Gay Marriage. I am honestly confused

Originally posted by ronnieray123

IF YOU ARE GAY THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG INSIDE YOUR HEAD... IT IS NOT WORKING AS INTENDED.......this does not mean you are bad, this does not mean you are evil. It does mean you are biologically inferior . Just because this makes you angry, does not mean it is not true. To say different is like a blind guy telling someone he is a perfect specimen of a human being,
I feel empathy for gays the same way I do for any other handicap person, and as you can see from your supporters , they do as well.

So..... you won't accept my offer???? Hmmmm.

You are biologically inferior. It is obvious, due to your lack of spelling and grammar skills, that you are handicapped mentally. So why should anyone even listen to you? I do feel sorry for you, though.

reply to post by kaylaluv


Tooth and nail comes to mind when I read your words!



You know, something came into my mind on this topic while I was considering homosexuality today and I think I understand a possible logic behind God calling homosexuality an abomination etc.

(I know this is not normally a common occurance for most people to ponder on such things!)

But all things in religion is supposed to be logical. So I was thinking on how I have always believed that the procreation thing was to keep the nation (a Jewish nation) strong enough to always fight their enemies... demographics at work.

And that homosexuality can have the potential to threaten a strong society through a birth rate decline when widespread within that society.

But I could not really decide upon why such a big sin... sin is sin is sin in religion, there are greater and lesser but one has to ponder why homosexuality was considered one of the greatest sins, up there with someone who murders.

But then I thought, you know, religious laws were given to a 'nation' of people. Therefore, should homosexuality be accepted as 'normal' and a birth rate decline happen to this nation of people, then the enemies of said nation could essentially overpower and destroy that 'nation'.

Therefore, homosexuality could be seen as up there with murder, if it has the potential of destroying (or contributing to the destruction of) an entire nation should it be accepted as a normal state above a couple who procreates.

And these laws were given to religious people, in the beginning Judaism was only for Jews, not everyone... obviously. Basically it was a law given to a nation ruled by a theocratic government.

So, in effect, it should not matter what people do who are devoid of a theocratic nation, because it effects not my religion, nor my 'nation' of people.

It was just a thought! Might be dumb but it sounded good at the time!

OP you say: " Marriage is a religious institution. "
It doesn't have to be.
Your religion might not allow for it but it doesn't make it right.
Your religions want to keep you from being free thinkers. and want you to be sheep as usall.
If your religion won't allow you to be who you are, maybe you need a break from the chains of your religion.

When my wife and I got married, religion had nothing to do with it. We were in LOVE.
We had the Mayor of the town marry us.
We just had our own ideas , and we weren't godless either. religion just had nothing to do with who we were and who I 'm now since my wife passed away in 2010, I'm now a widower of 2 daughters and if one or both came to me and said they wanted to marry another girl , who am I to say no.

Who are you to tell someone you don't know how to live, and who to LOVE and be with in their lives?

It's called "" LOVE "" and that's what matters.

If you bigots out there that think it's wrong for gays and lesibians to marry, good luck with that, but maybe someone in your family or kids or grandchildren might want to marry the same sex. then what? and are you going to banish them from your lives??

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Precisely, laws denying freedom of sexual expression and a means of controlling their own reproduction thereby limit the availablity of cannon-fodder. God has nothing to do with it of course, men just said that he said that in order to enforce that doctrine through fear. From what I can gather, God neither cares nor is interested in what lovers do, so long as they do what they do with love. Men set laws because they need armies, and therefore care about anything that prevents the replenishment of those armies.

The Greeks were always prohibiting homosexuality and sodomy, in times of conflict or famine, and then encouraging it, in times of peace. Women were similarly constrained, and abortifacient usage was similarly forbidden during periods of conflict. Nor were women, according to law, allowed to remain unmarried once they reached sexual maturity, and if their husband died, then they were forced to remarry at the earliest opportunity. To do otherwise, was also defined as a sin and punishable by the 'law'.

