World leaders promoting tolerance; but what do you really know about Islam?

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Ah, but if I am right, then you are working against what is right, and so working against your own best interests.

And clearly you do take issue.

Based on your perspective of what is right.

How could it be wrong for each of us to have individual rights? If we all lived by one simple belief that runs through many religions/beliefs/philosophy which is at its bare bones. Don't hurt anyone in any way. Live in peace. If everyone just excepted this as a universal truth then it wouldn't matter what ones personal beliefs are. Why should it matter as long as everyone followed this one little belief found in so many many belief systems? The right to exist as a free entity of the universe in peace and harmony.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


If defending ones own beliefs makes one a bigot, then we are all bigots.

Should we also embrace slavery or human sacrifice because some religious group believes those practices are right? Do we have the right to not allow practices that we feel are morally wrong, even when those practices are embraced by a religion?

reply to post by TRGreer


To me, the purpose of these discussions is to identify those truths that allow us to live in universal peace.

I see equal treatment of women as one of those universal truths we must all embrace in order to live in peace. Do you disagree with this?

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

If defending ones own beliefs makes one a bigot, then we are all bigots.

Should we also embrace slavery or human sacrifice because some religious group believes those practices are right? Do we have the right to not allow practices that we feel are morally wrong, even when those practices are embraced by a religion?

You are painting an entire religion a bad color because some of them are lunatics? If so, then I would bet your beliefs could be painted the same way. There are crackpots in every group.

But what are you defending your beliefs against? Do your beliefs not only affect you, and maybe those around you? Who is trying to take your beliefs away from you?

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

If defending ones own beliefs makes one a bigot, then we are all bigots.

Should we also embrace slavery or human sacrifice because some religious group believes those practices are right? Do we have the right to not allow practices that we feel are morally wrong, even when those practices are embraced by a religion?

Do you prefer "Modern Slavery"




Common sense !

Originally posted by poet1b

I see equal treatment of women as one of those universal truths we must all embrace in order to live in peace. Do you disagree with this?

absolutely. with zero doubt. it blows my mind that there are people in the world that would even think to disagree with this statement.

all humans should be treated equally. I would extend that to saying that, outside of our need for food, all animals should be treated the same.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by TRGreer

 

To me, the purpose of these discussions is to identify those truths that allow us to live in universal peace.

I see equal treatment of women as one of those universal truths we must all embrace in order to live in peace. Do you disagree with this?

Absolutely not! Did you find a post that some how implies I felt differently? For that matter have you seen a post from any of the Muslim participants that indicated they felt this way? I would like to see them if you have found them.



I want to clarify that I believe all people should be treated equally as individuals. This includes women of course. And if you have found something from me that sates otherwise as well as any post made by Muslim participants on this thread then I would like to see them.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Then we are in agreement, as I have already stated, I have no problem with Muslim who recognize that women have equal rights.

If you believe that women should have equal rights, then you are saying that Muslims, and all religions against equal rights for women, are wrong.

reply to post by TRGreer


Then what is your disagreement with what I have been saying all along?

Did you bother to read my disagreement with Islamic beliefs?

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Then we are in agreement, as I have already stated, I have no problem with Muslim who recognize that women have equal rights.

If you believe that women should have equal rights, then you are saying that Muslims, and all religions against equal rights for women, are wrong.

I don't want to appear pedantically semantic...but there is a real distinction that I want to point out here:

I do not believe that any belief system that would call for the subjugation of any human is a "religion" or in any way associated with spirituality.

I believe women should have "equal rights" (a term that makes me cringe, as it implies that there is such a thing as "unequal rights", which aren't rights at all), and that Muslims and all PEOPLE against equal rights for women are wrong. I don't care about the religion, only the people.

To blame a religion is to admonish the individual of responsibility for their actions.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by TRGreer

 

Then what is your disagreement with what I have been saying all along?

Did you bother to read my disagreement with Islamic beliefs?

I disagree with you labeling an entire religion as violent.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


You are not getting what I am saying here.

A large majority of Muslims use Sharia law to deny women their right.

Those of us who disagree with the part of Sharia law that denies women their rights, should speak out and say that they are wrong, same as all religions who work to deny women their rights.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by My.mind.is.mine

 

Do you follow Sharia law where the word of a woman is half the worth the word of a man.

