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John Moore Nibiru updates - can you afford to ignore this?

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posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by stereologist
 


This in itself is a falsehood. Please provide evidence that Nibiru does not exist or that it is impossible for a similar or identical object to exist.




posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by DeathShield
 


So what do you suggest then, skeptics and believers?

I would suggest you take the time to learn a modicum of astronomy including a bit about orbital mechanics. The more the better but the basics would be sufficient to tell you that it is impossible for a body of significant mass to periodically enter the inner solar system without hopelessly disrupting the orbits of the planets. If Nibiru existed, we would not.

Without making the effort to gain the necessary understanding you will be only able to rely upon the claims of the believers and the skeptics. It's up to you...always.

edit on 7/26/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Char-Lee
 

In 1556 monks said the Earth was the center of the universe. They could hardly be expected to understand what a comet actually is.

edit on 7/26/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)


Yes and many a modern scientist has been way off base too.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by DeathShield
reply to post by stereologist
 


This in itself is a falsehood. Please provide evidence that Nibiru does not exist or that it is impossible for a similar or identical object to exist.


Ahh, but you seem to forget that the burden of proof is on the accuser (those who say that it does exist). The OP says it exists; its not up to us to prove him wrong, its up to him to prove himself right.

And as far as a similar object existing ... there were some videos posted earlier that demonstrated the whole concept using a universe sandbox program. It showed that an object of that size coming in the manner that has been said would eventually end up flinging the Earth out of the orbit of the sun. If this fantasy object has a 3600 year orbit as the OP said, the Earth wouldnt be anywhere near the Sun right now.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by Char-Lee
 




Yes and many a modern scientist has been way off base too.

Learning all the time. We've learned a lot about comets.
But da Cruz didn't think the comet was the cause of the earthquake either.
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by flyswatter
 


And that is exactly the response i was expecting.


so what you mean to tell me is that you can say that " there is no proof" without actually providing real proof for your claim because " the other guy said it is real and has to prove it first." That is really lazy and dishonest.

I'm sorry but just who do you think you are kidding here?



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by flyswatter

Originally posted by DeathShield
reply to post by stereologist
 


This in itself is a falsehood. Please provide evidence that Nibiru does not exist or that it is impossible for a similar or identical object to exist.


Ahh, but you seem to forget that the burden of proof is on the accuser (those who say that it does exist). The OP says it exists; its not up to us to prove him wrong, its up to him to prove himself right.

And as far as a similar object existing ... there were some videos posted earlier that demonstrated the whole concept using a universe sandbox program. It showed that an object of that size coming in the manner that has been said would eventually end up flinging the Earth out of the orbit of the sun. If this fantasy object has a 3600 year orbit as the OP said, the Earth wouldnt be anywhere near the Sun right now.


not to split hairs...

but he made a statement, YOU are the accuser. YOU are accusing him of be incorrect. YOU need to provide proof his statement is wrong.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by Dizrael
 



but he made a statement, YOU are the accuser. YOU are accusing him of be incorrect. YOU need to provide proof his statement is wrong.


Have you read the thread at all?

1. No large body fitting the description of Planet X/Nibiru can be observed at any wavelength.

2. No other body in the Solar System is showing signs of gravitational perturbations.

3. The "ancient texts" that purport to describe Nibiru do so only if their literal interpretation is disregarded in favor of a fantastical one.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by Dizrael

Originally posted by flyswatter

Originally posted by DeathShield
reply to post by stereologist
 


This in itself is a falsehood. Please provide evidence that Nibiru does not exist or that it is impossible for a similar or identical object to exist.


Ahh, but you seem to forget that the burden of proof is on the accuser (those who say that it does exist). The OP says it exists; its not up to us to prove him wrong, its up to him to prove himself right.

And as far as a similar object existing ... there were some videos posted earlier that demonstrated the whole concept using a universe sandbox program. It showed that an object of that size coming in the manner that has been said would eventually end up flinging the Earth out of the orbit of the sun. If this fantasy object has a 3600 year orbit as the OP said, the Earth wouldnt be anywhere near the Sun right now.


not to split hairs...

but he made a statement, YOU are the accuser. YOU are accusing him of be incorrect. YOU need to provide proof his statement is wrong.


We have.

Several times over.

And over.

And over again.

You can't have a heavy mass object orbiting the sun to where said orbit brings it within the inner solar system without causing drastic changes on said planets are that are already in the solar system.