Nothing whatsoever do with what god does and doesn't think is an 'abomination'. Such terminology is just the spin that the Jews used to control the ignorant and superstitious to follow their cause. Much like that used later in the Crusades. And, it still works. The more people you can get to board your wagon, the more laws you need in order to homogenise those people to your aims, and when dealing with ignorance and superstition, the more fear of god that you have to inject in order to guarantee their compliance. I doubt that God has ever communicated anything to anyone on the rights and wrongs of homosexuality, and if God did, it would probably more along the lines of 'why are you worrying so much about what other people are doing, instead of focusing on what you should be doing?'

Petty-minded prying has been the downfall of many of the oppressed through-out history and god has more often than not been used as the scape-goat to justify it. There is nothing quite like a sense of moral superiority to get people to murder their neighbours.

I was raised Catholic, and I remember being a little kid and wanting to get married and have it in a big fancy church, and then later get a house and have 2 kids.

After puberty hit, I had trouble understanding my sexuality. I simply didn't have the role models to understand what was going on with me. My mom cried when I told her I was gay, and told me it was just a phase, my dad wanted to hear nothing of it, so I was left so depressed that I wanted to just kill myself. Luckily I never succeeded, despite one attempt.

Luckily, in college I was able to better discover myself. People were more open-minded and accepting than in the small town in Wisconsin where I grew up in, where I had to constantly feel bad about myself because of the enormously ignorant insult F*****. Anyway, at that point I just wanted to find someone to love with all my heart and show I cared about them, and have them love me back and show they cared. I wanted to fill that hole up that was inside me, that need to be loved, which I felt was missing in my life.

Much time passed, and now I'm 27. I've since learned to love myself and accept myself. Although it's still hard to admit sometimes I'm gay to people because I'm often afraid of how they'll perceive and judge me for being different. Luckily many people in the city where I live are accepting and open about it. I've also since learned that the God I believe in doesn't have to be the Christian God that is written in the Bible that killed all those people and punished all those sinners. No, my God is a loving God. He is made up of pure love, and he is in all of us because we all have the potential to Love one another. So it is possible to believe in God and be gay.

Do I want to still get married. Absolutely! I think I have just as much of a right to the pursuit of happiness as any straight person. That might be considered an oxymoron for some because many people believe when you get married that's when it goes downhill. I think that will not be the case for me, and I want to have a loving committed relationship, and I want to one day for the both of us adopt kids and raise them together and teach them them to be loving and intelligent and caring individuals.

I think it's so horrid when people believe that gay people shouldn't be allowed to adopt or get married. Or even just as bad when it's okay for two women to do it, but not two men. It's just plain ignorant, and I can't wait for the day when all of that is in the past when loving a man or a woman doesn't matter. Where people could care about each other, and love each other, and not have to fear for it. That would be my wish.

As I read people's stories in this thread ...no human being with any empathy could not be moved...

Now, I know what I'm about to say is going to be a "challenging" subject to discuss...but I think it is actually at the heart of the matter more then people are allowed to discuss....and I hope the Mods will allow me to make my point staying in the T&C's the best I can.

I have been pretty upfront in this thread with my experience with a gay/bi-sexual ex....but the whole "anal sex" things completely offends me.....I feel completely grossed out I ever went there...violated and hurt. The anus is better then a vagina? I really have tried to understand why men would want to have the sensation of penetration...it's a beautiful thing when your a girl.

More then that though...getting it in the butt is a metaphor for being "assulted" when we talk about other subjects .It's painful, dirty, can be dangerous and cause you to wear diapers in old age....I just find it very wierd that we want to convince people that using a part of our bodies meant to get rid of poop for sexual pleasure is "normal"....I honestly believe there is an agenda here bigger then we understand.....

reply to post by MountainLaurel


As a woman I can completely relate. It's isn't any fun, back there. But as far as an agenda of back door fun?

There is a happy place in there for men, and they achieve what is the equivalent of a vaginal organism. Why God put it there is a good question for the religious.

But the same thing goes for all of us, as our entertainment centers and our sewage systems are both located between our legs and share doorways!

