people don't feel emotions like us and have no empathy at all.



posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 09:19 AM
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Well , GOOD !

i hope MORE humans are used as test subjects from this point on ......... i`m sick of seeing these poor animals used like f****** petri dishes.

Imagine if a huge alien came down and started injecting you with aids to see how long it would take for you to die .......... sounds weird to US ..... imagine what its like for them.

Australia is just a big prison anyway.



posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 09:22 AM
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Good. But today there are still about 3 billion women out there in 3rd world countries with no access to the internet but with a plethora of *helpful* doctors employed by pharmaceutical companies who are ever so ready to offer them *assistance* to them and their unborn under the guise of *medicine*.



Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by rootbranch2012
 


My generation of women and those after us already know about it and are well educated on this drug and those similar. Over here, we're not stupid.

This affected the women mostly of the generation before me.

edit on 27-7-2012 by rootbranch2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by daaskapital
 


The whole Thalidomide story is a disgrace and is a shining example of the contemptuous attitude that major corporations have towards ordinary, everyday people.

However, I'd just like to point out that though they were the first trials, Thalidomide had been used in several countries for quite a few years - Australia was not unique in this.
It was only when an Australian obstetrician raised concerns about the side effects that the trial was arranged.

There were no nefarious reasons in targetting Australia, it's just that the link was noticed first in Australia by an Australian.

I have absolutely no intention whatsoever of trivialising this horrific episode or trying to absolve those responsible but the strict guidelines that now govern the introduction of any drug were largely due to unethical and unprofessional use of Thalidomide from 1957 onwards.


edit on 27/7/12 by Freeborn because: clarity



posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 11:11 AM
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from wiki: In the late 1950s and early 1960s, more than 10,000 children in 46 countries were born with deformities, such as phocomelia, as a consequence of thalidomide use.[13] It is not known exactly how many worldwide victims of the drug there have been, although estimates range from 10,000 to 20,000.[14]

back in the fifties docs thought that drugs could not cross the placental barrier and harm the babies.....they were horribly wrong.



posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 11:20 AM
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I'm sitting here trying to figure out how the baby I took care of in the late 1970's could have been a victim of thalidomide when I'm here reading about how the effects were known in the 1960's and it was largely banned worldwide by then. I must have been misinformed by one of the church ladies as to the cause of that baby's condition.



posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by Ilyich
reply to post by daaskapital
 



INFERIOR TO ANIMALS!!! OMG

get over it we're animals too, and personally I'd rather people don't test on animals.

I think this is disgusting, barbaric and deceitful in itself, no one should be subjected to experimentation with out their consent.



I will play antagonist here. Not really impressed at all with you're noble defense of animals here. While I'm against testing on animals as well, a sick and twisted doping of pregnant mothers is not even comparable. I don't think it was wrong at all to highlight the fact that it was pregnant women instead of a rabbit, I think it makes perfect sense. If I had to test on something, because it was my duty, it would be a rabbit, not a pregnant women. Get used to it. Not to mention it's part of the food chain. If we are animals, then we have won, and we have the power to test on those below us. And if you're saying you would rather see a pregnant women tested on over a animal then you are no different.

You're presenting a double standard. Apparently we are animals but not allowed to behave like them? And should 'know' better? Cruel and disgusting behavior is part of being an animal. A hyena will snatch the cubs from a lion when she falls sick and eat their faces off. Thats how animals work.


edit on 27-7-2012 by ItsSocietysFault because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-7-2012 by ItsSocietysFault because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-7-2012 by ItsSocietysFault because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 01:21 PM
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Why don't the Holmes' and Laughner's of the world ever...no, wait... That's how we know they are mind controlled psyops... A person who really was fed up with the world and snapped would choose a target other than a bunch of random people who have no real power to change things.

Sorry, I don't want to make this thread go in that direction. It's just that the first thought I had upon reading this was that they had caused so much death and so they deserved the same... But of course we all know a pharmaceutical company is different than just some person who goes out killing people... Well, I mean, in some countries a corporation is considered "a person", but that only refers to any benefits the corporation might receive by being considered a person. When it comes to any disadvantages, like being punished for causing death, they are no longer "a person" and will receive the full protections as a corporation...

"Dont you see, Winston?! I could float up in the air like a soap bubble if I wished!" -Paraphrase from George Orwell's 1984



posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by daaskapital
 


Why did the women agree to take the pill??? was it mandatory ?



posted on Jul, 27 2012 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by votan
reply to post by daaskapital
 


Why did the women agree to take the pill??? was it mandatory ?

They were probably told it was safe?? Or not even told what the hell it was they were given.
People have a tendency to trust doctors/health care...
When the American GOVERNMENT experimented on pregnant and kids by injecting them with lethal doses of radioactive isotopes, they were told it was vitamins or something similar.
This is just how these psychopath's operate. They lie and experiment on you without you even knowing you are part of some experiment.
edit on 27-7-2012 by juleol because: (no reason given)







 
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