reply to post by Akragon
John 13:16
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
You're splitting hairs. Jesus never claimed to be greater than the Father, but Jesus never said he was not equal to the Father either. In fact he
went out of his way to give parables so that the people would know he is God. In John 8 he said right out in the open and the jews tried to stone him.
In Matthew 12 he says he is greater than the temple and Lord even of the Sabbath. So it appears Akragon, it is you who are not reading what is being
said. Read between the lines.
John 5:37-47
37
And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. 38 But you
do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. 39
You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have
eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
41 “I do not receive honor from men. 42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you
do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek
the honor that comes from the only God? 45
Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you
trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you
believe My words?”
Moses wrote the first 5 books of the Torah. Moses wrote about God period, the Savior Yahweh. The only way he could write about Jesus was if Jesus is
Yahweh. So if no one had ever seen the Father or his form, who was that who made Adam and walked with him and talked with him? Who was that standing
there talking to Abraham the day Sodom and Gomorrah burned? Who was that who picked Moses up and put him in the cleft and showed him his back while
he passed by? Who appeared to Joshua in Joshua ch. 5 and told him to take off his shoes because he was on holy ground (just lke he told Moses)? Who
appeared to Manoah's wife (Samson's mother)? Who appeared to Gideon? Who appeared to Daniel? Who did Isaiah see on the throne of Heaven in Isaiah ch.
6? At the time Jesus said this in John 5 the only scritures were the Torah and Tenach of the Prophets, the NT hadn't been penned yet.
John 8:56-59
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Here Jesus clearly states that He was, before Abraham was born, I AM and the jews tried to stone him because they knew who I AM is. I AM is the first
name God gave Moses when he first saw him as the burning bush, that name Hayah is I AM and the jews by their reaction understood him for saying he is
Hayah. There is no mistaking Jesus' intent here, nor is there any mistaking the jews' intent to kill him for it.
This brings us to the Trilemma, Jesus was either:
1. a liar
2. a lunatic
3. telling the truth
edit on 4-8-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)
