The 'evidence' we are created by intelligent design

Apologies to those to which this content has been covered many times before

I believe that the very existence of 'Good vs Evil' and our free will to choose between the two is evidence we are created by intelligent design. In essence, it makes me believe in 'God'.

Look around in nature, animals do not kill for entertainment. They only kill to survive. It is nature's way.

As humans, we have choices. We can choose between Good and Evil.

Some people become firemen and risk their lives to save other people. Other people make it their mission in life to exploit others at any cost to those around them. If a lion needs to kill one animal to eat, that is all it will kill. Nature does not needlessly kill. Yet humans who exploit others do not stop in their pursuit of more wealth than they could ever possibly need, even if it means the death of millions.

Nature is what it is. Why would we, as a species, evolve naturally to have conscious thought and the abilility to choose anything? Why would nature through evolution create the notion of Good vs Evil which exists in the world today?

With current world events, it seems this world is almost certainly a creation of intelligent design. It feels like we are being tested. The forces of evil are very real, and yet there is still good in the world.

It just doesn't make sense to me that nature would create free will, that leads to a path of choosing between right and wrong, or good and evil.

So when I say I believe in God, I don't mean the Christian God. People have been on this planet way before the Bible came into being. Many of the world religions and those before the bible have a similar story. I believe humans were 'created', I can't even begin to imagine who by, but I do not think we evolved naturally on this planet. To me, God exists, he is our creator.

reply to post by Wonderer2012


What does God want us to do, what is the purpose of our lives?

reply to post by Wonderer2012

Look around in nature, animals do not kill for entertainment.

Have you ever seen a cat playing with a half dead mouse.....letting it go, catching it again, letting it go, catching it again.

Kind of a sick feline entertainment.?

Nature does not needlessly kill.

Lions will kill the cubs of a Lioness needlessly, to mate with it and claim ownership of a pride.

Originally posted by 0thetrooth0
reply to post by Wonderer2012

 

What does God want us to do, what is the purpose of our lives?

To learn and experience life in all its polarities.. I guess.

I don't necessarily see it as good versus evil as much as a conflict between our higher nature and lower nature. There are just far too many shades of gray for me to frame things in 'good versus evil'. Take, for example, a man who leads a life of thievery and murder so that he can support his family. Compare him to a man like Pablo Escabar who spends larges amounts of money to slightly improve the lots of many in Columbia. He does this for political power. A man who does good to do evil compared to a man who does evil to do good.

Since I don't really have a coherent point, I'll leave it at that, I just wanted to say that good and evil are too often not as easy to define as we'd like

? why is it that humans are the main meat eating primates ? From where did that blood lust come and why was it embedded to produce a stronger working force/army?

reply to post by TechUnique


You can't get to were we are in humanity by mathematically randomize numbers drawn from infinite, is it possible? sure but's not likely compared too..

It's more mathematically plausible and more likely that the events that driven humanity to the point it is now was guided by an external source. It's logical, it's rational, the evidence is in intellect/creative design is all around us.

When will people get that coincidences doesn't happen from random infinite numbers.

How can you create intelligent life from an un-intelligent universe? Does that seem logical to you? If you believe that it can then that's what I call insanity.

reply to post by Wonderer2012


What does people being on earth before the bible was created have to do with religion?

You say you don't believe in the Christian god based on this??

Originally posted by Pedro4077
Nature does not needlessly kill.

Lions will kill the cubs of a Lioness needlessly, to mate with it and claim ownership of a pride.

The second half of your sentence refutes the first half -- killing the cubs serves the purpose of mating and asserting dominance.

That said, "Nature" is not a thing that kills or doesn't, the natural world is, and it has no purpose, so it is nonsensical to claim that it has a process to determine whether a death is needed or not. If a tree falls over and crushes a bear, that would be a needless killing, but there was no intent to it, so it's kind of a lame claim.

reply to post by Wonderer2012


Nature is a very abstract term that suggests everything but humanity. In fact we are a part and product of nature, thus we see nature killing needlessly.

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
Big brains require lots of energy, meat is the obvious solution to supply that need from an evolutionary point of view.

