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There is no such thing as a "9/11 truth community"...

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posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 



There may be many speculative theories on what happened that day..some are pretty wild, but none are as wild as the "official" government story. I would believe ray guns and interdimentional radio controlled planes over that POS 9-11 commision report!


You failed to mention that all of those groups you bring up share the same thing in common. None of them are sold on what their government has been telling them. (like you) Now, stop baiting.

edit on 26-7-2012 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by Flatcoat

Well, you can play dumb if you like, but you know I'm talking about the collapse of the buildings.


Well you can play dumb if you like, but you know Hooper was referring to all parties agreeing the collapse was caused by fire induced loss of structural integrity, and none of the myriad scenarios differ from each other's explanations as radicially as "lasers from outer space" vs "Mini-nukes" vs "hologram planes" do.

So why such radically different explanations?


Okay dave. Let's put it like this: basically all "truthers" believe that the towers were demolished on purpose. It's the "how" that spawns the different theories. Just like all "OSers" believe that fire brought the buildings down and there's been a number of different "how"s to explain the fire theory as well. Is that clear enough for you?
BTW, where do you stand on "serendipitous thermite" "burning iron" and "aluminium explosions" ?



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by Wookiep
 



You failed to mention that all of those groups you bring up share the same thing in common. None of them are sold on what their government has been telling them.

Yes, that is often a very common thread, also varying degrees of Anti-Semitism. But the anti-government thing speaks volumes. Its generally a manifestation of envy and low self-esteem.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by Wookiep
 



You failed to mention that all of those groups you bring up share the same thing in common. None of them are sold on what their government has been telling them.

Yes, that is often a very common thread, also varying degrees of Anti-Semitism. But the anti-government thing speaks volumes. Its generally a manifestation of envy and low self-esteem.


I don't think those in the "truth movement" are anti-government due to envy or self-esteem issues. (that doesn't really make sense anyway IMO) I think peope question this government because of things constantly not adding up, the lies, etc, the list goes on and on and has been for decades. 9-11 left a LOT of questions unanswered and even to this day, the events on that day still don't add up. The 9-11 commission report was a load of nonsense, everyone knows that, not even just "conspiracy theorists". The more the government lies, the more distasteful it becomes to the public. Pretty common sense stuff, really.
edit on 26-7-2012 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 03:37 PM
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your last offtopic baiting thread got locked and now you start a new one? Seriously?
edit on 26-7-2012 by Cassius666 because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-7-2012 by Cassius666 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by GoodOlDave
 



There may be many speculative theories on what happened that day..some are pretty wild, but none are as wild as the "official" government story. I would believe ray guns and interdimentional radio controlled planes over that POS 9-11 commision report!


So you're saying that it's impossible for Islamic fundamentalists to ever stage terrorist attacks against anyone and yet lasers from outer space sounds perfectly logical. This, despite all the OTHER attacks by Islamic fundamentalists throughout the world. Is that really what you're trying to say?

I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you're really not saying such a thing, for even you have to recognize just how stupid a claim it is. Please rephrase your statement.



You failed to mention that all of those groups you bring up share the same thing in common. None of them are sold on what their government has been telling them.


I know. Between accusing Bush, Obama, the NY police dept, the NY fire department, the FBI, the FAA, NORAD, NIST, FEMA, NATO and even the Red Cross (!) of being in collusion with the conspirators, the only ones the conspiracy theorists are uniformly inisisting are completely innocent are Bin Laden and Al Qaida. That ain't exactly a selling point, you know.

Now please answer the question.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by Flatcoat
Okay dave. Let's put it like this: basically all "truthers" believe that the towers were demolished on purpose. It's the "how" that spawns the different theories. Just like all "OSers" believe that fire brought the buildings down and there's been a number of different "how"s to explain the fire theory as well. Is that clear enough for you?
BTW, where do you stand on "serendipitous thermite" "burning iron" and "aluminium explosions" ?