No one has to take anyone's word for it. Learn orbital mechanics, then sit down and work it out the old school way. Or use simulators (like Universal Sandbox) which will do the calculations for you. And see what kind of influence a heavy mass object will have on the inner planets every 3600 years.
Compare your results to what the planets have been doing since humans have been keeping records (no, not modern times either. You can use ancient monuments and observatories if you like).
You'll see that they've not changed their orbits in the sky for many thousands of years.

Or don't take the time to learn anything about astronomy (and you don't need a degree in it, a few beginner books is all one needs) or how life began on our planet and instead embrace one modern man's story (a story that he made money off of) of a planet that violates all laws of physics, populated by winged people that created human beings, because they wanted the Earth's gold......


Your choice.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 05:50 PM
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reply to post by PlanetXisHERE
 


The delusion is strong with this one, young padawan.




posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by Dizrael

Originally posted by flyswatter

Originally posted by DeathShield
reply to post by stereologist
 


This in itself is a falsehood. Please provide evidence that Nibiru does not exist or that it is impossible for a similar or identical object to exist.


Ahh, but you seem to forget that the burden of proof is on the accuser (those who say that it does exist). The OP says it exists; its not up to us to prove him wrong, its up to him to prove himself right.

And as far as a similar object existing ... there were some videos posted earlier that demonstrated the whole concept using a universe sandbox program. It showed that an object of that size coming in the manner that has been said would eventually end up flinging the Earth out of the orbit of the sun. If this fantasy object has a 3600 year orbit as the OP said, the Earth wouldnt be anywhere near the Sun right now.


not to split hairs...

but he made a statement, YOU are the accuser. YOU are accusing him of be incorrect. YOU need to provide proof his statement is wrong.


Well, no. People who want evidence of Nibiru's existence are saying that the normal and ordinary state of the solar system is what we can see right now. Nibiru believers are trying to say that the solar system is actually NOT the normal ordinary state we see right now, but actually consists of a extra-ordinary idea that a rogue planet can come though the inner solar system every 3600 years.

Using your version of burden of proof, the police should be able to walk up to any normal and ordinary person and make them prove they did NOT do something out-of-the ordinary, such as commit a crime. Your version of "burden of proof" would assume people have done something not ordinary, like committed a crime, unless they can prove otherwise.

You are saying that the solar system should automatically be considered as out-of-the-ordinary (i.e., a solar system with a rogue planet that we can't detect through studying orbital mechanics) unless proven otherwise.

It is shown that a rogue planet could not have been in the solar system 3600 years ago without throwing the entire solar system out of whack. Nibiru belivers need to prove otherwise -- prove that a planet could have come through without messing up the balance of the solar system.


edit on 7/26/2012 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by DeathShield
reply to post by flyswatter
 


And that is exactly the response i was expecting.


so what you mean to tell me is that you can say that " there is no proof" without actually providing real proof for your claim because " the other guy said it is real and has to prove it first." That is really lazy and dishonest.

I'm sorry but just who do you think you are kidding here?



Do you honestly not understand what I am saying? If I walk past a homeless guy and he says not to step on his dog sitting next to him, but there is no dog next to him, I'm going to tell him "but sir, there is no dog next to you." He then says "yes there is!" Again I tell him "no, there is no dog there." If I get responses from him and others that say "Prove it," I'm just going to facepalm and walk away.

I should probably do the same thing here, because its the same situation here. What the OP is trying to say is not only not believable, but it has also been shown to be impossible within the current knowledge and laws of physics. He can say that something is there - others say show us - he says we cant see it, but its there - we say show us - etc, etc. It is HIS responsibility to prove that it is there. It's not our responsibility to prove a negative.

I thought that this "who has to prove what" argument had been explained often enough on this site for pretty much everyone to understand how this whole thing works, but I guess not.
edit on 26-7-2012 by flyswatter because: I have fat fingers



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by DeathShield
reply to post by flyswatter
 


And that is exactly the response i was expecting.


so what you mean to tell me is that you can say that " there is no proof" without actually providing real proof for your claim because " the other guy said it is real and has to prove it first." That is really lazy and dishonest.

I'm sorry but just who do you think you are kidding here?


Thank goodness you aren't a prosecutor. You'd be finding random people on the street and accusing them of murder.

Saying "prove to me that a rogue planet did barrel through the solar system 3600 years ago" is the same as saying to a random person "prove to me you didn't murder someone". The person making the extraordinary claim (i.e., the extraordinary claim that Nibiru exists, or the extraordinary claim that another person is a murderer) has the burden of proof.