Originally posted by MountainLaurel

I have been pretty upfront in this thread with my experience with a gay/bi-sexual ex....but the whole "anal sex" things completely offends me.....I feel completely grossed out I ever went there...violated and hurt.

Many hetero couples have anal sex. And yes - - even hetero males who's female partner use an anal "appliance".

Not all gay men have anal sex. Some agree with those who think it is only for waste removal.

I'm definitely no expert on male gay sex - - - but from knowledge I've gathered - - there is a lot less anal sex then one might believe. There are other ways - - ya know.

Why should I feel threatened by Gays or Gay Marriage? I am as ALPHA A MALE AS EXISTS...I LOVE WOMEN!
Still...I live in Mass and we have Legal Gay Marriage and contrary to popular belief...the Sun still came up the next morning! LOL!

I have always found that the Men and Women who protest the LOUDEST about Gay Marriage are quite possibly the most unattractive people on Earth...just an observation. I am EXTREMELY SECURE WITH MY SEXUALITY! I find it extremely distasteful that some people are just NOT THAT SECURE WITH THEIR OWN! What the Hell do I care if Gay People get Married? It has NOTHING to do with me.

I have had Women tell me if I was Born Female...I probably would have been born a LESBIAN as I love everything about women...their Quirks, their Beauty, their inner strength and I KNOW WHO AND WHAT I AM. What I am not is a person who for my own selfish purpose would deny something that I as a Person have a Right to DO...that is LOVE WHO I WISH AND MARRY WHO I CHOOSE!

We are all FEMALE IN THE WOMB UNTIL OUR GENETICS determine the release of a Hormone Here or there and then you get a Boy or Girl or BOTH or a Boy or Girl with Genetic Tendencies to be attracted to the same sex or even both sexes. This is a FACT OF BIOLOGY AND GENETICS. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A GOD OR RELIGION!

As a TRUE ALPHA MALE...I am Genetically Driven to PROTECT THE GROUP OR THE WEAK, OLD, SICK...AND in my THIRD JOB...I do this on a GLOBAL SCALE. I have worked with Gay Soldiers in the Field and all I care about is THAT THEY DO THEIR JOB! This comes from a Highly Trained Man of Peace who is CAPABLE OF EXTREME VIOLENT ACTS. If you ever come across a Man who says he is ALPHA...but at the same time professes is HATRED FOR GAYS...he is not only NOT ALPHA but he is AFRAID! AFRAID OF THE UNKNOWN! AFRAID that a person whether Male or Female who is GAY will some how endanger him or his MENTAL STABILITY! LOL!

