United Nations Arms Trade Treaty – Final Working Document, page 1


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ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times


reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 01:04 PM by Libertygal
Originally posted by Maxatoria
given part of it says



Reaffirming the sovereign right and responsibility of any State to regulate and control transfers of conventional arms that take place exclusively within its territory pursuant to its own legal or constitutional systems;


it won't stop anyone buying an American made gun so it might actually improve the economy since it'll be easier to buy a made in america gun versus a foreign made item


Note that says with the state. Meaning, you cannot buy arms across state lines?

Not so sure if transfers means inter-statial or outer, but my first impression it means inter-statial among purchasers and sellers.

Conventional arms? Does that refer to certain types of weapons? And who deems what "conventional" means?

From what I understand, only a few states manufacture and sell their own arms within their own state borders.

Wasn't Wyoming one of them? That's the only way they were able to keep the Feds from regulating their arms to begin with.

I found the article about it, and I don't recall any other state taking these steps. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

billingsgazette.com...


Firearms Freedom Act passes; governor to sign it

March 04, 2010 12:00 am • JEREMY PELZER Casper Star-Tribune

CHEYENNE — Legislation asserting that firearms made, sold and kept only in Wyoming are exempt from all federal gun laws is set to become law after it easily cleared the Wyoming Legislature on Wednesday.

Supporters say the bill is mainly a symbolic shove against the federal government, and it remains to be seen whether the fight will carry over to the courts or even to Wyoming streets.

The Wyoming Firearms Freedom Act passed the state Senate without objection on Wednesday. Gov. Dave Freudenthal has indicated that he will sign the bill into law. Two other states, Tennessee and Montana, have enacted similar laws.

Wyoming’s Firearms Freedom Act, though, is harsher than those laws, as it states that any state or federal official who tries to enforce any federal gun law on a firearms made and sold in Wyoming could face a $2,000 fine and up to a year in prison.

While that might conjure up images of Wyoming sheriffs arresting U.S. marshals who try to enforce federal laws on Wyoming guns, state Rep. Allen Jaggi, R-Lyman, said the bill was mainly intended to be a symbolic assertion of Wyoming residents’ constitutional rights.




reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 01:23 PM by Libertygal
Looks like my assumption may be correct after reading it. It applies to states in every way you could imagine. It literally limits states that manufacture weapons to implement international guidelines for exportation to other *states*.


Each State Party, when authorizing an export, shall consider taking feasible measures, including joint actions with other States involved in the transfer, to avoid the transferred arms: being diverted to the illicit market; be used to commit or facilitate gender-based violence or violence against children; become subject to corrupt practices; or adversely impact the development of the recipient State.


The use of the word State here defines explicitly, non-international arms sales, as that is oulined in another paragraph. In other words, the arms dealer would be held responsible if the weapon is used in a crime against women, children, etc? Wow.


2. Each State Party Shall establish and Maintain a national control system to regulate the export of munitions to the extent necessary to ensure that national controls on the export of the conventional arms covered by Paragraph a1 (a)-(h) are not circumvented by the export of munitions for those conventional arms.


This looks to me like they have to set up the gun registry that Obama wanted that was slammed out of the House many moons ago as being too restrictive. Now, it will be mandated by the U.N. Keep in mind, this is inter-statial, meaning between states.


3. Each State Party shall establish and maintain a national control system to regulate the export of parts and components to the extent necessary to ensure that national controls on the export of the conventional arms covered by Paragraph A1 are not circumvented by the export of parts and components of those items.

- 4. Each State Party shall establish or update, as appropriate, and maintain a national control list that shall include the items that fall within Paragraph 1 above, as defined on a national basis, based on relevant UN instruments at a minimum. Each State Party shall publish its control list to the extent permitted by national law.


So every gun purchaser we be identified and sent to the U.N. in a database.

Really?

Buy em NOW.


