If the Truth is REALLY a Treasure...[A Christian Dilemma of the Bible]

Matthew 13:44 (NIV)

"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field."

The Kingdom of Heaven is synonymous with the Truth. Since the Kingdom of Heaven and Truth is with Jesus.

Now the Treasure. We all know what a treasure is, popularized in pirate-themed stories! A treasure can be many things, and quite often, they are priceless! but one thing it's certainly not - easy to find!!

I was thinking when Jesus told in Matthew 13:44 he did not meant it just for their time (Age of the Romans) but for all time's sake as well. The truth was hard to find then, it might be the same case today. Jesus is very smart and so is Satan but Jesus is smarter. But one thing common they have is they are both way smarter than us!

We now point our fingers to the most obvious direction - The Bible. Is it The Word, The Truth and more importantly, is it infallible by God's standards?? If you think YES, then another question begs to be answered. Was there a mention of such a book in the New Testament especially a book so important that it is CENTRAL to most Christian denominations today?

Although not mentioned, it's most certainly not a bad thing if 'Preaching the Gospel to all Mankind' involved putting words into writing and distributing the material to expedite the spread of The Word.

Now here's the first part of the dilemma. If The Word is so precious and central to the Christian Faith, then why are mainstream Christians keep claiming that the Bible is infallible, 100% correct, when not even a mention of it in the Bible, let alone, God, assigning an Angel or a spiritual entity to actively guard and defend The Word at all cost??

In fact the opposite can be said according to Jesus - "Watch out for false prophets!!" "Wolves in Sheep's clothing" It's too obvious and too common in the Bible. If God allowed such evil to corrupt The Word, The Truth. Then how else can the Bible be immune to corruption when it's not even mentioned in the first place?? Jesus is telling it is US, YOU, and ME who should discern whether something is of His Word or the enemies.

I read The Bible, I still believe the Bible but now after many years of being a Casual Christian, later, getting into conspiracies, ET creation myths, and now getting really deep into Jesus' Teachings. I'm striving for the truth. I believe the Holy Spirit is opening my eyes and leading me to see that not 100% of the Bible is the truth. It didn't come overnight but hours upon hours, days upon days of research. Often extending into morning hours. Before that as a Sunday-goer Christian only, I felt like I didn't move an inch forward in what I know. And still I believe, there are still tons to find out.

Matthew 14:33 is starting to make sense. A treasure is not easy to find. If you own such a life-changing treasure and want to hide it, you wouldn't hide under a seat inside a Christian Church or between the books in a Christian book store would you???

You would go where few, or possibly nobody goes like in the middle of the desert or a virgin forest. You would even booby-trap it. You would probably create a map or scratch down the GPS coordinates, even make that information secret or obscured that only few would find it and those few had to be extremely determined and motivated - they will probably spend hours upon hours looking for clues where you hid it. At the end it will even cost them their lives for you have booby trapped it.

Matthew 14:33 if it holds true in our modern times, then something must be removed from our modern belief as a Christian. The Bible can't be 100% the truth. The mainstream Christian doctrine can't be 100% the truth. Why?? It's SOOO EASY to be a Christian nowadays. It's too easy to JUST read the Bible cover to cover and think to yourself that you now know the Truth. It's too easy to JUST keep yourself from sinning... Jesus won't make sense calling the Kingdom of Heaven or the Truth as a treasure. Jesus won't make sense telling the gate and the path to salvation is hard and only few will find it.

I tell you what's hard which is according to Jesus. To hate all the worldly things, to give up all your worldly ambitions, give up the desire to have better financial stability, to leave your esteemed job, to leave or be hated by your own family, to give up all your possessions, to look like an absolute loser in front of people even to fellow Christians, and to your enemies, to be hated by the world! This is what it means to be a Son of God. To be frank, these kinds of Christians are quite hard to find nowadays. The modern Christian Church, doesn't constitute as 'few' even if we compare their numbers against the global population. They are many! They don't live anything like Sons of God.

