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Tragedy hits home.

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posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 06:30 PM
I guess this is a rant…

The last few days has changed my outlook on life, but I guess that’s what life is a series of experience that shape who you are. You see I was raised by a father who decided to get him and his new wife out of a horrible area. My father was raised in downtown L. an area called Aliso Village early 60’s – 70’s.

So my father a young newly married Hispanic, did what any good husband would, he worked his butt off to better his situation. Eventually moving to Whittier in the 80’s by this time having me and my brother. Whittier, a nice suburb of L.A. As a side note that is why I am such a big believer in the “American Dream” My Grandfather was a gardener, His grandsons range from a VP at a Bank, an MIT Grad, and several Business professionals.

So growing up all my experience with Police Officers where pleasant, Whittier P.D. of the time was great. I remember growing up with ZERO fear of police. However I always had my father telling me to Respect Police, but never trust them. At the time I only had Whittier P.D., those guys? Don’t trust them? That’s crazy talk.

As I grew up though I began to see that maybe all was not what it seemed with police, examples in the media, Rodney king, etc. Well still this was not in my life, I never do anything wrong so why would cops bother me.

At the age of 22 I had my first run in with what my father had always hinted about the reason for his distrust, I was picking up my Elderly Aunt who works in Anaheim at the time. I was in an Infiniti, a young Hispanic with his cousin who was 13 at the time.

Maybe it was the Combination of the type of Car, brand new Infiniti and two Young Hispanics… But like I said earlier, my father got his family out of L.A. so we could have a chance, and at the time I was in sales making 80K a year. So here I am picking up my aunt, at 9:30pm with my young cousin, and an Anaheim PD car pulls up behind us and flashes his sirens.

We are ordered out of the car at gun point, I calmly againno fear of cops, tell my cousin to do as they say, and don’t reach for anything. I turn of the car and we step out, as we are being ordered away from the car again at gun point. I notice my 13 year old cousin is crying and shaking with fear, SO I Calmly ask the Officers “what is the problem officers?” I am told to shut up and placed in cuffs and sat on the curb, The car is immediately searched, Despite my questions and protest.

They pull the registration off the window (new car) and check it with my wallet. The whole time I am calm, they check it with my ID in my wallet and immediate start asking questions like.
“you a drug dealer” “how’d you get this car” Etc.

Again Im concerned but not afraid, I ask what was the reason for being pulled over, at this point My aunt has gotten off work, and as we were in the parking lot of her Work. She demands to know what is going on.

At this point I am released with my cousin, I am told that me and My 13 year old cousin matched the description of a car that was involved in a hit and run. I ask for their names and badge numbers, they Laughed and told me.
“have a nice night”

So I write It off as two overzealous cops nothing more, my child hood illusions still intact.

You see My cousin that was with me, his father was not so motivated to get them out of bad areas. At the time he told me thank God my aunt was there to verify we were there to pick her up. At the time I look at him weird and shrug it off and this is where I start to get to my point.

These cousins I have are funny, they are from my Mothers side of the family, and I have always looked at them as a mirror to my family. When my older brother was born, my older cousin was as well, and I am only 3 months difference from the other cousin on the same side, and my younger brother the same with their last child.

The main difference is they grew up in Anaheim with #ty parents, in a #ty area. We always made every effort to have them over as we were all close growing up due to the nearest in age. AS we grew however I begain to see the effects of the area and lack of parenting.

-Where my older brother Went to MIT, my Older Cousin went to jail.

-Where I entered business and advanced my sales Carrier, My cousin my age went into selling drugs.

-Where my younger Brother went into computers, the younger cousin (who was terrified by the cops
earlier) Had a kid young and dropped out to go support them.

My point is, I like many could only see one side of things, My side, I always wrote my cousins off as Lazy, Stupid, or any other combinations of that.

Now the reason I mention them relates back to the whole purpose of this rant, You see my younger brother and my younger cousin are very close, and growing up he would go to his house and hang out with his friends. I would go every now and then, and got to know many of them, hanging out with them in Anaheim.

It is a completely different world over there than what I was raised in, In that time I met many people that where very good people. Just in bad situations. (again, I was of the mindset Their fault for never leaving)

One of the people I met there was a nice family, Single parent house, Just the mother doing her best for her kids. Her son Robert, became friends with my family. When I lost my mother he was a great help and comfort, his family would take in their kids friends in a time of need. I can recall numerous time going over there house and a kid who had no home would be there.

Robert had a Younger brother, Joel, he was a troubled youth, again as many in that area, HE saw the gang lifestyle as a form of protection. I remember when my brother would go there while in college I would always tell him to be safe, he usually would grab our cousin and go out, Sometimes he stayed in Anaheim. Many times at the relative safety that Robert and his family provided. Being older, Robert became a friend of my family.