By the way, there is the evidence of orbital mechanics that tells us a planet larger than Jupiter could not have come through the inner solar system without messing up the planets. Now you need to show us how it COULD have.


edit on 7/26/2012 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by DeathShield
reply to post by flyswatter
 


And that is exactly the response i was expecting.


so what you mean to tell me is that you can say that " there is no proof" without actually providing real proof for your claim because " the other guy said it is real and has to prove it first." That is really lazy and dishonest.

I'm sorry but just who do you think you are kidding here?


Thank goodness you aren't a prosecutor. You'd be finding random people on the street and accusing them of murder.

Saying "prove to me that a rogue planet did barrel through the solar system 3600 years ago" is the same as saying to a random person "prove to me you didn't murder someone". The person making the extraordinary claim (i.e., that Nibiru exists, or that another person is a murderer) is the person with the burden of proof.

By the way, there is the evidence of orbital mechanics that tells us a planet larger than Jupiter could not have come through the inner solar system without messing up the planets. Now you need to show us how it COULD have.
edit on 7/26/2012 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)

I couldn't have said it better myself!



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by DeathShield
 


So what do you suggest then, skeptics and believers?

I would suggest you take the time to learn a modicum of astronomy including a bit about orbital mechanics. The more the better but the basics would be sufficient to tell you that it is impossible for a body of significant mass to periodically enter the inner solar system without hopelessly disrupting the orbits of the planets. If Nibiru existed, we would not.

Without making the effort to gain the necessary understanding you will be only able to rely upon the claims of the believers and the skeptics. It's up to you...always.

edit on 7/26/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)


So what you mean to tell me is that you have personally reviewed every single bit of evidence that claims to show proof of or non-proof of Nibiru or similar things and have access to all the labs, knowledge and equipment? Or are you basing it off of pre-existing reports and pre-existing knowledge that in and of itself is not 100% certain by sheer virtue of the limitations within our own current understandings? Knowledge that at best seems to be " mostly true" provided our pre-concieved notions are not in fact erroneous in and of themselves.

Wow, you just automatically assume that i have zero education on the subject. I already have the basic understanding of planetary physics to know that a nibiru style object would be a real wrench in the cogs for the rest of the solar systems planets. At no point do i assume that a situation is impossible though. Nor does the existence of technologies lead me to believe that there is an active effort to prove or disprove the scenario in question or that the subject is even knowable via such means. I believe that there might be a god out there but i am not running around telling everyone to repent or else zombie-christ is going to damn their souls to tartarus.

I know enough to know that there probably isn't a nibiru style scenario in play right now. Based off of current knowledge the Gravity Well that such an object would have would be another proverbial wrench in the cogs for our solar clock. But i don't think such a scenario to be impossible because " it hasn't happened. before" when the entirety of my Class and species has only been existant for a few million of the few billion years that this universe has supposedly existed for. Nor am i about to assume that the measly 100 years of scientific data and theory is free from personal cognitive biases or simple interpretation error.




So...instead of explaining to me why it couldn't work in simple and easy terms you opt to more or less throw a veiled insult my way and tell me to go get educated while refusing to substantiate your own position. Here i will give you a simple explanation for why nibiru might not be real.

"Assuming our current cosmological concepts are accurate and That Stitchin and others claims are true and nibiru was a jupiter or other similarly sized object then we would see the effects of its Gravity Well on other objects. For example we would see objects being disrupted in their normal orbit or we would see other effects. As of right now we do not see anything abnormal in the orbits of any body within our solar system. This is empirically observable within our current technological devices as interpreted by our current body of rules and standards. If you would like to know more than PM me and i will HELP YOU find the resources necessary to further educate you. However do not expect me to help if you are not willing to listen"

Wow, thanks...

Well i got my answers guys. Thanks for showing me that there is no room for a seriously inquiring mind. I didn't even have my mind made up on this subject to begin with nor did i even claim that a nibiru style object or scenario existed. But apparently by expressing skepticism of BOTH sides claims and acknowledging limitation in my own knowledge i am someone who is completely uneducated who doesn't have even the slightest idea of how things work. I'm sorry but how do any of you expect to educate anyone this way?


All i wanted to know was what made either side so sure of its claim. And instead i got the same old shifting of burden of proof and shame inducing derision

Sigh....



edit on 26-7-2012 by DeathShield because: Because i am an uneducated pig without a grip on reality.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by PlanetXisHERE
 


PlanetXisHERE - Good Thread - Lots of good replies too. There's nothing like a few good recent pictures that are just not easily explained away...! - Enjoy


Many say people would have seen this by now. Many have. However there is a national security directive for all government employees including scientists not to talk about this.



