Gay Marriage. I am honestly confused

Originally posted by OpinionatedB

I guess I understand people hate God, and want nothing to do with Him. That is your right...

What God hate are you speaking of exactly?

Did I miss something?

Perhaps it is the behavior of some God believers.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by TKDRL

 

Here in a western country it appears to make little difference to most people. To me personally I do not care I am not going to look at anyone different.

But to me personally I would never do that on purpose to a child. (rape or something being not on purpose) To me it is exceedingly important to only concieve in a marriage bed, it is respectable in the eyes of the community.... it is not the state either I care about... it is really the eyes of God, to me, to give my child legitimacy, is to birth him in all accordance with Gods will.

I guess I understand people hate God, and want nothing to do with Him. That is your right...


This is just soooo soooo soooo extreme.... I have never imagined such extremeism

edit on 27-7-2012 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

What is extreme is YOUR attitude and total lack of understanding of any method or way that is not your own.
You think just because people don't believe in your God, that they "hate God." You think that just because people have no problem with loving each other and not caring about being married to have a child is "soooooo extreme" and you can't even imagine that these people might have their own God, or their own spirituality, or their own love of each other, and love of life.
To have your view is understandable, but to call others who don't have it God haters and extremists really very quite absolutely honestly makes you look to me like one of the most extreme people I've ever seen.

reply to post by Annee


Nah you all are the other end of the spectrum of extremeism.... on one end you have the Wahabbis.... the exact opposite end of the spectrum is this right here....

it is just as extreme as the wahabbis are....just in the opposite direction

Originally posted by thebtheb

That makes it sound like evolution is only based on certain extremely narrow constraints. While on the outside, it may appear that way, I doubt you or anyone fully appreciates or is capable of telling us what it is nature intends, especially since we are very unlike other animals and manipulate nature. If we didn't manipulate nature, and as a result be living in a society that functions beyond "survival of the fittest," a ton of people would already be dead.

I don't think nature "intends" anything at all, any more than a computer has intentions. It just works in a certain way, and we can observe the way it works, and extrapolate results from those observations. You are correct, however, in the assessment that our meddling with nature has had an effect on society, as well as the species. I believe that overall effect has been detrimental, perhaps you don't. For example, people are living longer in general now, and a lot of illnesses that would not be a problem are reaching high proportions because they would formerly have killed the host. Now, the host survives, and is able to more efficiently spread whatever susceptibility he or she may have into the gene pool, weakening the species overall. That's fine as long as we are able to maintain the technology, but if it ever comes down, the species may very well follow it, since they are no longer suited to living without it.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by Annee

 

Nah you all are the other end of the spectrum of extremeism.... on one end you have the Wahabbis.... the exact opposite end of the spectrum is this right here....

it is just as extreme as the wahabbis are....just in the opposite direction

HAH!, And you don't define yourself as extreme. Hilarious.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


The way I look at being a parent, it is your job to prepare that child to live in the real world. To teach them how to resolve conflict, deal with the struggles, and be a good person above all. I am not a parent, but I had raised my nieces for some years. I taught them self respect, self defense, respect for others, basic survival skills, and critical thinking.

Your job as a parent will be shown, if your kids can function as independant people when they grow up. Doesn't matter legitimate, illegitimate, raised by straight or gay people. If they can survive the world as an independant person, the parent or parents have done good by them.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by thebtheb

That makes it sound like evolution is only based on certain extremely narrow constraints. While on the outside, it may appear that way, I doubt you or anyone fully appreciates or is capable of telling us what it is nature intends, especially since we are very unlike other animals and manipulate nature. If we didn't manipulate nature, and as a result be living in a society that functions beyond "survival of the fittest," a ton of people would already be dead.

I don't think nature "intends" anything at all, any more than a computer has intentions. It just works in a certain way, and we can observe the way it works, and extrapolate results from those observations. You are correct, however, in the assessment that our meddling with nature has had an effect on society, as well as the species. I believe that overall effect has been detrimental, perhaps you don't. For example, people are living longer in general now, and a lot of illnesses that would not be a problem are reaching high proportions because they would formerly have killed the host. Now, the host survives, and is able to more efficiently spread whatever susceptibility he or she may have into the gene pool, weakening the species overall. That's fine as long as we are able to maintain the technology, but if it ever comes down, the species may very well follow it, since they are no longer suited to living without it.

I just don't think nature's sole objective is to "survive." I think there's a lot more to nature and existence than that. Once you introduce a conscious, self-aware animal into this planet, us, it changes the game completely. That in itself is natural, since we are of nature to begin with. As Terrence McKenna said though, we are not against nature, we are the cutting edge of it. It's not a matter of survival now, it's a matter of evolution of consciousness, as far as I'm concerned anyway.