There are very few things I fear...and I could be considered FEARLESS with the exception that I FEAR that a person such as I have described...will HURT ANOTHER PERSON BECAUSE HE IS AFRAID OF THEIR HOMOSEXUALITY! My other Fear is an INABILITY TO PROTECT MY GIRL FROM A FORCE OF NATURE. I had two dreams in which a Rouge wave in one was coming in and the other a Tornado and even though I am a LUCID DREAMER no matter how much I scream for her to come with me...she ignores my warning and Both the Tornado in one dream and the Rouge wave in another are coming and I wake myself. BOTH OF THESE EVENTS HAVE OCCURRED AND THE TORNADO WAS IN OUR BACK YARD...I SCREAMED...SHE IGNORED...I THROUGH HER OVER MY SHOULDER AND RAN DOWN INTO THE BASEMENT. The Rouge Wave hit my Father and myself in a set of two in Ft. Lauderdale. I am a Diver and can swim 5 Miles in Ocean Swells...these two waves CRUSHED US against the Coral Bottom. The second one hit and pushed us up to the road...we survived and spent 30 Minutes helping people and KIDS get back to shore as it swept some people out. My Girl is a Diver also...after the TORNADO...she pays much more attention...but I can tell you this...if she witnessed some Man berating a Gay Male or Woman...she would KNOCK HIM OUT! I am much more forgiving. But when I witnessed self anointed PEOPLE OF GOD...CHRISTIANS...SWEARING AND THROWING STONES AND DEBRIS AT A GAY COUPLE that chose to be Married outside at a Gazebo a few towns over from mine...I ran from my car and Yelled...NEXT PERSON WHO THROWS SOMETHING BETTER THROW IT AT ME! I am very imposing and Muscular. All these People of GOD who found two tiny lithe LESBIANS so easy a target as to actually be so NON-CHRISTIAN as to throw ROCKS at two people on their WEDDING DAY...SHOWED ME WHAT COWARDS THEY ACTUALLY WERE! I YELLED...I'M GAY! THROW SOMETHING! No on threw or said a word! I yelled...you VICIOUS SCUM only fight when you have nothing to be frightened of...BUT WHERE IS YOUR MORAL OUTRAGE NOW!? WHERE IS YOUR CONVICTION YOU ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING!? I WILL TELL YOU WHERE IT IS...IT IS WITH THE URINE AND FECES IN YOUR UNDERWEAR! YOU MAKE ME SICK! YOU ARE SO FAR AWAY FROM YOUR GOD RIGHT NOW THAT I KNOW YOU WILL PAY FOR THIS WHEN YOU ARE JUDGED! And I walked away. So easy for a MOB of Righteous Asses to try to hurt two little Girls but when confronted with REAL RISK AND POSSIBILITY OF PAIN AND INJURY...it would seem that they were not so COMMITTED TO THEIR CAUSE AFTER ALL! COWARDICE! And Mob Mentality...goes hand in hand. Not ONE WORD FROM THEM...NOT ONE! They are not RIGHTEOUS...THEY ARE CRIMINAL COWARDS! Split Infinity

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Religon didnt support the Gay and lesbian definition or name,remember its just a name,so these small special interest groups went to the state for support through the legal system based on humanitarian grounds,then they capitalised these courtroom victories into a legal platform from which to demand marriage from the state NOT the church,knowing full well that only a toe-hold and some money and gay friends ih high places would ensure their empowerment.

They force their way into a nich society created to ensure a healthy nationwide birth rate,marriage kept people together for a longer more committed time period and allowed a better environment for bigger families to proseper.The Church and state both knew this was critical to growth and there fore a priority because growth is strength.Gay groups use the benefits of the state fiscally and the church morally to screw heterosexual couples out of benefits of the home and heart designed to foster a healthy community and country.Marriage was something all of society agreed upon in the name of hetero-sexual couples having and being able to provide for--- children----,not gay parents who want tax writeoffs and the right to adopt children borne of heterosexual parents,or born of a laboratory or a pimped out surrogate mother??Love them--the children-- from afar like a hetero who chooses not to reproduce --if you cant make them the natural way there are millions of kids who need help from afar.Dont pervert nature with artificially catalysed births--that is selfish and wrond to do with human lives---love kids from afar if you are gay there is NO REASON for you to be married other than to use laws designed within and around marriage --marriage created and intended to foster healthy child birth in a nation to gain adoptive or parenting rights in order to pervert nature and or to also use marriage for societal and fiscal gain or leverage in the eyes of the state .I am not saying a gay lifestyle perverts nature--that is natural if you choose it ,but gays cant have ,hold,or lord over children born of heterosexual parents that is a perversion of nature,they may love them as much as anyone else from afar as a hetero who chooses to not reproduce must also do.
I support the rights of small special interest groups but NEVER at the cost of my nation or its birthrate---but if I say this aloud in public ten bleeding heart HETEROSEXUAL people will jump on the gay bandwagon,so we have a long way to go to re-establish what I believe is the right path,an abolition of any and all concepts of gay marriage on both a state and a church level,in the name of the children our country and world needs to keep things growing and prospering.I also support any small special interest groups who are willing to begin to build themselves an institution like marriage to fulfill their personal desires,but there is no way ever that marriage and gays will fit,the concept of marriage was never designed for Gays,they need to make up their own concept just as they made up their own little special interest club or group,no harm no foul,just stay off the hetero-sexual bandwagon,build your own institutions within the church and state,dont create your own little named and defined small special interest group and surround it with laws you have bastardised,and then force your way down the majoritys throats,do the work from the groundfloor up like hetero-sexuals had to and you will find you make progress,you will also find allys like myself who will defend your hard work but not your attempts to pretend you arent gay by bending laws,but if these small special interest groups continue to push into areas created and designed for heterosexual couples to be able to reproduce children effectively in my country and I believe many people will continue to make it both legally and morally difficult for these groups to do continue to have a voice legally or morally.

