Who is Jesus? Son of God or God?

The sun of God is all the manifestation, all that can be seen. God is not seen, God is all seeing, all knowing and everpresent.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


hey, they closed the preacher thread.
Message sent.

Originally posted by apushforenlightment

32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

What else did Jesus say?

Matthew 10:37

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by MamaJ

 

Yes, you have to keep it simple, don't you? Because you don't understand anything else.

Comfort zones. What a waste.

How sweet of you to say!! You must keep up this great attitude you have shown right here....

Keep spreading the love brother as you know just the right things to say that makes people all warm and fuzzy.

My comfort zone is sadly not yours...ya know why....? We were made different so that we may accept one another regardless of differences. You are not doing a great job..... Just sayin. And... I thought you were nice?? Oh well..

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

John 1:1 ... In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Word came first, did he not? Do you agree with "in the beginning was the Word"?.

God was first before all things. Not just 'the Word' .. but all of God. Together.
The Word was with God .. the Word was there in the beginning ... The Word was GOD.
So God came first. And God includes the Word. That's pretty darn straight forward.

John 14:11 - Jesus says - "Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me" ..
John 10:30 - Jesus says - "I and the Father are one."
Jesus Central - more of the same quotes from Christ Himself

Summing up from scripture .. from Christ Himself ... from John his Beloved Apostle too ..
The Word (Jesus) was God.
Jesus and the Father are one.
Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in Jesus.

So the majority of Christianity has it correct ... Christ is God incarnate.
True God and True Man. Capable of things we don't understand and can't imagine.
Capable of being everywhere and doing anything.
Capable of being in more than one place at a time because GOD isn't held to the laws of physics.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Jesus also tells us we are in god and god in us. He reached atonement. We, have not.

He told us we are gods! I dont feel as though im god though... Just sayin what he said. :-)

John 10:34 just in case you wanna read the word.

reply to post by MamaJ

Jesus also tells us we are in god and god in us.

I think you may be skipping a step.
I believe it is more like Jesus is in God, and we are in Jesus.

He told us we are gods! I dont feel as though im god though...

The 'ye are gods' statement was addressed to the leaders of Israel, much like the verse Jesus was quoting from. Seems that any being higher than an ordinary person was considered 'a god' to the very ancient people that the Old Testament was based on.

Originally posted by swan001
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

hey, they closed the preacher thread.
Message sent.

I saw that friend, it was a HUGE u2u. I am on the road at the northern part of the state, let me address it when i get home. God Bless you my friend.

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Jesus also tells us we are in god and god in us. He reached atonement. We, have not.

He told us we are gods! I dont feel as though im god though... Just sayin what he said. :-)

John 10:34 just in case you wanna read the word.

edit on 27-7-2012 by MamaJ because: (no reason given)

I am not sure you are not already there both in mind and spirit . I am not there in mind yeet since I am to annoyed with the conditioning/social structures/duality driven dogma that exists here.

reply to post by MamaJ


What Jesus did in that moment, was he reached an absolute peace with the world. He accepted and understood the very nature of reality and humanity. He proved that he had learned the lesson: compassion. And he was demonstrating it to us. However, I'm not entirely sure that Jesus actually died.

In fact, my own theory is that he very possibly pulled a Bruce Wayne (if you've seen the latest movie). Just to make it clearer.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


The correct answer to your question is None of the above, lonewolf.

Jesus is a great prophet of God, one of those who are nearest to Him. He used to eat, sleep, feel hungry, feel the cold just like any of us, he was a human being whose teachings have been perverted after the death of his true disciples.

Do you know that this very awful word you speak about Jesus, cause the Earth to shake violently in repulsion whenever it is mentioned? The earth has been shaking for too long and the Great Earthquake is not far off.

19:88 And they say: The Beneficent hath taken unto Himself a son.
19:89 Assuredly ye utter a disastrous thing,
19:90 Whereby almost the heavens are torn, and the earth is split asunder and the mountains fall in ruins,
19:91 That ye ascribe unto the Beneficent a son,
19:92 When it is not meet for (the Majesty of) the Beneficent that He should choose a son.
19:93 There is none in the heavens and the earth but cometh unto the Beneficent as a slave.
19:94 Verily He knoweth them and numbereth them with (right) numbering
19:95 And each one of them will come unto Him on the Day of Resurrection, alone.