Well as many of you may have saw there was that near right at Anna and La Palma, and me with my limited experience with Anaheim, and my NARROW view point, spent much effort in that thread ARGUING FOR THE COPS.

As Robert was one of the people who texted us telling me of the near Riots about to go down at Anna and la palma. I read his reports, and talked to him, and had come to the conclusion clearly the COPS had been in danger.

You can see my comments at

Cops shoot at Mums, children, release dog on woman holding child.

posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 06:30 PM
Well I had been looking at it from my Narrow world view… Until that night.

Joel, (the troubled brother of Robert) Was apparently picked up by his friends in a stolen SUV.
50 FT from his house he was pulled over, and being the troubled youth that he is, ran.
HE was shot in the back, and cuffed, beaten, during the course of the cops kicking him, they shot him in the Neck.

50ft from his house, in front of his mother who had ran out to see what the commotion was, as she watched her son twitching and bleeding on the floor, The cops prevented anyone from helping him.
Heres the thing, as I was told on this, I watched as the cops and media twisted the story before my very eyes. Officers went around offering to purchase with cash, the video of the incident from eye witnesses.
Joels mother, has reported that the same Cops there that night stopped by her house the very next day to Intimidate and harass her.

And I watched as Anaheim is turning into a situation that could rival the LA riots.
I don’t know what I am trying to say.

My whole life I have trusted the Cops.
But being on ATS, and with My father’s upbringing, I’ve always known they Technically have no obligation to protect you, never have.
The Anaheim Police Chief went of Tv and said as much, there job is to protect the Property and Business’ in the area…

It wasn’t until I witnessed it with my own eye, and affecting kind generous people I knew, that I see why my father always had a hint of fear in his eye dealing with cops.
Coming from where I have, I see now that I did not get the Typical Experience that tends to plague minorities…
And it shaded my view.

With all these threads I see people attacking the victim, I see defending the cops.
Joel didn’t deserves to be beaten (he received a broke arm before being shot) while restrained, and Executed while cuffed.

My world view has been forever changed. Where as before I was seeing things very oneside, and now I maybe too close to the issue to even make sense of it all, I don’t know what the point of all this was, I just don’t know… I guess that’s why I put this in rant.

posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 06:53 PM
I am sorry for the loss of your friend; and in such a cruel unnecessary way. Sometimes the lessons we learn in life are so hard and such a rude heart goes out to you.

posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 06:59 PM
reply to post by caladonea

Thank you, its so hard not to get swept up into anger...

its so bizzar, reading the responses on news reports, things calling him a worthless cholo, calling him a Illegal, saying all these horrible things.

And all i remember is the annoying little brother of a friend.

And than you add the crazy situation in Anaheim, Disney dumps money on the PD to get rid of these "elements" trying to Gentrification crap, pushing the poor out. SO the PD is ruthless to the poor and "ethnic" 9 deaths in a year... all questionable...

The more I dig the more confused and angry I get.

edit on 25-7-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:05 PM
You should send your OP to the news papers, as it is, dont change a word of it.

posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:10 PM
reply to post by VoidHawk

I don't know, I didn't know if I should of posted it here...

The mother has a lawyer, and is going that route.

I just was reading some comments about Joey on yahoo and other sites, just needed to vent.

Gang member or not he was still someones son.

posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:21 PM

Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by VoidHawk

I don't know, I didn't know if I should of posted it here...

The mother has a lawyer, and is going that route.

I just was reading some comments about Joey on yahoo and other sites, just needed to vent.

Gang member or not he was still someones son.

They are only gang members because its their way of surviving, not everyone can get out like you did, though I expect many will come into this thread spouting that I'm wrong, but thats because they are narrow minded fools.

TPTB have designed everything to be the way it is, they need the streets full of gangs to justify the control they have over ALL of us. Sure I dont like to walk down a street full of dodgy looking people but I'm open minded enough to know why they are there. Given the chance 99% of them would love to have a nice home and a decent job, the problem is there aren't enough jobs, and that too is by design.

posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:25 PM
reply to post by VoidHawk

Yea, perhaps instead of Dumping all that money on the Cops Disney should of put it toward after school programs and into the local schools...

BTW, the cop that visited the Mother claimed his Names was Officer "killings"... the same cop that was there that night.

The mother prevented a near riot by telling everyone in the neighbour hood that wasn't the way to deal with itn that night.

posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:41 PM
It is like an infection. One bad cop in charge of other cops. Good cops move out to other locations and bad cops move in. New cops are taught how to act. Many loose their way. It does not take long for large numbers of cops to go bad, to rely on each other to cover up things.