In a nutshell the gays paid off the state with taxes and legal victories,and then bribed the church using the states complicity.No one on either side really accepts things as they are the state doesnt really and nor does the church.But lawyers can work wonders cant they??Especially if the church and the state doesnt mobilise people to fight back TO PROTECT THE INSTITUTION THEY CREATED.

Yes the greatest irony is how and why marriage was created,FOR THE CHILDREN and how it has been perverted to support people who cannot have their own children by proxy,they actually strive to make parenthood a legality,ha ha.If you are gay you are like a hetero who chooses to not have kids,you have to love them from afar,or find a hetero partner and adopt,not pervert nature.

I support Gay groups who support my countrys healthy future and respect laws and why they were created and who they were created to protect.kids.






.

Originally posted by one4all

Yes the greatest irony is how and why marriage was created,FOR THE CHILDREN and how it has been perverted to support people who cannot have their own children by proxy,they actually strive to make parenthood a legality,ha ha.

What a crock. Do you still drive a horse and buggy too?

Marriage is a contract. Marriage is NOT just about having children.

Besides - - when a Fundy Christian hetero couple uses In vitro fertilization - - - that's OK.

Excuses - excuses - excuses - excuses.

reply to post by Annee


Annee untill you have cleaned..one of these appliances as you call them....you can't really know your "heart"...as always I respect you......but no one will ever convince me this "stuff" is normal.......maybe with all the drugs and crap we absorb...it is becoming more common...that I believe......and it makes me sad....

Originally posted by MountainLaurel
As I read people's stories in this thread ...no human being with any empathy could not be moved...

Now, I know what I'm about to say is going to be a "challenging" subject to discuss...but I think it is actually at the heart of the matter more then people are allowed to discuss....and I hope the Mods will allow me to make my point staying in the T&C's the best I can.

I have been pretty upfront in this thread with my experience with a gay/bi-sexual ex....but the whole "anal sex" things completely offends me.....I feel completely grossed out I ever went there...violated and hurt. The anus is better then a vagina? I really have tried to understand why men would want to have the sensation of penetration...it's a beautiful thing when your a girl.

More then that though...getting it in the butt is a metaphor for being "assulted" when we talk about other subjects .It's painful, dirty, can be dangerous and cause you to wear diapers in old age....I just find it very wierd that we want to convince people that using a part of our bodies meant to get rid of poop for sexual pleasure is "normal"....I honestly believe there is an agenda here bigger then we understand.....

Who are you to say what is "normal" when it comes to what floats people's boat? There are heterosexuals who have all kinds of fetishes. Foot fetishes, balloon fetishes, doll fetishes, "golden showers", bondage, S & M, etc, etc., etc. There are so many people that have these types of fetishes, that someone with no fetishes is actually not "normal" - in that, they are in the minority. What offends you may turn someone else on. What turns you on may offend someone else. The point is, as long as it involves consenting adults, who cares and whose business is it? It's not my business what you like your lover to do to you, and it's not your business what I like. It's not either of our business what two gay people do in the privacy of their own bedroom. But they shouldn't have to hide that they are a couple, just like you are I shouldn't have to hide our significant others.

Originally posted by MountainLaurel
I really have tried to understand why men would want to have the sensation of penetration...it's a beautiful thing when your a girl.

Did you know that some heterosexual women don't really like penetration? It doesn't turn them on as much as "other" stimulation. There are a million different variances of individual turn-ons. Don't try to understand what turns different people on. Just pay attention to your own turn-ons.