Do not speak a lie about God. The Spirit is by His command, and He chose whom He wills among any of His Creations to speak to mankind, to bring good news or to warn about the Day of Meeting.

A day is coming soon when one shall come forward claiming that he is God/Jesus and showing miracles in the sky, gathering the people who believe that Jesus is God in one location and will make them drink an abominable wine whereby soon after they will vomit their knowledge, lose their mind and their souls. That is the false messiah, the messiah you believe in is false, lonewolf.

If you don't change your heart, you will not recognize the true messiah. There is still a little time, but so little, so think!

After that then the eternal virgin shall come forth calling her people from darkness to light and to believe in the One True God, this is the last shout and then a great destruction coming from the sky, which all men will see but they cannot repel, whoever will believe in the One God after this sign has come will not be accepted from them their belief and they will perish and die the worst death.. that of a disbeliever.

19:65 Lord of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them! Therefor, worship thou Him and be thou steadfast in His service. Knowest thou one that can be named along with Him?

There is ONLY ONE GOD, He begets not, nor was He begotten and there is NONE comparable unto Him.

reply to post by queenofangels_17

There is ONLY ONE GOD, He begets not, nor was He begotten and there is NONE comparable unto Him.

Well, that's not what Jesus said, so I doubt Lonewolf is going to listen to you.

By the way, why do Muslims call Jesus a prophet when they obviously don't believe a word he ever spoke?

It just doesn't make sense to me.

reply to post by Deetermined


They don't believe the hearsay. There's a difference. Believe me, I've been ruminating over the difference for some time now.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Hearsay?

Jesus' words are now Hearsay?

This is the problem I have with declaring only partial truths from the Bible.

Now you understand where I come from.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by queenofangels_17

 

There is ONLY ONE GOD, He begets not, nor was He begotten and there is NONE comparable unto Him.

Well, that's not what Jesus said, so I doubt Lonewolf is going to listen to you.

By the way, why do Muslims call Jesus a prophet when they obviously don't believe a word he ever spoke?

It just doesn't make sense to me.

The Muslims believe that Jesus is a prophet of God, and believe all the words that he spoke. We believe in his true gospel, which tells that he is a man, not a God, and not a son of God, literal son of God.

2:136 Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the Prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.

Jesus is not the son of God, he was like Adam, who was created from dust, then God said, "Be" ( the most powerful Word) and he is.

3:59 Lo! the likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is.

God said to Mary," Be conceived with Jesus " and she is. That doesn't make Jesus a begotten son of God.

5:110 When Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favor unto thee and unto thy mother; how I strengthened thee with the holy Spirit, so that thou spakest unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I taught thee the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and how thou didst shape of clay as it were the likeness of a bird by My permission, and didst blow upon it and it was a bird by My permission, and thou didst heal him who was born blind and the leper by My permission; and how thou didst raise the dead, by My permission and how I restrained the Children of Israel from harming thee when thou camest unto them with clear proofs, and those of them who disbelieved exclaimed: This is naught else than mere magic;

if all the followers of Jesus believed in his words then they will all become Muslims( people who surrendered their will to God)

61:6 And when Jesus son of Mary said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is the Praised One (Muhammad). Yet when he hath come unto them with clear proofs, they say: This is mere magic.

The Christians and Jews who became Muslims were the true followers of Christ.

3:52 But when Jesus became conscious of their disbelief, he cried: Who will be my helpers in the cause of Allah? The disciples said: We will be Allah's helpers. We believe in Allah, and bear thou witness that we have surrendered unto Him (Muslims).

17:107 Say: Believe therein or believe not, lo! those who were given knowledge before it, when it (The Qur'an) is read unto them, fall down prostrate on their faces, adoring,

19:58 These are they unto whom Allah showed favor from among the Prophets, of the seed of Adam and of those whom We carried in the ship with Noah, and of the seed of Abraham and Israel, and from among those whom We guided and chose. When the revelations of the Beneficent were recited unto them, they fell down, adoring and weeping.

I hope it makes sense to you now, Deetermined.

3:85 And whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender to Allah (Islam)it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.

reply to post by Deetermined


Did Jesus write these words himself? His gospel is not even in the Bible...imagine, the most pivotal character in the entire plot, and his story isn't even told from his own perspective, in his own hand.

This is the problem I have with declaring only partial truths from the Bible.