There are good police out there. They are mostly isolated and many simply leave the force in protest. Add to this that the recruitment process in many areas actively prevent intelligent people from joining. What you end up with is bullies with power, and unrestrained bullies are a nightmare scenario.

Welcome to the nightmare!

OP, sorry for your loss. It will be harder to take without justice. Stay strong.


posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 10:21 PM
Very sorry to hear about the loss of your family friend. I remember reading the thread you posted in your op and your defense of the cops in that thread. I withheld judgement, due to your knowledge of the area and decided you were probably right. I wanted to be angry at the police officers in the video, letting dogs loose and firing non lethal ammo at women and little children.

I watched the live feeds last night of some protest in the area and witnessed a lot of police actions that I find VERY questionable. Such as firing pepper balls, bean bags etc. at live streamers with press passes. They were not allowed, it seemed, to film the protesters, (maybe cause it would show them in a manner the cops did not want to be seen?) but it was completely fine by the cops for the media to film on the other side of the police lines... hmmmm

I really hope for justice for your friend that was cuffed and executed...

posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 10:49 PM
reply to post by Startruth144

Very sorry to hear about the loss of your family friend. I remember reading the thread you posted in your op and your defense of the cops in that thread. I withheld judgement, due to your knowledge of the area and decided you were probably right. I wanted to be angry at the police officers in the video, letting dogs loose and firing non lethal ammo at women and little children.

And I apologize, clearly I was following my limited life exp, with out looking outside my "box" you know denying ignorance... what this site is about.

I know now HOW bad it was, I even went to that area, there was no way in this heat people would of been in their houses at the time, of course they where on the lawns and porches with their kids...

They don't have the money for the AC, again thinking in my little box.

posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 02:37 AM
Im so sorry to hear this.

Unfortunately I know exactly where you are coming from. My family lives on rez.. and I always felt that it was their fault that they are poor or alcoholics or get murdered for being with the wrong people and the police not giving a damn etc etc ad nauseum. I can say I am ashamed for ever feeling that way and it cant be blamed on youth. Now I am older and I see that sometimes you really are the product of your environment. I certainly am. I was not raised on rez and went to college. I worked and am squeaky clean. Finished college, had my first kid at 24 and several yrs after marriage.Still married all these years later. Never even smoked stuff in college or touched any drug.I dont drink even now. I thought if I can do it they can too.. no reason to be "trash" no matter your environment. Well, in reality its just NOT that easy. I only did what I did due to my parents making hard choices for me and putting me in a spot where I had the ability to succeed if I chose to. Same with hispanic neighborhoods or black neighborhoods or etc neighborhoods.. welcome to the reservation.

I could tell you my own eye opening situation several yrs ago concerning a cousins murder, but suffice to say.. many people think like both you and I though originally.. for their entire lives and never expand their view. Some get bitter and never understand the tragedy.. you did understand it and adjust your paradigm. Please dont get bitter or let the anger eat you.

posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 05:53 AM
The hooligans at the top of the society are a hundred times the problem that the hooligans at the bottom of the society are. They take too much off the table. Everything follows from that.

posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 06:17 AM
Ben thanks for posting this. My parents too moved from a drug ridden low level school system just for us kids. They had 60 acres of land on a high hill overlooking the Susquehanna River in Saginaw, PA. It wasn't gangs or a bad neighborhood just the schools were bad.

I more than understand where your coming from. Often we don't realize the effect our environment has on us growing up. As a victim of child sex abuse I don't trust anyone.. not police or any authority figure but because of it I am able to spot BS a mile away.!

we as humans often look at someone and think WTF? yet we don't know what and how the grew up and many neighborhoods are like small tribal villages with their own set of cultures, customs and expectations!

another thing these cops also have been caught up in their own social and ethical culture and often good cops become bad cops because that is the way things are done and who are they to question the status quo of their culture!

posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 07:37 AM
its now considered against the law to WWB [walk while black] in some neighborhoods, but racial profiling aside, shooting an unarmed suspect in the back shows a blatant disregard for the law, and a blatant disregard for human life. rant away. the citizens of anaheim are protesting for a reason.

the victim is a known gang member. the cop who shot him in the back is now a known thug and murderer. any police officer who feels executing citizens is fine because its a 'dangerous job' is a murderer and criminal. statistically, being a police officer is far safer than being a construction worker or any of many other common professions.

there is nothing in the law that gives police the right to abuse authority or the law to brutalize citizen rights in the act of duty. its a criminal action if they do, or if they support other officers who do violate the same laws we all abide. the current attitude of police force's across the country is gravitating against citizens [the 'enemy'] while 'we the police' are above the law. that is a criminalization of our police force's 'culture' as is evident in the abuse of laws by officers against citizens. this is a sad situation. i, for one, am happy to see a community fed up with it and standing up for their basic human rights and freedoms. the heavy handed response of the cops to citizen protest illustrates the problem. filming cops in every situation to require them to abide by the law is one other reasonable response. any officer who disobeys the same laws we all obey should be fired or incarcerated.
edit on 26-7-2012 by sirbadazz because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 10:34 AM
Having grown up in the area I really do understand what you are saying.