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
I believe that the very existence of 'Good vs Evil' and our free will to choose between the two is evidence we are created by intelligent design. In essence, it makes me believe in 'God'.

I believe you are completely wrong and are trying to link our reality to a fictional entity to make something that doesn't exist in itself appear real and acceptable.

"Good and evil" are just human words for the opposites of something that is chaotic and multidimentional, a description of things that are undefinable because they are always a mix of eachother and cannot be seperated but because humans are still pondlife we need to keep it simple.

Religion lives by defining worlds and lives with little regard for logic or reason.

Religion is "flatland".

Enjoy the ride, THERE IS NO PILOT!

Originally posted by Pedro4077
reply to post by Wonderer2012

 

Look around in nature, animals do not kill for entertainment.

Have you ever seen a cat playing with a half dead mouse.....letting it go, catching it again, letting it go, catching it again.

Kind of a sick feline entertainment.?

Nature does not needlessly kill.

Lions will kill the cubs of a Lioness needlessly, to mate with it and claim ownership of a pride.

edit on 25-7-2012 by Pedro4077 because: (no reason given)

Good points, but surely it is instinct when a lion kills another's cubs in order to make sure his own seed will survive?

Humans consciously make decisions, we can live side by side yet will still commit murder to further their own wealth.

Would you compare Israel bombing Palestinians to a lion that kills another's cubs in order to spread his own seed?

Originally posted by nerbot

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
I believe that the very existence of 'Good vs Evil' and our free will to choose between the two is evidence we are created by intelligent design. In essence, it makes me believe in 'God'.

I believe you are completely wrong and are trying to link our reality to a fictional entity to make something that doesn't exist in itself appear real and acceptable.

"Good and evil" are just human words for the opposites of something that is chaotic and multidimentional, a description of things that are undefinable because they are always a mix of eachother and cannot be seperated but because humans are still pondlife we need to keep it simple.

Religion lives by defining worlds and lives with little regard for logic or reason.

Religion is "flatland".

Enjoy the ride, THERE IS NO PILOT!

I find it hard to see how you could not believe in 'good and evil'. Let me point out I kind of agree with you on religion. To believe in 'God' to me, is to believe in a creator, not so much the idea of heaven and hell etc.

Animals do not make conscious decisions. They act from instinct. They do not rationalise or have the ability to do so. They are guided by survival instinct.

However, SOMETHING gave us free will, why would nature give us this ability? Free will and conscious thoughts lets us see the difference between what is good and what is evil? Does it not?

Yes. Apparently Adam ate from the Tree of Knowledge before eating from the Tree of Life. If he had eaten first from the Tree of Life, the fruits of the Tree of Knowledge would not have proven to be so destructive.

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
Apologies to those to which this content has been covered many times before

I believe that the very existence of 'Good vs Evil' and our free will to choose between the two is evidence we are created by intelligent design. In essence, it makes me believe in 'God'.

Look around in nature, animals do not kill for entertainment. They only kill to survive. It is nature's way.

As humans, we have choices. We can choose between Good and Evil.

Some people become firemen and risk their lives to save other people. Other people make it their mission in life to exploit others at any cost to those around them. If a lion needs to kill one animal to eat, that is all it will kill. Nature does not needlessly kill. Yet humans who exploit others do not stop in their pursuit of more wealth than they could ever possibly need, even if it means the death of millions.

Nature is what it is. Why would we, as a species, evolve naturally to have conscious thought and the abilility to choose anything? Why would nature through evolution create the notion of Good vs Evil which exists in the world today?

With current world events, it seems this world is almost certainly a creation of intelligent design. It feels like we are being tested. The forces of evil are very real, and yet there is still good in the world.

It just doesn't make sense to me that nature would create free will, that leads to a path of choosing between right and wrong, or good and evil.

So when I say I believe in God, I don't mean the Christian God. People have been on this planet way before the Bible came into being. Many of the world religions and those before the bible have a similar story. I believe humans were 'created', I can't even begin to imagine who by, but I do not think we evolved naturally on this planet. To me, God exists, he is our creator.

