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Gay Marriage. I am honestly confused

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posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Annee
 


I am leaving God out of it,


I do not think that is possible for you. Pretty sad that you now take this position.


What is considered an adult varies from culture to culture, and society to society, so the term consenting adults, can be subjective by the way.


We are talking legal rights in America. Do not deflect.




posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by OpinionatedB

See, that is what I am talking about.... you literally hate a man who has the ability to convince those who do not agree with gay marriage to vote in favor of it. That is ignorant. And it seems more ignorant to me that you cannot understand him, when he speaks english very clearly. I understand him just fine.


What the hell are you talking about?

Where did I ever use the word Hate?


people who love me are constantly telling me not to speak to them. It's the burden of being logical, I guess.




Considering I am at least one of three who have no interest in what Neno says - - - should indicate something.


Yes, yes it DOES. It most certainly does indicate something! I'll elucidate further on what that "something" is at a later time...



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Annee
 


Read the story in my signature, Coming Home....

I do not run around telling my granddaughter she is a bastard every day,


I have NEVER posted - referred to - or even thought of my grandson as a bastard.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Biliverdin
 


My granddaughter is a bastard, and I have no problem with that, or with her... it seems you have a problem with calling things what they are in reality. I, on the other hand, do not.


No I simply do not use derogatory terms, invented for the sole purpose of belittling people by those who think they are superior. Besides, I am English, and English law states that a Bastard is a child that is not recognised by the father. My son's father does recognise his son. Your laws, religion and opinion, do not apply.

As beautiful as you may consider yourself on the outside, you consistently prove yourself to be very ugly beneath that skin.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by Annee
 


Actually I am, I do not think we can vote morals in this country because no one, not even the christians have them, in my personal opinion. I think if the Christians wanted to take the moral high ground they should have thought of that a very very long time ago.

My voting will always therefore be, according to the constititution, but if I want to understand a thing, then I will try to see it from my own perspective, which is one of a religious person.

I am NOT deflecting, the title of my thread was why, and asking for some understanding on top of a reasoning for a voting stance. The understanding part for me, is going to be trying to ask open and honest questions, from my personal perspective.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:15 AM
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reply to post by Biliverdin
 


How is truth derogatory, just because some people use words in effort to defame another, does not make the word itself bad or evil. Its in the dictionary, look it up... evil is not attached to the definition anywhere. It is a simple truth.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by Annee
 


Someone is injecting religion into a post where it was not found to begin with...

I smell a straw man about to burn...



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by OpinionatedB
 


Yeah uh huh...ummm...whatever you say...dear. A child is a child. That is just a word too. Words are given meaning when spoken in context and with the implication given them by the speaker. And it is a word that is known to be derogatory. If it is just a word then you should perhaps have not got so upset and emotional when I mentioned that Hagar's marriage wasn't legitimate, and therefore her son wasn't. Which obviously, according to English Law he wasn't, he was a bastard. There just a word, isn't it?



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by Biliverdin
 


Someone is injecting religion into a post where it was not found to begin with...

I smell a straw man about to burn...

I wonder how many times I'll be able to make the same reply in the next few hours?

ETA - RE: the stone-throwing - yup, I'm used to it, and have come to expect it. I've never fully expressed my opinion on homosexuality, and probably never will. People hear the first part, and smile and nod vigorously, then they hear the second part, get ticked off, forget the first part altogether, and start chucking rocks and screaming, and that always drowns out the rest.

It's all good, though.




edit on 2012/7/29 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by OpinionatedB

I am NOT deflecting, the title of my thread was why, and asking for some understanding on top of a reasoning for a voting stance. The understanding part for me, is going to be trying to ask open and honest questions, from my personal perspective.


I appreciate the thread and your honest request for learning.

I'm not so sure how much I actually see that in your postings.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by Biliverdin
 


Yet, you can only prove that through wikopedia, not the biblical text.... I used biblical text and proved you wrong..again, another attempt to insult rather than have a conversation and/or discussion about the topic at hand. When I never once said anything that was a lie, or an attempted insult.

A word is just a word, how you see that word is on you, not on the word itself. And the word was never used in a derogatory manner. Trust me, you would have known if it was.

You act like I was pronouncing some kind of anathema upon your child by using a word in the dictionary for a child born out of wedlock. Clearly, that shows your ignorance.
edit on 29-7-2012 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Annee
 


Read my edit to the post you are replying. Then come back and discuss normal, and in whose eyes.


If you can't leave God out of Equal Rights by Law of consenting adults - - - - what is there to discuss?


Just re-read my two posts immediately above. If I keep repeating the same thing, it's only going to cramp my fingers.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Biliverdin
 


Yet, you can only prove that through wikopedia, not the biblical text.... I used biblical text and proved you wrong..again, another attempt to insult rather than have a conversation and/or discussion about the topic at hand. When I never once said anything that was a lie, or an attempted insult.


Not even remotely, the point I was making was that adoption and surrogacy were a legitimate means of having children. I was not attempting to insult the Arab peoples as you seemed to believe, because to me it is not insulting. Whether she was his wife, or not, still makes the child legitimate to the relationship, and to be honest I wasn't even thinking that far ahead to the banishment by Sarah, I was simply referring to the 'giving of Hagar' by his already wife.


Originally posted by OpinionatedB
A word is just a word, how you see that word is on you, not on the word itself. And the word was never used in a derogatory manner. Trust me, you would have known if it was.