My Father was a Cop in an adjoining city. They hated APD.

These guys have been out of control since the 70's.

They aren't overtly racist. My brother is white and was beaten while cuffed by APD.

When they took him to the station they tried to plant drugs on him.

The only reason he didn't get that charge, both of his pockets in front were ripped open.

A fish rots from the head down. Also, you are right about the Disney money.

Sorry about your loss Bro....There are no words to make it better.

*Add: They don't call it Anacrime for nothing...
edit on 26-7-2012 by whyamIhere because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 10:50 AM
reply to post by benrl

It's racial profiling pure and simple. These police are probably assigned to poor neighborhoods where the majority are minorities. If the number of arrests have a high percentage of minorities, they develop a mindset that a majority of criminal activity is done by minorities. They don't trust minorities so they face every incident with extreme caution and excessive force.

I would relate it to soldiers who are fighting an unconventional war. When they're used to an enemy who's profile is a particular race or culture, they're on heightened alert every time they see someone fitting that description.

It's definitely wrong that the police do this. However, considering they're life can be in danger at anytime, and they have fear like everyone else, their thoughts and emotions can probably cause them to use excessive force when they shouldn't.

Some will say that's their job, but we all do things sometimes under stress that we normally wouldn't do. I'm not trying to justify their actions, but a police officer never knows when anyone on the street can end up taking their life.

Shooting someone in the back as they're fleeing isn't a threat to their life. So using lethal force is uncalled for and this police officer should be held accountable. Minorities knowing how the police are, the last thing they should think about doing when pulled over is fleeing. Why take a chance at losing your life to a trigger happy police officer?

Just my thoughts.

posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 12:08 PM
reply to post by benrl

Sorry to hear this my friend. Nothing like this has ever happened to anyone I know or have known. Where I live I'm rarely able to see or even hear my neighbors. We have our own tragedies, but most are accidents or self-inflicted. My environment is for the most part peaceful. I know there is another world out there, because my childhood was spent there. I'm so disconnected from all of that now.

I see the videos and I read the horror stories, but there is nothing like living it or being a victim of it. To "walk a mile in another man's shoes"; makes sense doesn't it. We judge others, and paint them with colors we know nothing of.

I'm sure that talking about it will help you in the short run. However, you have a permanent scar now which you must address. My prayer for you is that you take it somewhere positive for the long run. Time heals much...

posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 02:17 PM
I am very sorry for your loss.
I was raised to be wary of people in authority. Not to hate, but to be careful.
One of my memories as a young girl was watching the man across the street throwing his girlfriend down the back steps of their home and beating her black and blue into the street. It was horrid. She was a college student working on her thesis, and he threw all of her papers into the yard after her.
She crawled to our house, crying for help. We let her in and called the cops. When the cops arrived, I felt relieved. They were here to wrong the right! The man would be arrested and taken away and the woman could go back home, right?
I will never, ever, to the day I die, forget what I saw. The abuser, calmly and confidently walking down the steps and shaking the cops' hands. All of them standing in the street with their arms crossed, as if they were discussing a football game. The woman, standing there in hysterical tears, begging the cops to listen to what happened. A cop yelling at her to "CALM DOWN" and threatening her with arrest if she did not. This incident has always coloured my view.
Yes, maybe they are not all like that. Maybe this was an isolated incident. Although I have seen enough after that to think otherwise.
I teach my children the same way. Be wary, stay away from authority figures. They can help, or they can end your life. It is kind of a roll of the dice on who is responding that day.

posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 06:03 PM
You know, as a teenager, I was always in trouble. I had a respect for cops even though I was a troubled kid. That was in the 80's...nowadays I find even in white suburbia where I have been for a couple decades, teens have no respect for cops, or any adult for that matter. Times have changed, cops have changed. I am one of the people that typically stands up for the cops, they have dangerous jobs and less and less people have a healthy fear/respect for them. HOWEVER 2 wrongs don't make a right. More and more I see videos or read stories of cops using their positions to whatever they like. With the current trend I can't imagine what the cops will be like in 20 years. In all fairness I can't imagine what the criminals will be like either.
I'm not sure what my stance is anymore. I want cops to be the almost superhero's they seemed to be in the 50's (or so I imagine) 13 year olds didn't rape, deal drugs or carry guns then either. I fear the change we are seeing is inevitable, and will only continue to get worse. Sorry for this and how it has taken a family member.

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