Originally posted by Mkoll
I don't necessarily see it as good versus evil as much as a conflict between our higher nature and lower nature. There are just far too many shades of gray for me to frame things in 'good versus evil'. Take, for example, a man who leads a life of thievery and murder so that he can support his family. Compare him to a man like Pablo Escabar who spends larges amounts of money to slightly improve the lots of many in Columbia. He does this for political power. A man who does good to do evil compared to a man who does evil to do good.

Since I don't really have a coherent point, I'll leave it at that, I just wanted to say that good and evil are too often not as easy to define as we'd like

I take your point there, perhaps to say good and evil is too simple. But I say it purely for premise and the fact that we have the choice.

We can take two extremes, one of pure goodness- such as risking your life to save another, to an act of pure evil- say raping a child, two extremes of good and evil. We have free will to carry out both, and the question is, why would nature evolve us to have that ability? Why, for what purpose does it serve?

Perspective is everything. Good and evil are indeed in the eyes of the beholder. What I may find acceptable could very well be deplorable to the next guy.

I see the fundees are grasping at straws now

Good and evil, yin and yang, positive and negative exist for a reason. Balance in nature.

There is a Creator. Balance is His way of ensuring that no one force overcomes the whole to destroy the system and terminate what is, whether it be a game or a matrix or a dream state.

Good and evil also serve to test us to determine our worthiness to continue in our present state, spirit or flesh or both. Our presence or absence affects the system as a whole. For our presence or absence there is a separate but equal presence or absence. Think of it as matter and anti-matter.

The system is sophisticated. One need only look at the minutiae involved in something like the food chain. The microscopic is eaten by the small fish which is eaten by the large fish which is eaten by man who brings the cycle full circle by farming plants and animals, which are nurtured with various byproducts of the chain itself.

The sheer complexity of the universe argues for its inception and maintenance by an intelligent force.

Originally posted by samaka
reply to post by TechUnique

 

You can't get to were we are in humanity by mathematically randomize numbers drawn from infinite, is it possible? sure but's not likely compared too..

It's more mathematically plausible and more likely that the events that driven humanity to the point it is now was guided by an external source. It's logical, it's rational, the evidence is in intellect/creative design is all around us.

When will people get that coincidences doesn't happen from random infinite numbers.

How can you create intelligent life from an un-intelligent universe? Does that seem logical to you? If you believe that it can then that's what I call insanity.

edit on 25-7-2012 by samaka because: (no reason given)

Organization can be readily explained when you take into account the impact of ramification, precedence, and the existence of residual information that emerges as activity occurs within a naturally evolving contextual environment. And if you can't understand what any of that means, then just relax and give the glory to whatever god you feel best praising. It isn't really important that you understand any of it, since it does what it does in spite of you or any of us.

Physicists understand the nature of progressive development, and how ramification, precedence and residual information combine in default confluence to shape how material development progresses. There's nothing random about occurrence, but that doesn't mean that it's planned out ahead of time either. Do some research into concepts that directly detail what actually contributes to the obvious organized material structure that exists.

That is, if you're actually interested in finding an answer to what you profess to have questions about. If all you want to do is proclaim the majesty of the one true god, then screw it. Make up something that gives you goosebumps and call it a day. Like I said, it doesn't really matter what you believe. Reality will go on being as mundane and dependable as ever regardless of what any of us embraces.

reply to post by Wonderer2012

The 'evidence' we are created by intelligent design

It is said the the eyes are the windows into ones soul. What do we see when we take the time, to care, to look within.

Yes, oh yes, there is a myriad of wondrous things to see when we look out of those eyes, Planets, Stars, Galaxies, even Universes, Nebula's, and a host of others that have not met our eyes to this point. And we are programed to take them for granted.

We see plants and animals of various designs and beauty, animal life of all kinds. Flora and fauna to die for. But yet, all of this is programed to be taken for granted.

Our relationships with the ones around us, our siblings, mothers and fathers, coworkers and strangers, all, we take for granted.

We take our own lives with all the good, the bad, the beautiful, and the ugly, and we take it, for granted.

Our world, our existence, all of it, every single microscopic atom, to the vastness of space, all taken for granted.

For those who care to look, look inside those eyes, and ask a simple question, who did all the granting. We have been blessed beyond imagination.