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Gay Marriage. I am honestly confused

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posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 


She is never interested in a two way conversation, just wants to berate people who disagree with her.

Like all liberals do.




posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by EvilSadamClone
 


I think Spiramirablis and Biliverden are both liberals, or at the very least lean that way, and they rarely ever berate me - usually only when I've really got it coming to me. So painting all liberals with that same brush is a pretty broad stroke.

I may go sit in the corner and sulk now, though, since some of these folks (liberals of perhaps a more "progressive" persuasion) are ignoring me and lashing out without even listening to what I've got to say. They're hurtin' my wittle feelings!




edit on 2012/7/29 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


Sometimes broad strokes are correct.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 11:14 AM
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reply to post by EvilSadamClone
 


But it ALWAYS makes a mess, not just sometimes.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


Not when you use a roller and tape the windows for that fine edge.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by EvilSadamClone
reply to post by nenothtu
 


Not when you use a roller and tape the windows for that fine edge.



There ya go - mask what you don't want to be painted, and slap away with the brush!

Er... roll away with the roller, I mean...



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by quietlearner
 


To me, if they had a religion which stated marriage was between two people regardless of sex, then of course under the law the religious beleif would be protected and the marriages could not be opposed.

the point is there is no religion which states this in their Holy Books.

So I see more logic in fighting for equal rights under the law without marriage.


Christianity does.... depending on who's doing the interpreting

mccchurch.org...



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by quietlearner
reply to post by OpinionatedB
 


there are already "christian" churches that marry gay couples
by allowing gay couples to marry they are no longer christian but a new version, an offshoot


No, they're very much Christian. Probably more so than the extremist, fundamentalist evangelical bunch is



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by Biliverdin
 


You are quite obviously twisting my words for them to mean whatever you wish them to mean, relying upon slang to support your stance, rather than the actual formal definition of the word being discussed. What is 'quite obvious' to you, is unsupported with fact, and unsupported with the formal definition of the word.

Your hatred of all things Arab has been clearly expressed, and your ignorance of the english language shown quite clearly, you have an agenda, one which is clearly hatred of me.

Therefore, as my point has been clearly shown, and expressed in no uncertain terms, I find no further reason to continue a discussion which is redundant. Have a good day.

Also, point to add. Once, when I was a young child, I heard the word B i t c h used against someone in a derogatory manner, and I, being young, once repeated the word when I was angry at someone. Well, my father heard me...lol... and in no uncertain terms told me this behavior was unacceptable. (I believe that was a time I got a belt for bad behavior!) He then went further, and wrote down every single American cuss word (or word that is used as a cuss word) and made me look up in the dictionary every single one, and write every single word and its proper definition 100 times... (lol... not easy I tell you!)

He went further than that, and made me use every single formal definition in a sentence speaking against someone in a derogatory manner and proceeded to ask a question; "Now does that really make any sense?" I said no, because of course it does really sound ignorant when used that way...

and that is the story to how I learned to use proper english instead of slang! And believe me when I say it was a lesson I never forgot! That was the only, and last time in my life I used a cuss word out of context.

So, you may accuse me of derogatory language if I say someone is no better than feces, or if I say someones parentage is in question when I am angry (then for me this means the shaytan definitely took part in their conception!) then it is most definitely a derogatory remark. But simply using an english word in context is not. It is all in how it is being used, and I quite clearly used that one as a statement of fact, and not something derogatory against anyone.
edit on 29-7-2012 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 



Hiya, Spiramirablis! Long time no argue with!


it has been a while - and I'm not sure we're going to argue now

it's a shame really :-)

and here's why:

I spent most of the day (well, the part where I wasn't snoring and rattling windows) wrestling with the idea of gay marriage, and why on Earth I have any opposition to it.


It's because it violates my basic philosophy of politics. Not society, not sexuality, not who is or is not "good people", but politics.


They do, and always have had, the same rights as I do. That right involves, in the case of interpersonal relationships, snagging someone special, and setting up house. Government approval is not necessary, or even desirable in my case. Their case may be different - it may BE desirable to involve the government in their personal lives to them. If that's the case, more power to them. Go for it, Just don't claim it is a "right", because it's not. It's not a "right" for anyone, myself included.


You are not fighting for equal rights, you are fighting for equal privileges, and that's a concept I can get behind.

You already have equal rights.

then you said this later - in a separate post:

That's for everyone, across the board. It's not government business, and neither gays nor straights should have to seek governmental permission to marry. Since Straights ARE availing themselves of that option, gays should be allowed to as well. That's all part and parcel of that equality under the law that I keep harping on about.