No they don't. What you're referring to is the MIHOP ("Make It Happen On Purpose") crowd, who say the entire attack was fabricated from A to Z. You're forgetting about the LIHOP ("Let It Happen On Purpose") crowd, who say everything happened more or less the way the engineers said it did but Bush knew full well the terrorists were on their way but he intentionally allowed the terrorists to carry it out.

Where do I stand on thermite? Jones' report was finally peer reviewed and the "thermite" he discovered turned out to be paint. I know that because the report findings were posted here on ATS. That pretty much takes the entire wind out of the whole thermite argument.
edit on 26-7-2012 by GoodOlDave because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 


I personally do not think there is a 'truth community'. There is a mass of people globally that do not think 9/11 happened the way we are told by the USA government.

They are just individual people that collectively agree that there is something dishonest about what really happened on 9/11.

The majority of those that do not believe the official version of events do think it was a controlled demolition. I do not think it has anything to do with conspiracy websites.
There are many people that know their science, and use those skills to determine what they think. So I doubt very much, that many would believe the first thing they come across. If that were the case and people were so easily led then they would just accept the offical account and not even be looking into 9/11.

I've not come across anyone say lasers from out of space, you are the first person I hear speak of this, if that were the case surely they would be visible? Sounds a bit too sci-fi and far fetched. I'm, not saying lasers are not powerful, but I don't think many would entertain that. Controlled demoltion seems the most plausible, even more plausible than planes and fires. Whatever it was, something other than fires and planes assisted the destruction of the towers.

I think using Alex Jones, Judy Wood, Rob Balsamo, Richard Gage in the same sentence is misleading.

Alex Jones is fake, even though he tries to pretend he isn't. Judy Wood I'm not sure about, she is on the right track, and it could be technology that we don't know about because we know governments hold back technology. She has done good work, and has a great resource if anything else.

Rob Balsamo does great work, as does Richard Gage, they are not disinfo, I have seen one or two pro-government types trying to take cheap shots at them, but there are more people that support them than don't. I think some see them as a threat for uncovering what happened, so will try to make them look bad, but you'll always get idiots that will try to black people's names.

We need an investigation because NIST, FEMA, 9/11 Commision clearly did not go into enough detail, they did not follow al lthe guidlines, and they presented quite a lot of bad data, and because of that there is a mass of people questioning them and the whole official account. Until a fresh unbiased investigation is done, then 9/11 will still be a very open incomplete story.

I don't see those searching for the real truth fighting with each other, I see those that support the government's version of 9/11 as the people that are arguing with those searching for the truth.

You mentioned in this thread you do not believe the government, so that obviously makes you a truther as they call it, and so you must have come across lots of people that do believe the government arguing with you? Truthers don't fight with truthers, they tend to work together because they have an equal cause.

What is your belief about 9/11? I know truthers like yourself can have differing views, and most do believe it was a controlled demolition, so as a truther, what theory do you believe? Going off what you wrote in your opening post in this thread, did you believe the first thing you read on a conspiracy website?



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 


I think you may have misunderstood me. I was referring to Greenings theory that the aluminium from the aircraft may have "powderized" , mixed with rust from the steel, and formed thermite.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by Cassius666

your last offtopic baiting thread got locked and now you start a new one? Seriously?


It wasn't locked because of me. It was locked because of the crowd of truthers coming in and accusing the wreckage on display at the Smithsonian to be faked, just like they accuse everything else that refutes their claims of being faked. Oh, and let's not forget how a certain person seems to have a near-religious need to turn literally every thread here into a quagmire of arguments over junk physics. It was my own human failing that I took such absurd comments seriously in my responses.

At any rate, it was still a matter of public interest to point out that a piece of "WTC steel that was sent to China and/or locked away where noone can see it" was- SURPRISE- on display to the public for any interested parties to see, so it was hardly a baiting thread.

Now please answer the question.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 


Your point in this thread was to point out that there is no "truther movement" based on the fact that there are many speculative theories out there. Perhaps you missed the hundreds of threads, many of which you have been involved in concerning the multiple discrepencies, seemingly impossible coincidences and other events that never took place before (like 3 buildings falling at nearly free fall speed due to fires for the first and so far last time in history).