Wow!
(beezzer yawns, just waking up)
I thought this was all settled hours ago?

This goes (I guess) with what I was saying pages ago. It's not enough to acknowledge, this lifestyle has to be accepted.

(I need more tea)

reply to post by beezzer


The only time a debate ever ends, is if it is a timed debate

reply to post by thebtheb


Wahabbis hate everything to do with God and His people.....

You all hate everything to do with God and his people....

you both have an exact opposite manner of showing it.... but it is very clear in both...

In my life I love God, I love and respect my children and have raised them well....I have helped to raise my grandchild and I am very close to her.....I have lived my life with honor and morals, and though I have not always done the 'right' things I have done my very best....

but every step has been in a manner that God wanted.


I have taught my children our beliefs, and allowed them to choose their will, I have done everything I could and should in life as best I could....

but I have never spent a day of it without prayer, and without loving God,


If I am an extremist because I have faith, then so be it.... but at least my extreme is from love, and not hate such as the Wahabbis and you all.

reply to post by beezzer


make me a tea while your at it....please


and I have changed my mind, this is something I cannot support. They are trying to redefine what is legitimacy... I cannot do this.... sorry beez....

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by thebtheb

 

Wahabbis hate everything to do with God and His people.....

You all hate everything to do with God and his people....

you both have an exact opposite manner of showing it.... but it is very clear in both...

In my life I love God, I love and respect my children and have raised them well....I have helped to raise my grandchild and I am very close to her.....I have lived my life with honor and morals, and though I have not always done the 'right' things I have done my very best....

but every step has been in a manner that God wanted.


I have taught my children our beliefs, and allowed them to choose their will, I have done everything I could and should in life as best I could....

but I have never spent a day of it without prayer, and without loving God,


If I am an extremist because I have faith, then so be it.... but at least my extreme is from love, and not hate such as the Wahabbis and you all.

You never even asked me about my God. Again, because I have a spirituality, a God that you don't, you say I hate God and everything to do with God. If you can't see how ignorant that attitude is, then clearly you've been stuck in your own beliefs for so long, and to such extremism, that you are now defining anyone else who doesn't believe them as God haters. Again, that's the most extreme thing I've EVER heard from anyone in any kind of fundamentalist attitude ever.

So from here on in, there really is no point in talking with you. Have a good one.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Wait what? So what you are really saying, is that anyone that doesn't believe as you do, hates god? Am I reading that right?

Originally posted by thebtheb

I just don't think nature's sole objective is to "survive." I think there's a lot more to nature and existence than that. Once you introduce a conscious, self-aware animal into this planet, us, it changes the game completely. That in itself is natural, since we are of nature to begin with. As Terrence McKenna said though, we are not against nature, we are the cutting edge of it. It's not a matter of survival now, it's a matter of evolution of consciousness, as far as I'm concerned anyway.

I don't think that nature has any objective, it just "is" - it exists and functions, but nature itself doesn't think, plan, or design. Would what you say here not make humans "super natural", i.e. "above nature" or "beyond nature"?

I'm sure most humans would like to think they are,but I'm not at all convinced that they actually ARE above nature.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by OpinionatedB

 

Wait what? So what you are really saying, is that anyone that doesn't believe as you do, hates god? Am I reading that right?

I think we are dealing with someone who has no other reference point whatsoever than her religion. And considering that, it would certainly all be mind blowing to her.

Originally posted by OpinionatedB
reply to post by beezzer

 

make me a tea while your at it....please

and I have changed my mind, this is something I cannot support. They are trying to redefine what is legitimacy... I cannot do this.... sorry beez....

edit on 27-7-2012 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)

No need to apologise. . .
(pouring you a cup of English Breakfast blend)

There is a difference between acknowledging and endorsing. You can acknowledge the legality while still standing fast and not accepting that the lifestyle is appropiate.

Now if the question is determining the legality of the lifestyle choice, it brings to fore the ability to self determine as an adult.

What freedoms should be extended?

To what point are we (as adults) allowed to live witin the bounds of social moral constraints?

reply to post by beezzer


what do you mean?

Are you saying having social morals is wrong? or having religious morals is wrong? I am unclear on the question.

Meh, this thread needs more Elton John!

I just loves me some Crocodile rock!

When your feet just can't sit still. I never knew me a better time and i guess I never will.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Having read your story...."Coming Home" I am quite sure you have no ill-will, and infact Love for children born out of wed-lock.....

Really alot of the debate here seems to be about the "definitions" of certain words, and what thier meanings should be...and people have "tweaked" definitions of words many times....look at the word "Gay" for example...it has at least 3 very different meanings I can think of, depending on who you ask.