So tell me, as a practicing Christian, am I myself deceived?? I still see truth in the Bible, but no longer all of it. I particularly suspect Paul as a false prophet. My initial research seemed to prove my instincts to be true. Many churches/doctrines seem to bias the Bible towards compatibility with material wealth and worldliness like dream jobs, family relations, relationships among the community so quote a lot of Old Testament and Paul's teachings. You can also bias the Bible towards all things new and spiritual but why are the mainstream churches doing the opposite thing? Remember you can't serve two masters, it will be God or money (money which also represents the world since you can literally buy the world with money). Right now the theme is obvious, mainstream churches bias is a giveaway their god is money! They cater to material blessings, the desire of the flesh, not the spirit!

reply to post by ahnggk


Dear ahnggk,

Yes the bible can be 100% true; but, understand it was not written as a book. It was comprised of letters from individual apostles to churches that were made up of people that knew them personally. When the New Testament bible was compiled, one of the requirements was that the church that brought them the letters knew personally the people who sent them the letters. You didn't print and replicate books till the middle ages. Letters were treated as special things, most people could not even read. Imagine getting the news from other places once a year, everyone wanted to know what was said. It was a different time.

As for the truth, it is not what we believe, it is what is. We only understand part of the truth; but, there is always an objective reality, a truth. As we grow, hopefully, we begin to understand the truth more; but, it is still the truth even if it continues to change. Hope that was at least worthy of consideration. Peace.

I believe the New testament is not infallible, I think it can have mistakes, and I don't have a problem with that. Don't believe something just because its a widely held belief. The holy spirit is what guides you into all truth.

The first, and un-numbered, tarot card is "The Fool." You'll notice his bag appears empty, a dog is snapping at his britches, and he appears to be walking along a cliff (no background).

Originally posted by mikeprodigy
I believe the New testament is not infallible, I think it can have mistakes, and I don't have a problem with that. Don't believe something just because its a widely held belief. The holy spirit is what guides you into all truth.

True. If you are biased into believing that the Bible is 100% true, you stop using one of God's gifts which is to think and use the discernment of the Holy Spirit. The Bible is central to the modern Christian doctrine and I believe most preachers will tell you to read the whole Bible.

But the search for truth becomes too easy if you are biased to think that the book and the word is perfect (uncorrupted). The effort of knowing the truth is not easy according to Jesus.

If you have to rent a plane and they tell you the plane is 100% ok. You as a pilot will probably just take a quick walkaround inspection of the plane before you fly it and that's it! But if they tell you there's something wrong, and worse, they don't know where and how severe. You'll probably look for another plane but if you got no other choice, you'll probably do a more thorough inspection, check the engine, check all the controls maybe run the plane around on the ground to see nothing funny happens, check the instruments etc. In other words, you'll spend a lot more time studying and getting intimate with the plane... ...Eventually you would find the malady, and fix it before you fly.

But what if they tell you the plane is 100% ok but the fact is there's something wrong with it, nobody knows where and how severe. You took their word for it, made a quick inspection of the plane and flew immediately. Then disaster came, you paid you lack of zeal to know your plane intimately with your life.

I think this is the same case with the Bible. If proved to be only 90 or 80 or just 60% correct. Doesn't make it bad. The opposite will be the case and perhaps why would God to allow corruption to some degree. I believe God is trying to separate the men from the boys. Those who will take the fake and easy truth for granted and those who will search hard for the real truth.

reply to post by ahnggk


The truth is a treasure - it is a gift. The gift of presence - the present.
The present is something humans cannot seem to see or hear. Humans deal with past and future and completely miss this moment. This moment is real and past and future are mind made. Humans live in their minds.
When you come to this moment and forget everything else you will be home.
This is the only moment that cannot be imagined, this moment is God, this moment is reality. All else is imagination.

Originally posted by mikeprodigy
I believe the New testament is not infallible, I think it can have mistakes, and I don't have a problem with that. Don't believe something just because its a widely held belief. The holy spirit is what guides you into all truth.

To Op. I found god (or frankly he came running) last year when I had need of him. He used a toltec spiritual book to guide me to an Eureka moment. After that I have read both Buddism and Bhagavad Gita and some parts of New testament and find allmost the same thing in all texts. For me there is just one god and all spiritual text point towards the same thing. I do belive there is things written in the new testament that seem to be untrue and keep you from reaching the goal.

I do not belive in faith being the right way without deeds. I belive in what you do and how you act that is what get you to the place you wanna go. Saying yes to Jesus while not obeying the golden rule does nothing. Obeying the golden rule does everything.

