Can the rapture happen today, ? any time ?

I changed my mind. Enjoy the ride.

Originally posted by AlreadyGone

In Chapter 7, who are those too numerous to count surrounding the throne in white robes? They are those that came out of the great tribulation and are washed and cleansed in the blood of the Lamb. How can that be if we are not here?

Revelation 7:9

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 7:14

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 2:20-23

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Well, if we really think about, the Bible always said that the path to God was through a narrow gate.

That would lead me to believe that there are more non-believers than true believers.

Maybe they are all non-believers who finally became repentant believers during the great tribulation.

However, I still think there is some kind of hidden mystery in all of this that I'm trying to figure out and will continue in another post.

Readin' and understanding the Bible is like makin' BBQ sauce. There is a hundred different ways to do it and usually a fist fight breaks out over who's is the best.

Let's just leave it to this...

If you believe in God... good, God Bless You.

If you do not believe in God... so be it, I feel for you.

All the rest is really not that important... just a matter of semantics.

All He wants is for us to love Him and talk to Him daily.

Let's look again at the continuing verses in...

Revelation 7:14-17

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

What's with the temple in verse 15? What's with the hunger, thirst, sun and heat in verse 16?

This still sounds to me like God is addressing all of the Jews and those who had lived and wondered in the desert.

And since it's the ones who are martyred in the great tribulation that get to live with Christ during the Millennium (as outlined in Revelation 20), I'm still thinking this is the time and place where he will finally show all of the Jews that he's their Messiah who came to claim their land for them and to show them real peace, only Jesus will do it during the Millennium period before he judges everyone.

Still trying to work it all out in my mind.

Originally posted by AlreadyGone

All the rest is really not that important... just a matter of semantics.

All He wants is for us to love Him and talk to Him daily.

This is true.

In reality, the mysteries won't be revealed until the scrolls are opened, but it sure is fun trying to come to conclusions as to how it all will unfold until then!

Originally posted by deadeyedick
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I don't see anything in that verse that points to an event that would happen before the tribulation.
What do you believe the mystery of the seven stars/angels in the right hand means?

He explains exactly what it means in verse 1:20. And the tribulation begins when He is handed the sealed scroll amd begins to open it.

reply to post by AlreadyGone

B- I am leaning towards a mid- tribulation rapture. In Chapter 14 of the Revelation to John, otherwise known as Revelations, in verse 14 it reads:

14 "And I looked, and beheld a white cloud, and upon the white cloud one sat like unto the Son of man,having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle."

15"And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap;for the harvest of the earth is ripe."

It is more likely that verse is not about a rapture but a judgment, and is directly related to the judgment mentioned earlier in verse 11

And the smoke from their torture will go up forever and ever, and those who worship the beast and his image will have no rest day or night, along with anyone who receives the mark of his name.”

reply to post by dwarfflex


If it happens it could happen at anytime. I still have some doubts about pre-trib rapture because John 17:9-18

9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

The reason why i say this is the reference to the son of perdition and that Jesus didn't want us removed from the world but sealed from the evil one, this feels like future prophecy of today.

reply to post by Deetermined

Revelation 2:20-23

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

This is in reference to Mystery Babylon the Mother of Harlots, a.k.a. Heylel ben Shachar and ties into my "Bright and Morning star" thread. Jezebel brought Ba'al worship into Israel and prophet Elijah was at war with her, she was also a false prophetess decieving Israel with lies from Ba'al (Satan). Fornication unless preceded by the word "sexual" alludes to idolatry as the previous verse sets the context.

reply to post by Deetermined

16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

What's with the temple in verse 15? What's with the hunger, thirst, sun and heat in verse 16?

In my mind verse 16 speaks about those who hunger for spiritual food (bread of life) and thirst for the everlasting waters. Verse 15 references the heavenly priesthood. Jesus is the Melchzidek, the Holy High Priest. Remember the temple on earth was a physical mirror of the temple in heaven as was the priestly order. When Jesus yelled out "it is finished" on the cross he fulfilled the duty of the high priest for the atoning sacrifice. That's when he fixed what Adam screwed up and we're waiting on the fulfillment of the promise for creation to be restored to what it was before Adam fell.