ARTICLE 12

ENFORCEMENT

Each State Party shall adopt national legislation or other appropriate national measures regulations and policies as may be necessary to implement the obligations of this Treaty.


It also forces the States to adopt national measures? Federal Law overriding state law?

Read more at Ammoland.com:
www.ammoland.com...


reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 01:25 PM by Libertygal
reply to post by havok



If this gets ratified, does that not mean it becomes the law in the US?

The only way we do not lose our 2nd ammendment rights is if it does not get ratified.

If it is ratified, expect the uprising Obama is looking for.

Need I say more?

I *knew* I hear about this loophole somewhere...

www.radioshownotes.com...

Friday, July 13, 2012Treaty ratification loophole?
Don pointed out on our show today (July 13th) the specific language of the U.S. Constitution regarding the ratification of treaties. Article II, Section 2, paragraph 2 says:

He (the president) shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur...
No quorum is specifically referenced in the key passage, no notice requiremetns. Just approval by two thirds of those present.

Might this open the door to some kind of lame duck, late night, recess maneuver to ratify something like the Arms Trade Treaty now being negotiated at the U.N.?

I'd like to know if any other treaties might have been ratified previously under such a maneuver? Even if it hasn't been done before, how might the current U.S. Supreme Court view such a move? Speculation on the answer may vary widely especially after the creative interpretation from the court that allowed the Obamacare individual mandate to stand.

edit on 25-7-2012 by Libertygal because: ETA link



reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 06:08 PM by edaced4
reply to post by Libertygal



Wanted to throw this out there:

In addition to treaties, presidents often sign executive agreements with the heads of other nations. Executive agreements are not officially treaties, so they do not require the consent of the Senate. The U.S. Supreme Court, however, has ruled that executive agreements are part of the supreme law of the land, just like treaties.


(emphasis added by me)

Source

Please note, I have not researched this thoroughly...I had heard this on a radio show the other day, and it stuck in my mind...

Can the pres sign an "executive agreement" with the UN?

edit on 25-7-2012 by edaced4 because: (no reason given)
edit on 25-7-2012 by edaced4 because: (no reason given)


ETA:
If an executive agreement conflicts with state law, state law loses.

again, emphasis added by me...

Source
edit on 25-7-2012 by edaced4 because: added more info...



reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 08:09 PM by edaced4
reply to post by vor78



I hate to burst the proverbial bubble..but,

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding


U.S. Constitution - Article 6

in a sense, treaties do override the Constitution...
edit on 25-7-2012 by edaced4 because: (no reason given)




reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 08:42 PM by vor78
reply to post by edaced4



Yes, a treaty, if ratified, would be considered the law of the land...but it is still subject to review by the US Supreme Court under Article 3 Section 2. The Supreme Court can, in fact, strike down a treaty as unconstitutional, and therefore, a treaty does not supercede the constitution.



The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority;


Link
edit on 25-7-2012 by vor78 because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 25-7-2012 @ 08:52 PM by edaced4
reply to post by vor78



The U.S. Supreme Court, however, has ruled that executive agreements are part of the supreme law of the land, just like treaties.


Just sayin...

Mayhaps we'll see what POTUS does tomorrow?


reply posted on 26-7-2012 @ 03:37 PM by DoubleDNH
reply to post by Libertygal



I think a lot of people here are confusing the word STATE. In regards to UN measure, State usually refers to the Country as a whole. This agreement or treaty is a global treaty... they don't care if Billybob transfers his AR-15 from West Virginia to Arkansas... they are concerned when crates of guns head into war-ravaged parts of Africa to be used to slaughter thousands of innocent children.

For all the hype and fear-mongering I have ingested about this treaty, it sounds pretty harmless to me.

Just adding my 2 cents here ...I am in the middle of an International Relations course towards my MBA so I
thought I would add some input.

Link to the full text of the treaty

Link

edit on 26-7-2012 by DoubleDNH because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-7-2012 by DoubleDNH because: (no reason given)

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