It makes me question if you've ever paid any attention to the threads here that you so often participate in, or if you just enjoy baiting?
If you want to debate the "guys with box-cutter" theory which you find so believable, then perhaps a thread with that particular topic could once again be created by you?



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by GoodOlDave
 


Your point in this thread was to point out that there is no "truther movement" based on the fact that there are many speculative theories out there. Perhaps you missed the hundreds of threads, many of which you have been involved in concerning the multiple discrepencies, seemingly impossible coincidences and other events that never took place before (like 3 buildings falling at nearly free fall speed due to fires for the first and so far last time in history).


I don't know why that's relevent, since every single one of those "impossible coincidences" have been debunked the moment they've been posted...and I might point out, many times by other conspiracy theorists. Bonez, for example, is well known to frequently correct the "lasers from outer space" conspiracy theorists, and the "lasers from outer space" conspriacy theorists are known to point out the fallacies in the "thermite" explanation. EVERYBODY comes out against the "no planes" people when they show up.

I think you pointed out the problem yourself by using the word "speculative". Everyone has become an armchair detective so everyone is speculating their own explanation. Problem is, they're allowing their own antiestablishment bias to cloud their speculation. Suppose it turns out the Jews really DID blow up the building to frame Islamic fundamentalists and trick the US to go to war with their enemies. Do you really think the "Bush staged 9/11" crowd will ever accept that answer?

If it annoys you that I'm pointing all this out, then is this really because I'm baiting, or is it because there really isn't any actual 9/11 truth community to ever come together as a community as I said to begin with?



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 




Suppose it turns out the Jews really DID blow up the building to frame Islamic fundamentalists and trick the US to go to war with their enemies. Do you really think the "Bush staged 9/11" crowd will ever accept that answer?


Many of them might, actually. The majority? I don't think so, but would you even spend a moment understanding why, or is slinging mud more important to you? Does it not matter that most of the accused were from Saudi Arabia, and that Bush DID use it as an excuse to go to war with 2 countries not even involved? Is it not OK to wonder how passports were magically found when barely anything in the rubble was recognizable? I won't even mention how the towers fell because I believe you honestly believe that you have debunked all the concerns there. Even if you do have that part all figured out.. What about all the other questions on 9-11, I'm sure you are aware there are 100's of them by now? I think you have a serious problem with the questions being asked, more than you do with how they are answered. I don't even think most "truthers" claim to know the answers. Many technicalities are disagreed upon yes. Many wild theories have been put out, yes but this doesn't change the fact that there are still very many unanaswered questions, and you seem VERY bitter about it.

I'm sorry, but you have not "debunked" these massive amount of questions since a question cannot be debunked, only given a straight answer. The surface has not even been scratched. If you think you have it all figured out, and if you think you've answered everything about that day, then you are more delusoinal than anyone.

You may agree with say, NIST for example, but others have found flaws in their theories time and time again, and they have the right to raise the questions. This debate will go on long after you and I are gone whether you like it or not. I say, learn to deal with it Dave or you'll cause yourself a heartattack someday because I don't think attacking "truthers" will fill any empty void in your life no matter how many times you do it.
edit on 26-7-2012 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by crawdad1914
Dave , what is this need you and other OS subscribers have to haunt the 9/11 forums pushing agenda? As you and others have said,no one takes the movement seriously so why continue? I really don't understand what compels you and others? Serious question.


(Sigh) and I will tell you YET AGAIN...I'm not "pushing the official story agenda" because I don't believe the "official story", so if I don't believe the "official story" then it's deliberately misleading to base a question on the assumption I believe the "official story. It's as if you don't even care anymore that you're lying.

Now how about answering the question- why does person A look at the towers collapsing and thinks "controlled demolitions" and yet person B looks at the towers collapsing and thinks "lasers from outer space"?
The specific question you asked me has been answered by others. I am new here and so your assertion that you do not believe the official story is news to me and likely others. Please tell me and others what you consider to be lies in the official story. Thank you.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 05:15 PM
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Massive FACE PALM

Give it up Dave, no one is taking you seriously.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by GoodOlDave
Someone mentioned in another thread

That would be me.