For me Christianety was more in the way to me finding god. I could truely not understand the bible until he/she/it guided me to understanding it and then it made sense on a much higher level.

I do not say that you should not go the Christian route and belive in Jesus. But ask god for understanding and if something seems wrong in the scripture and it does not make sense with experiance then belive reality over scripture. I think people that are very manipulative have screwed up the message a bit in the bibble for their own goals. But if you truly seek and think then you will find. Good seeking. And from my point of view god sometimes have a humour like a small child. He is playing hide and seek with us but comes running when we are hurt.

Love a soulbrother that is a little lost in a dualityplagued world.

reply to post by ahnggk


Ahnggk,

The man who search for truth will find it, with the help of God Almighty and Merciful.

I am a Muslim, but before I came to Islam, I was like you, full of questions so I embarked on a journey in search of Truth, armed with the Bible and leaving home and family and all things familiar to me, to seach for the truth that will free my soul.

The roads don't always go straight, and some religions although they are not the right religion, have some vestige of Truth in them, and in some ways they are the one to lead you to the true religion. For example, I was born in a Catholic home, with saints and statues all over the house, and my parents taught me what they learned from their parents, how these images are representations of God. When I grew older, I stopped believing in statues, I knew they have no power to do anything, they can't help me, nor can they help themselves. They fell and they get broken, and then replaced with a new one, what kind of gods are they?

Then I became a Church of Christ member, a Christian. I studied the bible a lot and the new church I found has no images, not even a crucifix in sight and I felt more comfortable, but still I felt that something is missing. One day, it was thanksgiving in the church, that day I felt particularly close to God and I prayed as I never prayed before, asking God to guide me if I was still in the wrong religion and asked Him to show me the right way and don't let me die except I'm worshipping him in the way that He wanted.

God answered my prayer, I found myself travelling to a Muslim country, I thought that God wanted me to spread Christianity there and I did try in the first few months, but to do that I have to read the Holy Qur'an ( the Holy Book of the Muslims) and so I bought one in English. I just read and read and read the Holy Qur'an, and after that I found myself crying while reading because I know that God has indeed shown me the way and how I should worship him. For the first time I found peace, real peace in my soul, because I knew that I have found the truth. Now I can worship God, the way that Jesus did and the prophets before him did and the way the prophet Muhammad did and know that this is the true religion of God.The GOAL of man. To find his purpose on Earth, to worship God as He should be worshipped. This is the treasure in the field that Jesus spoke about, I found it and I sold all that I have to buy this field. I hope you will also find the treasure!

***
Then said Jesus: 'There was a man on a journey who, as he was walking, discovered a treasure in a field that was to be sold for five pieces of money. Straightway the man, when he knew this, sold his cloak to buy that field. Is that credible?'

The disciples answered: 'He who would not believe this is mad.'

Thereupon Jesus said: 'Ye will be mad if ye give not your senses to God to buy your soul, wherein resideth the treasure of love; for love is a treasure incomparable. For he that loveth God hath God for his own; and whoso hath God hath everything.'

Peter answered: 'O master, how ought one to love God with true love? Tell thou us.'

Jesus replied: 'Verily I say unto you that he who shall not hate his father and his mother, and his own life, and children and wife for love of God, that such an one is not worthy to be loved of God.'

Peter answered: 'O master, it is written in the law of God in the book of Moses: "Honour thy father, that thou mayest live long upon the earth." And further he saith: "Cursed be the son that obeyeth not his father and his mother"; wherefore God commanded that such a disobedient son should be by the wrath of the people stoned before the gate of the city. And now how biddest thou us to hate father and mother?'

Jesus replied: 'Every word of mine is true, because it is not mine, but God's, who hath sent me to the house of Israel. Therefore I say unto you that all that which ye possess God hath bestowed it upon you: and so, whither is the more precious, the gift or the giver? When thy father and thy mother with every other thing is a stumbling-block to thee in the service of God, abandon them as enemies. Did not God say to Abraham: "Go forth from the house of thy father and of thy kindred, and come to dwell in the land which I will give to thee and to thy seed?". And wherefore did God say this, save because the father of Abraham was an image-maker, who made and worshipped false gods? Whence there was enmity between them, insomuch that the father wished to burn his son.'

Your five senses to worship God and buy your soul, is a bargain, is it not?