Originally posted by MountainLaurel
reply to post by Annee

 

Annee untill you have cleaned..one of these appliances as you call them....you can't really know your "heart"...as always I respect you......but no one will ever convince me this "stuff" is normal.......maybe with all the drugs and crap we absorb...it is becoming more common...that I believe......and it makes me sad....]

What? Cleaned one of these appliances? What the Hell does that have to do with knowing my heart? BTW - - special hygienic cleaners are available.

Drugs? All forms of sexual pleasure (yes for some it is pleasure) have always been part of the human (and other mammals) normal behavior.

The only thing really abnormal is self-righteous beliefs - - such as religion - - interfering in natural behavior.

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You and everyone else needs to get out of their bedroom.

They are just PEOPLE. You and everyone needs to see gays as PEOPLE - - just PEOPLE.

Should we demand that every heterosexual publicly declare every sexual deviant - - - that isn't missionary position?

I'm sorry - - but this really annoys me.

Here are some videos from: WAUnitedForMarriage

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

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Here is an article about NOM (National Organization for Marriage - - created for one purpose and one purpose only. Stop gay marriage).

$250,000 of HATE - - - no different then the KKK in my opinion.

NOM Gives $250,000 To Gay Marriage Foes In Maine The National Organization for Marriage (NOM) has donated $250,000 to the campaign that opposes Maine's referendum seeking to legalize gay marriage. features.rr.com...

I understood I ran the risk of the reactions I have recieved from my last post......and all I can say is I spoke the truth from my perspective.....some want to beat me up for "intruding" on other people's bedrooms....the point I'm making is this stuff has "invaded" my bedroom...and it hurt me.....

Now if that makes me a self rightous "witch" so be it.....I believe myself to be open minded and sexual....I support equal rights for all people in committed relationships....but I have also watched a change in society that alarms me....and I think that "anything goes" sexually is a complex subject......people are going to do what they are going to do.....and really I am all about honesty when it comes to sharing your body with another...and from there everyone can determine thier needs and boundries.....

Originally posted by MountainLaurel
I understood I ran the risk of the reactions I have recieved from my last post......and all I can say is I spoke the truth from my perspective.....some want to beat me up for "intruding" on other people's bedrooms....the point I'm making is this stuff has "invaded" my bedroom...and it hurt me.....

Now if that makes me a self rightous "witch" so be it.....I believe myself to be open minded and sexual....I support equal rights for all people in committed relationships....but I have also watched a change in society that alarms me....and I think that "anything goes" sexually is a complex subject......people are going to do what they are going to do.....and really I am all about honesty when it comes to sharing your body with another...and from there everyone can determine thier needs and boundries.....

That's not the point you were making. The point you were making was that gay sex is abnormal. I'm sorry you had a bad personal experience, but you should not blame the whole gay population for your experience. As a matter of fact, it was because of attitudes of people like you that caused a lot of gay men to "pretend" they were straight - have heterosexual relationships -- because they were afraid of the repercussions of being who they truly are.

I don't know what this "change in society" is you are referring to, but I don't think it can be blamed on the gay population. Maybe you don't like that gays are starting to come out more, that gays are demanding to be a part of our society - not outcasts, as they have been for hundreds of years. If that's what alarms you, then I'm afraid you're going to have to get over it. The world will continue to turn, and the next couple of generations won't even know what the big deal was about.

reply to post by kaylaluv


I have really tried in this thread and in my personal life "to get over it"....and I find your lack of consideration for other's feelings hurtful...it is the "fault" of straight people that gay people lie and cheat? So let me get this "straight" ha ha.....the sexual desires that someone feels that in today's world THEY are ashamed of gives them permission to ruin other people's lives?

I don't buy the argument at all that gay people are "shamed" into being reckless and selfish...and the gay people I have known have pretty healthy self esteems....so NO....I don't buy it...the kids in my life I influence will be taught to be kind and tolerate of others...but no damm way will I ever tell them being gay is natural.....