Trust me - I've been looking for an angle :-)

The only fight we might have after any of that is about our views on government - but this isn't the thread for that. I don't see it the same way you do - but I don't absolutely disagree either

Someplace in this thread you correctly identified me as being somewhat leftier than you are :-) so let's not open that particular can of worms here and now

You obviously support freedom for everyone - you don't discriminate. In my political and/or philosophical hope chest I might place a little wish that you would view government differently in as much as - this is the world we live in. In order for any of us to achieve the kind of equality we're looking for we have to work within the system we have now. You want that system to change - in a big way. I want changes too - but we don't have the same basic ideas on that. We could be allies otherwise

Interesting - isn't it? So close and yet so far? This is why I like these kinds of conversations - you begin to see that it comes down to semantics and the architecture of our personal philosophies. Sometimes we can only see the world from where we sit - but we discover later that the world looks pretty much the same to each of us after all

Sorry neno - hope you weren't looking forward to a cage match :-)

I'm sure we'll meet again in another thread where dismantling the government is up for discussion - I'll wear my shiniest armor and give you your moneys worth

Until then - it's been a pleasure



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 


lol... I have to say I do like you!
Even if we may disagree on some things....



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by EvilSadamClone
 




She is never interested in a two way conversation, just wants to berate people who disagree with her.


We're all guilty of that from time to time - I do it too

She believes in her cause - and we're on the same side in this

The Conservatives give as good as they get Sadam - hard to say where it all starts really

or - do you disagree?

:-)



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by OpinionatedB
 


Good

Now that we're friends - maybe you'll answer the question I asked when I first jumped into this thread

:-)



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 


lol.... would you mind repeating it then? I am sorry, I must have missed it!



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by OpinionatedB
 


happily :-)


I'm going to ask you a direct question

let's see what you do with it

what rights - religious or otherwise - will you be losing if gay people are allowed to marry?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a lot of water under the bridge now - I was asking because initially you were afraid that when the gay community wins in this - it would somehow threaten your existing 'rights' (OK - rights, freedoms - privileges...perks :-) you get the basic idea)

I simply couldn't understand where you were coming from

still don't


edit on 7/29/2012 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)

edit on 7/29/2012 by Spiramirabilis because: issues



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 


No, I don't disagree.

Some people just do far more frequently than others.

personally, i wish it would end period.

It really shouldn't matter how one lives their life, as long as they aren't doing harm.

To some people though, it does matter because for some reason we all have to be the same, think the same, and behave the same.

It's tiresome.

A real conversation should not be a combat or about imposing one views, just a learning experience.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 02:19 PM
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That was the weirdest thing! I just heard my name being yelled, loudly, like some kind of a premonition, or like someone wanted my attention badly, but no one is here but me....no one is outside the house, and no one has called....

I do not know why I am posting here, I came back thinking someone here may have wanted me, but there are no replies I have not discussed or PMed concerning....

so weird... if anyone is talking about me, please U2U me!



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by quietlearner
 


To me, if they had a religion which stated marriage was between two people regardless of sex, then of course under the law the religious beleif would be protected and the marriages could not be opposed.

the point is there is no religion which states this in their Holy Books.

So I see more logic in fighting for equal rights under the law without marriage.


regardless of whether it is stated in holy books, keep in mind that not all faiths/ belief systems HAVE a holy book. i am not jewish, christian or muslim, so the torah, bible and quran are not MY holy books. i respect them as holy books, but that is a distinction that comes with really thinking about your beliefs, their beliefs, and the nature of the words we use. most people never contemplate, they just follow, and that makes a big difference. people are taught to hate, are raised among hate and misunderstanding, and until everyone THINKS about what they believe and WHY they believe it, little will change.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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As far as I am concerned it shouldn't matter if you are gay or lesbian. We should all have the same rights and entitlements regardless of our differences. The church and christianity just needs to get with the times. They are both stuck in the past and the longer this continues the longer gays and lesbians will not be seen as equals by some parts of the church. People just need to grow up and appreciate we all have differences whether it be race, colour, creed or sexuality.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by nenothtu
The progeny of same-sex marriages would in all likelihood not be as fully described as myself by your dictionary definition, but only one of those is worrisome enough to ruin their day - the illegitimate part, in reference to inheritance rights. Luckily, those can be bypassed these days with the proper legal maneuvering.


Absolutely, which is why there is no need to marry, for me. Plus in the UK they ended all tax breaks for married couples...part of that equality thing, therefore those in common-law relationships, such as mine was, were not discriminated against. And now, I have angled myself into a position whereby I don't pay tax at all anyway, which is all the better, now I feel even better since I am not supporting the government financially



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