3:91 Lo! those who disbelieve, and die in disbelief, the whole earth full of gold would not be accepted from such a one if it were offered as a ransom for his soul. Theirs will be a painful doom and they will have no helpers[/

reply to post by ahnggk

What Jesus is saying I think, and it also applies to the parable of the merchant in search of a fine pearl - is that because there is a creation, which is good, that imbedded within it, is that which is the very best.

The ancient sophists like Socratese, before Aristotle catagorized everything for the promulgation of academia, also used to teach the same idea, summed up under the term - virtue.

Jesus found it and encouraged others to seek it out, this best of the best unitive principal of divinity, call it virtue, or quality, it's that quinessential "thing" at the heart of everything, which to find is to find the buried treasure, or the pearl of great worth.

In both cases, upon finding it, the seeker then immediately goes back and sells everything he owns to possess it. This denotes the idea that there are always choices, and, in the final analysis, one vital choice to make, involving attachments whereby an attachment of some kind is unavoidable, and thus, we are best served to sell everything else, and buy for ourselves, instead, that most essential and magnificent thing at the heart of the apex of life, which to have, is to never be in want or in lack, spiritually, where the heart is - "and where your heart is, there will your treasure be also."

The opening lines of the sermon on the mount express this idea as well, that those who hunger and thirst for righteousness WILL be satisfied.

reply to post by ahnggk

I read The Bible, I still believe the Bible but now after many years of being a Casual Christian

What does a casual Christian mean? thank you.

Originally posted by queenofangels_17
God answered my prayer, I found myself travelling to a Muslim country, I thought that God wanted me to spread Christianity there and I did try in the first few months, but to do that I have to read the Holy Qur'an ( the Holy Book of the Muslims) and so I bought one in English. I just read and read and read the Holy Qur'an, and after that I found myself crying while reading because I know that God has indeed shown me the way and how I should worship him.

I would still practice caution on this. God did not promise that the Word will be incorruptible. If that was the case then God would stop all false prophets in their tracks. However, I still do believe that Truth can be found in both the Bible and the Quran, just not all of it. I've got few Muslim friends and many Christian friends. I hate to be the judge but it's impossible to tell which one is which!

Upon my searching it would seem that you should never ever tie yourself up to any religion. Jesus did not seem to have started a religious movement. To be called a 'movement' you'll to be concerned with numbers of membership. Jesus had multitudes follow him but for the most part, they were only concerned with their own needs such as healing and demon possession. Jesus keeps mentioning only FEW will find it.

Jesus also revolutionized the Law. I believe He made it 'portable', you can call it 'Law of Moses Lite Edition' not trying to be funny or anything. So you can spread the gospel around with carrying a big book and without having to memorize volumes of stuff... Illiteracy was rampant during Jesus time. The Law was condensed to #1 and #2 - Love your God with everything you are and Love your neighbor as yourself. All the other laws are central to #1 and #2. If you follow #1 and #2, you would not commit murder, you would not steal, lie, and lust after another. You would not be lazy, you won't beg, etc etc. You won't lust/covet material things or even opportunity, for selfish gains. Follow #1 and #2 and you will gain eternal life. Of course salvation comes with faith in Jesus but faith without works is dead so you still must do Laws #1 and #2 to demonstrate your faith in Jesus.

The intent of Jesus was not to carry a book as I begin to see although his disciples received a lot of 'training' from Him. During His time, a book would have intimated people due to the rampant illiteracy. Anyone who held a book would have been seen as an authority figure and Jesus doesn't want that. He doesn't want anyone calling any person 'father' or 'teacher' but Him only.

@Newageman

In both cases, upon finding it, the seeker then immediately goes back and sells everything he owns to possess it. This denotes the idea that there are always choices, and, in the final analysis, one vital choice to make, involving attachments whereby an attachment of some kind is unavoidable, and thus, we are best served to sell everything else, and buy for ourselves, instead, that most essential and magnificent thing at the heart of the apex of life, which to have, is to never be in want or in lack, spiritually, where the heart is - "and where your heart is, there will your treasure be also."

If I found an intact flying saucer under your property, I'll sell everything I have and buy your property at triple the cost!

I believe the Kingdom of God, like the flying saucer as an example, is not just your life changing, decision to make, it's a world-changing thing to find! Of course, assuming this time, the Gov't won't cover it up!