TextIn this video he makes mention , that the rapture could happen today. ? any time. i know some Christians believe in a pre tribulation rapture, taking place before Jacobs trouble , the great tribulation.

reply to post by dwarfflex


I am not a scholar by any means and I do realize this argument concerning the Return of The Word of God. That is the meat of the argument. My understanding is that the beast will become exposed and will rule the world with a god like power. We are told that the beast is an entity because the beast is cast into the lake of fire. After this is set in place the anti Christ is revealed and sets in world government as a god. Then the great tribulation (Jacob's Troubles) is poured out upon the earth by the seven angels of God. After all of this then the Christ (Jesus) returns to this earth as The Word of God. At His return, He gathers all of the righteous people from the earth to join the heavenly host. At this point the world is given over to the unrighteous people. Christs rule will be 1000 years and then the world shall end.

The question asked is whether this second return of Christ can happen tomorrow. My understanding is that the anti Christ will have to be revealed first and to my knowledge it has not. Also the seven vials of wrath must be poured out upon the earth and to my knowledge they have not.

As for pre tribulation and post tribulation is concerned, the living righteous people who are here when Christ returns are then removed from this earth. Now if they are indeed here to be removed and the tribulation happens before the return of Christ, then they will see Jacobs troubles. I cannot understand how anyone would ever think that Christ would return, set up His 1,000 years government and then God pour out His wrath upon His Christ. Also in Revelation 15.2 it plainly states that there will be saints that have overcome the beast and to overcome means that you must be alive and go through the tribulation.

Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

By this, If I am correct, means that all of the world population who are alive at this time will go through the wrath of Jacobs trouble. This, to me, means that it will not happen tomorrow or one day. I don't really understand the time involved with all of this but I would think that it would take a period of time to show the world.

My answer would have to be No it cannot happen tomorrow or at any unexpected time. At least not unexpected for a Christian. It would be unexpected for a non Christian simply because a non Christian would not be seeing the signs or believe them if he did see them.

reply to post by Seede

After all of this then the Christ (Jesus) returns to this earth as The Word of God.

I don't know where you get this from.

At His return, He gathers all of the righteous people from the earth to join the heavenly host. At this point the world is given over to the unrighteous people.

I don'y know where you get this either.

Christs rule will be 1000 years and then the world shall end.

The "1000 years" only comes up in Revelation, and if you are taking that as literal, then there is a judgment that happens after the world "ends" and a new world comes into existence.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Revelation 2:20-23

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

This is in reference to Mystery Babylon the Mother of Harlots, a.k.a. Heylel ben Shachar and ties into my "Bright and Morning star" thread. Jezebel brought Ba'al worship into Israel and prophet Elijah was at war with her, she was also a false prophetess decieving Israel with lies from Ba'al (Satan). Fornication unless preceded by the word "sexual" alludes to idolatry as the previous verse sets the context.

I agree. I was using these verses as a reference to the "great tribulation" in verse 22 as a means of trying to identify who would actually be going through the great tribulation.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Deetermined

 

16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

What's with the temple in verse 15? What's with the hunger, thirst, sun and heat in verse 16?

In my mind verse 16 speaks about those who hunger for spiritual food (bread of life) and thirst for the everlasting waters. Verse 15 references the heavenly priesthood. Jesus is the Melchzidek, the Holy High Priest. Remember the temple on earth was a physical mirror of the temple in heaven as was the priestly order. When Jesus yelled out "it is finished" on the cross he fulfilled the duty of the high priest for the atoning sacrifice. That's when he fixed what Adam screwed up and we're waiting on the fulfillment of the promise for creation to be restored to what it was before Adam fell.

So, the question is, will the Millennium be the time of restoration? And for whom?

I think it's a false doctrine injected to sow confusion, it doesn't sound right and it's congruent with Jesus' mission and vision.

reply to post by Deetermined

So, the question is, will the Millennium be the time of restoration? And for whom?

The Restoration i believe happens before the Millenial Reign i think. We've already begun a portion of it as more and more christians begin to seek God's name and christianity's jewish roots, and orthodox and ultra-orthodox jews are beginning to believe in Jesus. We're seeing the beginning stages of the 2 flocks beginning to merge.

The christian church has been mirroring the jewish church step for step. Their Passover was fulfilled by Jesus, their Shavuot (Pentecost) was fulfilled by Jesus. Right after the jewish church had been established apostates started sneaking into it from the very beginning. The same thing happened to christianity. Everything that befell the jews befell us and when Christ returns he will return when the church is in the same state it was when he left 2000 years ago (in the state of the Laodician church, all lukewarm). They (Israel) had murderous rulers who took over and caused great apostacies, so did the christian church. The inmates were running the asylum in the jewish church and the same damned thing happened to christianity through the Roman Catholic Church. There is no doubt we are the daughter of Zion and we walked right in Zion's foosteps like mother like daughter.