People say you can see Jupiter, Saturn, Mars or Venus with the naked eye - why can't we see Nibiru/Planet X? Well, Nibiru gives off light in the infrared spectrum, like billion of other objects in our universe, and is almost impossible to see with the naked eye, especially coming at us from out of the Sun.




Why do you think Obama invoked the National Communications Executive order of last week? They want to be able to control the internet when people soon be able to see this with their own eyes.

Why wouldn't the government warn people? Well, this is the way they see it:

A) Planet X's passing will just cause some high-tides and earthquakes and life for the most part will go on as usual - so there is no point in panicking people.

B) Planet X's passing will cause major tectonic/climactic upheavals on the planet and kill about 95% of the world's population - and warning people now would not change that - so there is no point in panicking people.

What do you have to lose by doing some research or basic preparations? What is the agenda of those who would have you ignore this or do nothing?

---------------------------------------------------------------

There are a whole lot of posts on the planet Nibiru, but no one is talking about it's inhabitants - the Annunaki

In the picture below is an ancient thousands of years old large stella type of a statue of an Annunaki -

Notice in the Circled area # 2 - Sure is a very nice wrist watch type of a device he is wearing on his wrist - one can only wonder what all it actually did besides just tell the time of day, or maybe it was a communications device of some type...

Also notice in the Circled area # 3 - The Annuanaki man is shown with his finger in the position as if pushing a button. - One can only wonder what type of a button he was pushing? What was the button on? A Stargate device of some type possibly... And then not to mention all of the other ancient and strange symbols on the picture. These where the Annunaki stella's left behind by the ancient Sumerian's who they claimed taught them everything they knew.

And notice in the Circled area # 1 - Why is this Annunaki man wearing such a large Cross type of a necklace ? What meaning or significance does it have...? Or could it be some type of a Power Device that we are not aware of, and the same can be said for the strange looking staff he is holding in his hand, what all could it do...?

The Annunaki figure in this ancient stella is pushing a button on something that looks somewhat like modern man does, when he is standing at the door of an elevator and is pushing the button... Who among us really knows..?




posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by chrisb9
reply to post by PlanetXisHERE
 




I think he's flicking the wind chimes with his finger so they make a tinkling noise.


edit on Thu Jul 26 2012 by DontTreadOnMe because: Mod Note: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by flyswatter
 



And you and others missed my entire point. If you are going to say that someone is wrong than you need to explain WHY they are wrong. I don't honestly expect anyone to be able to 100% meet both sides demands. I expect people to at least be willing to defend their claim. Not say " JUST GO LOOK AT THIS AND YOU WILL SEE WHY YOU ARE WRONG"

JDW001 gave a simple and honest explanation of why he doesn't believe in a nibiru style object. You ( or at least i think it was you,different people have responded so i am in a mild state of confusion as to who i am actually speaking to) said that you don't have to prove anything because you aren't making a positive assertion.

I never claimed that nibiru was real or unreal. Just that i want to see evidence for BOTH positions. You ignored that and said that you have nothing to prove, that the other guy has everything to prove. It is a dishonest tactic. I am not running around claiming that nibiru is real because some dude somewhere says so, and i am not about to say that it definitely doesn't exist without providing reason for my claim.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by DeathShield
 


If you had BOTHERED to read the entire thread, you will see where several of us have used "simple and easy to under stand terms" and to help educate people about orbital mechanics and planetary motion.

I've even stated that anyone that wants can play around with this themselves if they so desire with no knowledge in this area at all (using Universe Sandbox).

If you feel that it's possible to have a heavy mass object come into the solar system and change the planet's orbits to what they are now............please, by all means, set up the simulations and show us.

As you said: anything could be possible. So please show us how our planets evolved into the stable orbits they have now, using Nibiru's 3600 year orbit, and keep the Earth's orbit stable enough, for long enough for life to have developed here.

I'll be more than happy to accept it if someone can produce it, and I can repeat it myself.



posted on Jul, 26 2012 @ 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by PlanetXisHERE
John sounds like a reasonable guy, his main point on Nibiru is this:

He hopes it isn't true, but he cannot afford to ignore it.

If this is not true, and he looks like a fool, he would take that over it being true, and not taking the chance to warn people.


I don't know if anyone else has said it because I'm not reading through 500 comments, but this sounds a lot like a variation of Pascal's Wager.

I don't have an opinion either way on this Nibiru stuff. Just wanted to point that out.




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