@Scatterbrain

What does a casual Christian mean? thank you.

I used go to church every Sunday and obey most of the 10 Commandments. But the fact is I break the most important #1 and #2 Laws. If you commit to #1 and #2 laws, you won't just be a Sunday churchgoer or spend as little time possible praying and seeking God from Monday to Saturday. It would no longer be a chore to do it, in fact a lot of things will change, even your career. You would no longer desire for the highest-paying most esteemed job possible but those with less compensation, but less stressful and more freedom of time will begin to sound more appealing!

reply to post by ahnggk


Jesus indeed didn't establish any religion, nor did he changed the law. He just followed the religion followed by his forefathers, and that is Islam ( Submission to the Will of God).

Goodluck on your search, Ahnggk.

I have come home.

Peace!

Originally posted by queenofangels_17
reply to post by ahnggk

 

Jesus indeed didn't establish any religion, nor did he changed the law. He just followed the religion followed by his forefathers, and that is Islam ( Submission to the Will of God).

Goodluck on your search, Ahnggk.

I have come home.

Peace!

I hate to burst your bubble but Islam came 600 years after Jesus went back to heaven. He was a jew. Stop believing in lies. If Islam means submission to God why do muslim not do it, hm?



When did God say to walk round this thing 7 times for remission of sins? Did Jesus ever walk around this thing? No? Then why do you?



Did Jesus ever pray to this thing for remission of sins? Kiss it? Touch it? Revere it? Then why do you?





When did Jesus say to do this? Jesus didn't come to make a new religion, he came to clean up judaism. Islam was born from the pagan Quraysh tribe Muhammad came from with Hu'bal (Satan) as supreme deity. You don't even know what you believe in, how can you go telling other people what to believe in?

1st Commandment: I AM YHWH Elohim, you shall have no other elohim before me.

2cd Commandment: You shall not make for yourself any graven image, of what is in heaven, on the earth or in the sea.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


You deserve a "denied ignorance" award.

There are so many logical flaws in what OP and a few others said I don't even know where to begin.

reply to post by ahnggk


Good thread. You remind me of a verse from the Maxims of PtahHotep. Some people believe him to be Joseph from the 5th Dynasty Egypt.

"Be not arrogant because of that which you know; deal with the ignorant as with the learned; for the barriers of art are not closed, no artist being in possession of the perfection to which he should aspire. But good words are more difficult to find than the emerald, for it is by slaves that that is discovered among the rocks of pegmatite."

The pegmatite is the worthless stone that the slave digs up to find the emerald. Notice who finds the emerald. The King receives what is found, but he didn't need it. Our King allows us to keep what we find in the end. Everything else is discarded. In the end, what is the Word of God in written form? It is our collection of emeralds. What is God's Word among the pegmatite? Jesus. He is the Living Word.

As Christ is, so shall we be. Why is it that we see the Bible as incorrect or filled with error in place? Two reasons.

1) As Solomon points out in Ecclesiastes, he realizes that we are out of context with truth. At the end of his life, he was a failed husband and father. All his wisdom amounted to nothing when he realized that he was out of context with the truth he knew. For instance, his proverbs say to honor the wisdom of your father and mother. What if your father and mother are thieves and prostitutes? Do you honor their wisdom? No, you are out of context with truth. Solomon had 700 wives, yet wrote Song of Solomon, which was a story about Christ loving his true bride. Did Solomon keep his first love? His own children did not follow his wisdom, yet he was the one that said, "Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

2) The Bible is a mirror of both God and man. Both are in the reflection. When we see ourselves out of context with God, is the pegmatite us or God? Who leaves the emeralds for us?

With that said, it is also worth noting that the outer layer of the onion is not where the truth is found. This is merely the body the word takes on. The true Word is located in the symbols. Symbols are like words that form sentences. What they tell us is interlocked within the meaning of the symbol. Each symbol carries different perspectives, like verbs, nouns and adjectives. Usage is important, but context is what the outer layer provides. There is a core to this onion and the root of symbol is where the core resides. This ensures that the meaning of God's Word, at the core of symbolism, is preserved by being hermetically sealed.

The key to unlocking the symbol is found in the Seven Rules of Hillel. These rules are worth memorizing.