ARE there any whole truths in it?

Ok, I haven't been on here in quite a while, and I noticed a few topics in this forum I'd like to reply to. But it is not my intention whatsoever to "troll" or go post-crazy. I have been on a spiritual "pilgrimage" you can call it, for the past 10 years, going from simply believing in Jesus, to attempting to follow him within traditional "Christianity," and back out of traditional Christianity to follow Jesus. Christianity is a very poor representation of Jesus Christ in just about every way, and is deceived, backwards, and hypocritical. Many people who love and believe in Jesus and the scriptures feel this way. Jesus is not a Christian, and God is not religious. Religion builds a monument around past truth and tries to maintain it, but God is not like that, and to follow Jesus is a DAILY walk of new revelation and truth. Truth is a PATH, not something to be owned or acquired. It's a PATH that must be followed. And to really know God is to know Him in spirit, something Christianity really knows very little about.

To be more on topic, I believe Jesus is both God and the son of God, and here's why. If you, being human, have a son, will that son be human? Obviously yes, and the same with basically any animal, etc. If God has a son, then that son is God as well. When Jesus called himself the son of God, the religious pharisees went crazy, because they understood that he was essentially calling himself God, which he did not deny. Jesus made some conflicting statements if taken at face value. But that's because his relationship with His father is deeper than most want to go. Plus, what's wrong with some mystery to it, as well? I don't claim to have full revelation on this, but here's some thoughts. I believe Jesus had a beginning, but the Father did not. Jesus said that he proceeded forth from the Father, and that the Father is greater than he is. Scripture speaks of being with God in the "beginning" of the creation as we know it, but not as being from all eternity, as the Father. The trinity notion is bogus, not in scripture, and is an attempt to rationalize or formulize God's nature, which can't be done. Jesus was the FIRSTBORN son of God, and in His day was the ONLY son of God. But scripture PLAINLY teaches that he is to be the firstborn of MANY brothers, and that those brothers of his will also be able to be called "sons of God." I could give many examples in scripture, but here's a good one:

"Romans 8:14, 16-19 (14) For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. (16) The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, (17) and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. (18) For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. (19) For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God."

Also: Galatians 4:3-7 In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world. (4) But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, (5) to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. (6) And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!" (7) So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.

There could be TONS more examples from both the old and new testaments. Christianity relies on old truth, tradition, and fear. To follow Jesus, which is what He asks us to do (never to be a "Christian," is to learn to hear his voice, follow him, and walk in the freedom He purchased for us. If any of this sparked something in you, I'd really recommend www.kingdomstreams.net It's a site from a small "church" that meets in a high-school in Pennsylvania. But the "pastor" (who works full-time as a roofer/odd jobs and isn't paid) is truly seeking God and teaches amazing truth, which is totally free on the site. God bless you all. Go outside the box of religion, including Christianity, because that's where God is. The scriptures are useful and even vital, but I see them as a "GPS" to guide you to God, not the destination or something to consume ones full attention.

god is a much abused word by human superstitions. It was once the goddess, the source for human creation. It became off world creation gods in Sumeria with breeding experiments. god, in Abramic religions, was from fallen angels not of Earth.

Technically Jesus was a man caught up in a quagmire of these issues for what is god. Jesus is a decendent from these human genetic experiments, but that doesn't make him god. Just as Nimrod being a descendant from the same genetics didn't make him god, though he claimed to be and this made the Trinity concept.


It might have been better if humans never even considered god as a term for the original creation of the universe, and really they didn't do that because that creation is said done by a great force, an intelligence, and all we have is the order of nature itself as evidence for creation. We don't even need the word god to tell that story.


Likewise Jesus can't be the maker of the universe, but he, like everyone, is a product of nature. Plus, some genetic tampering along the way from those attempting to play god and human ignorance adopting the word in the wrong associations.


Most of the biblical tales confuse the genetic tampering gods with that of the great architech of the unverse, making most all the bible god tthemes bogus. Including the one Jesus called Abba, Daddy.

reply to post by MagnumOpus


Are gods mortal, or immortal? No one has a true definition for the term "god", except as a being that is worshipped. Is that all that's necessary to be called a god?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

Are gods mortal, or immortal? No one has a true definition for the term "god", except as a being that is worshipped. Is that all that's necessary to be called a god?

Absolutely not. Millions of people worship Eminem.