Originally posted by GoodOlDave
that a certain alternative conspiracy theory isn't supported by "the 9/11 truth community", and the whole reason why noone is taking the 9/11 truth community seriously, is becuase there IS no "9/11 community". All you have is a huge assortment of individuals who believe in their own individual conspiracy stories

False. I said "9/11 research community". Either way, no professional 9/11 research organization supports crackpot "theories". Hence why the following thread was created a while ago:

DEW/Energy Weapons? Holograms? TV Fakery? No Planes at the WTC? -- A 9/11 Disinfo Campaign

Every individual person is free to express whatever crackpot theories they desire. The professionals at Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, Scientists for 9/11 Truth, and Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice, for instance, do not subscribe to any of the crackpot theories listed in my thread above. There's more crackpot theories that aren't supported, but the one's in my thread are the most peddled.

The professional research organizations make up a large part of the 9/11 research community.



Originally posted by GoodOlDave
I invite you to explain exactly why this is happening.

As my thread above clearly states, there is a disinformation campaign going on to discredit the 9/11 truth movement.



Originally posted by GoodOlDave
Richard Gage, actually. He's the one claiming he has 1600 architects and engineers (who really aren't architects OR engineers) backing him.

I love how you just flat-out, deliberately and publicly make such a dishonest statement that can easily be fact-checked. I love how you can just claim that degreed architects and engineers aren't really architects and engineers, and they really don't have degrees, all because they see 9/11 differently than you want to believe.

Absolutely unbelievable.



Originally posted by GoodOlDave
It wasn't locked because of me. It was locked because of the crowd of truthers

Really? You may want to go back and read why the thread was closed because your claim is not accurate.

Again, absolutely unbelievable.




edit on 26-7-2012 by _BoneZ_ because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by Varemia
The funny thing about claiming that having 1600 followers, is that the majority of them aren't even real architects or engineers in the sense that you are using them. As far as I know, none of them are posting papers to academic journals. So why should I listen to their criticisms?

I wasn't aware of some rule that required trained professional architects and engineers to write papers to academic journals to be considered credible.

Person A and Person B both went to the same school, had the same engineering class, got the same degree. But Person B wrote a paper and person A did not. That makes person B more credible? Give me a break, seriously.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 08:21 PM
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I dont understand why the "Truthers" find the official report so unbelievable. I and anyone with a funtional brain find the official report completly believable and the truth.. "Truthers" make up wild lies and say they are facts, find "experts" that dont have any certifications or degrees in the field they are giving their professional opinions on. Then when their lies are debunked they get all red faced, resort to name calling, and acting like a child in a store when their mother wouldnt buy him his favorite ceral. Have any of you proved that the government was behind the killing of JFK, Yeah didnt think so.

Its common sense you dont have to be a genius to see there is no conspiracy. If it was a big conspiracy then thats a awful lot of people and agency's that had to work together to make that happen. Do you honestly think that many people could keep their mouths shut, I think you would have heard of some government offical spilling the beans on his death bed. Have you heard of any private invesigator finding out its conspiracy, nope. Funny how the only one to claim responsibility for the attack is the same one who led the attack on the US embassy bombing, he said to reporters bfore the attack that North Americans are "very easy targets" "You will see the results of this in a very short time". plus considering the twin towers was attacked before by muslim extremist.

Anytime something horrible happens there will always be consiracy theorist saying the government is behind it.
No matter how much facts are presented to a conpiracy theorist it will never change their mind they will just change the story to make it fit. They will never admit when they are wrong and they never seek the truth. They dont care how many people they hurt when they spew thier idiotic nonsense. So put up or shut up!!



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by ussoldier
 

No certifications or degrees? Really?


And bin Laden denied having anything to do with the attacks on more than one occasion. Real research on your part would've revealed that. I would suggest actually knowing something about 9/11 other than it happened before making such posts.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 09:31 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

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