Originally posted by queenofangels_17
reply to post by ahnggk

 

Jesus indeed didn't establish any religion, nor did he changed the law. He just followed the religion followed by his forefathers, and that is Islam ( Submission to the Will of God).

Goodluck on your search, Ahnggk.

I have come home.

Peace!

But, the will of God is love. The law is completely fulfilled with love. What law could be broken if we love others as ourselves? This is the problem for Islam. Jesus had a Gospel and that Gospel was to love others--even enemies. The name of God is his character, the same with Jesus. We associate their actions and fruit with their name and character. When we take the name of the Lord in vain, we take the name but not the character.

Islam continues to act out of character with God's love and expectations through the gospel message. They take it in vain. So do Christians who do not love others. The Hebrews who reject Christ do not even take the name.

There is only one group of Abrahamic religion that takes the name properly. When Abraham was Abram, God told him a great nation would be produced by his offspring. He added the letter 'Hey' to his name, making him AbraHam. Hey means to behold a great work. That great work was the Son. Next, we receive the Holy Spirit and finally we receive salvation. See it in the history.

Islam claims Barnabas. Let's see what he says.

Epistle of Barnabas 15:4

Give heed, children, what this meaneth; He ended in six days. He meaneth this, that in six thousand years the Lord shall bring all things to an end; for the day with Him signifyeth a thousand years; and this He himself beareth me witness, saying; Behold, the day of the Lord shall be as a thousand years. Therefore, children, in six days, that is in six thousand years, everything shall come to an end."

Examine history and see that we have three witnesses to confirm the truth. Jesus, Barnabas and history itself confirms. Even Islam knows that the end will come when the signs begin to happen. We are there. What was the purpose of Jesus if not to express a written word in the form of a Gospel of love for all people? Take the name, but don't miss the character of what it proclaims. Salvation is for anyone, not just the Muslim.

-Adam to Abraham 2000 Years of Age 1 (FATHER)
-Abraham to Jesus 2000 Years of Age 2 (SON)
-Jesus to Today 2000 Years of Age 3 (HOLY SPIRIT)
-Day of Rest (Day of the Lord) 1000 years (SALVATION)

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
With that said, it is also worth noting that the outer layer of the onion is not where the truth is found. This is merely the body the word takes on. The true Word is located in the symbols. Symbols are like words that form sentences. What they tell us is interlocked within the meaning of the symbol. Each symbol carries different perspectives, like verbs, nouns and adjectives. Usage is important, but context is what the outer layer provides. There is a core to this onion and the root of symbol is where the core resides. This ensures that the meaning of God's Word, at the core of symbolism, is preserved by being hermetically sealed.

The key to unlocking the symbol is found in the Seven Rules of Hillel. These rules are worth memorizing.

edit on 30-7-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

Thanks for the link EnochWR. Not a fan of symbology but saved the link and will study it.

To all,

Once you realize the Bible is corruptible and upon deeper research into the Canon process, you'll realize that together with dead giveaways within the Bible, there's a very likely chance that it is corrupted. Didn't God tells us to test every idea, every spirit, every prophet etc??

God didn't tell us to believe ANY person right away what they say is right. I ask you, where did you, as a Christian, got the idea that the Bible is an infallible book?? From your Pastor?? Then again, where did your Pastor get that idea?? And so on and so forth....

If you are a Christian, doesn't give you an excuse to be non-scrutinizing, the command was in fact opposite and to be open minded. The reason to pray for wisdom is for a very useful purpose - to understand truth and avoid deception.

We are in the battle for our minds!! The fact you joined ATS, it shouldn't be a surprise to you!

reply to post by ahnggk


Based on the reply, I think you missed the point. The Bible is an image. We look into it to see ourselves. The image that is returned to your view is of us and of God. The error you are seeing is not in the Bible. It's in your own comparison of the reflection. One resource I can suggest is BibleGateway.com. You can listen to the audio of any book in the Bible. If you think there is error, consult the resources and read the Matthew Henry Commentary. If you look closely, the error you find is within yourself. This is true for all of us. God said what he meant and he means what he said. Linguistics is a tricky thing. The Seven rules help you with context, but the overall picture that emerges from the symbols is in total agreement. Are there scratches on the surface from men who tried to change the world? Possibly, but we can verify this a minimal from emerging sources that are continually being found.