That would depend very much upon your cultural experience, to be labelled a bastard is a form of exclusion in many societies and most definately a value judgement. If it is just a word, as you claim, why make the differentiation? It has a very clear meaning of exclusion, otherwise, it would not exist. That is why it doesn't mean anything to me, because it nolonger has that meaning to me, or to my society. The meaning it moot, but clearly you feel that it does have meaning to you. I use it frequently, but not in the way that you do, to make a value judgement.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by Biliverdin
 


Someone is injecting religion into a post where it was not found to begin with...

I smell a straw man about to burn...

I wonder how many times I'll be able to make the same reply in the next few hours?

ETA - RE: the stone-throwing - yup, I'm used to it, and have come to expect it. I've never fully expressed my opinion on homosexuality, and probably never will. People hear the first part, and smile and nod vigorously, then they hear the second part, get ticked off, forget the first part altogether, and start chucking rocks and screaming, and that always drowns out the rest.

It's all good, though.



Now you see, good example here, you I'd call a bastard...


See definition 1, and 2....


bastard (ˈbɑːstəd, ˈbæs-)

— n
1. informal , offensive an obnoxious or despicable person
2. informal , jocular often a person, esp a man: lucky bastard
3. informal something extremely difficult or unpleasant: that job is a real bastard
4. old-fashioned , offensive or a person born of unmarried parents; an illegitimate baby, child, or adult
5. something irregular, abnormal, or inferior
6. a hybrid, esp an accidental or inferior one


dictionary.reference.com...



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by Biliverdin
 


From your link:



bas·tard
   [bas-terd] Show IPA

noun
1.
a person born of unmarried parents; an illegitimate child.



you have only posted the definition according to slang terminology, and it says so right before those definitions you posted..... I rarely use slang when speaking, so that I am not misunderstood. Yet, rather than posting the correct definition, you posted the slang definition....an obvious attempt to spread an untruth concerning the meaning of my words.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by Biliverdin

That would depend very much upon your cultural experience, to be labelled a bastard is a form of exclusion in many societies and most definately a value judgement. If it is just a word, as you claim, why make the differentiation? It has a very clear meaning of exclusion, otherwise, it would not exist. That is why it doesn't mean anything to me, because it nolonger has that meaning to me, or to my society. The meaning it moot, but clearly you feel that it does have meaning to you. I use it frequently, but not in the way that you do, to make a value judgement.



Well, since Annee has decreed that we are only to speak of US laws, the form of exclusion it carries here in the US is legal exclusion - specifically, inheritance law. Since we are discussing legal ramifications of same-sex marriage, again per Annee, then it seems it DOES have some bearing!

Words are just words. They have an inherent meaning, but the additional meaning we impart when we use them OR when we hear them are what is to be found within our OWN hearts - whether dark, glowing, or simply inert. That's why I watch to see how people react to certain words - to see what is really in THEIR hearts.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by OpinionatedB
 


Duh! Because that was the context


ETA...and actually, you clearly missed definition 4...

And how about the etymology, just for good measure...


Origin:
1250–1300; Middle English < Anglo-French bastard, Medieval Latin bastardus (from 11th century), perhaps < Germanic (Ingvaeonic) *bāst-, presumed variant of *bōst- marriage + Old French -ard -ard, taken as signifying the offspring of a polygynous marriage to a woman of lower status, a pagan tradition not sanctioned by the church; compare Old Frisian bost marriage < Germanic *bandstu-, a noun derivative of Indo-European *bhendh- bind; the traditional explanation of Old French bastard as derivative of fils de bast “child of a packsaddle” is doubtful on chronological and geographical grounds



edit on 29-7-2012 by Biliverdin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by nenothtu
That's why I watch to see how people react to certain words - to see what is really in THEIR hearts.




Me too.



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by Annee
 



I'm sorry - - but humor did not help when my polio inflicted mom - - with a full length brace and 2 Kenny Sticks was refused admittance to a restaurant because it might disturb other patrons.

It was not humorous in any way - shape - or form. It was damn insulting.


Annee - there's nothing I can say to that that isn't going to sound condescending - or argumentative

so, how about this - what you just said has nothing to do with what I said

in other words: wtf?

I agree with you that fighting for our rights and freedoms no joking matter

on the other hand...I live for funny - I'll take it over nonsensical tit for tat bickering any time - it just gets so old

I'm also here for the back and forth - how much do I appreciate it when that actually happens?

a bunch

are you up for a conversation that goes two ways Annee - or not so much?



posted on Jul, 29 2012 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by Biliverdin

Now you see, good example here, you I'd call a bastard...


See definition 1, and 2....


bastard (ˈbɑːstəd, ˈbæs-)

— n
1. informal , offensive an obnoxious or despicable person
2. informal , jocular often a person, esp a man: lucky bastard
3. informal something extremely difficult or unpleasant: that job is a real bastard
4. old-fashioned , offensive or a person born of unmarried parents; an illegitimate baby, child, or adult
5. something irregular, abnormal, or inferior
6. a hybrid, esp an accidental or inferior one


dictionary.reference.com...


You wouldn't be the first - no cherry here! The line wraps all the way around the block!
To be honest, I fit all of those definitions to one degree or another, so none of you are remiss to come right out and say it!

I'm called worse, about twice a day, by my room mate, so you're in good company!

Good to see you, Biliverdin. I hope your day is going well.

The progeny of same-sex marriages would in all likelihood not be as fully described as myself by your dictionary definition, but only one of those is worrisome enough to ruin their day - the illegitimate part, in reference to inheritance rights. Luckily, those can be bypassed these days with the proper legal maneuvering.




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