Do you think you can separate Sharia law from Islam?

You might be too close to the religion to see the truth.

I don't have to know anything about Islam to know that religions create their own cultures.

Once again.. Let me break this down further.

Shari'a is the law of God, as dictated in the Qur'an and encompasses things such as the laws of prayer, fasting, pilgrimage, charity, ETC.

The Shari'a you think you know, is nothing but a pimped version of divine laws under the same name and has no real foothold in the faith at all.

How can the Shari'a you speak of be Islamic, when half of the stuff dictated in it, is AGAINST Qur'anic teachings?

So yes, I follow the REAL Shari'a, which has nothing to do with politics, the rule of law, courts, etc.


and what does "you might be too close to the religion to see the truth" mean??? YOU might be too FAR from it to even begin to GRASP the truth....

reply to post by TRGreer


No where have I made the claim you have Contributed to me.

It is very wrong for you to make a false statement such as this.

reply to post by poet1b


Yes. Those PEOPLE are wrong.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

You are not getting what I am saying here.

A large majority of Muslims use Sharia law to deny women their right.

Those of us who disagree with the part of Sharia law that denies women their rights, should speak out and say that they are wrong, same as all religions who work to deny women their rights.

The image of a woman wearing a veil from head to toe, a woman who gets unfair justice or a woman who is not allowed to drive is an all too familiar notion when it comes to women treatment in Islam. And while there are Muslim countries in the world that do implement many harsh rulings against women, this should not be portrayed as Islamic law. Many of these countries have cultural differences that go against the teachings of Islam. It should be noted that during pre-Islam Arabia women were used for fornication only and had no independence. The birth of a daughter in a family was considered humiliating and the practice of female infanticide was uncontrolled. When Islam came to being, verses in the Quran condemned the practice of female infanticide. Islam gave back many human rights to the woman and Muhammad(s) was even reported saying that “women are the twin halves of men.” A Muslim woman is allowed to reject and accept any suitor for marriage and has the right to seek divorce. There is nothing in Islam that forbids a Muslim woman from exiting her house and is allowed to drive. Also in regards to education, a woman is obligated to seek knowledge and it is considered a sin if she refuses.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan


To blame a religion is to admonish the individual of responsibility for their actions.

Your statement implies that adherents of strict doctrines will refuse to follow certain teachings of those doctrines if they see those teachings as immoral, and with hardcore believers that is an impossibility.

I'm sure you've met religious people who live their lives as close as they can to the teachings of their faith.

In my opinion people of this mindset seem to think their actions are unquestionable, and this, in a way, transfers responsibility away from the individual. So I think in some cases the teachings that some people follow are to blame.

reply to post by My.mind.is.mine


There are many who call themselves Muslims who disagree with you.

Sounds like we both disagree with those Muslims, or people who call themselves Muslims, according to your claims about the true Sharia law.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by My.mind.is.mine

 

There are many who call themselves Muslims who disagree with you.

Sounds like we both disagree with those Muslims, or people who call themselves Muslims, according to your claims about the true Sharia law.

You know why? Because of Saudi CULTURE and its contamination of Islam... There's plenty of muslims learning of this everyday, and unplugging from the corruption matrix, getting back to the basics..

Originally posted by seabhac-rua

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan


To blame a religion is to admonish the individual of responsibility for their actions.

Your statement implies that adherents of strict doctrines will refuse to follow certain teachings of those doctrines if they see those teachings as immoral, and with hardcore believers that is an impossibility.

I'm sure you've met religious people who live their lives as close as they can to the teachings of their faith.

In my opinion people of this mindset seem to think their actions are unquestionable, and this, in a way, transfers responsibility away from the individual. So I think in some cases the teachings that some people follow are to blame.

edit on 29-7-2012 by seabhac-rua because: (no reason given)

What i am saying in the above quoted statement is that the individual owns his behavior. They cannot blame their religion for how they behave. Right and wrong is obvious when applied via the most obvious of all natural laws: The Golden Rule.

I do not blame any belief system for the lunacy that its adherants follow. It is a system, not a person. People make things happen, not systems. Systems are merely tools.

And I must say that every religion out there has been made into a tool for some bad folks on more than one occasion.