World leaders promoting tolerance; but what do you really know about Islam?

reply to post by TRGreer


Yes, they will argue that people like the WBC are a minority. Well, maybe they are, but so are "Islamic extremists." They do not make up the majority or even a large amount of Muslims. The difference is they get the most media attention. The media will not put "moderate Muslims" (whatever that is) all over the air because it doesn't serve their agenda.

You wouldn't believe how many times I hear "Well how come Muslims aren't speaking out against terrorism?"

My answer is always the same. "There are! You just have to take some time and look it up! Because the media isn't going to report on it. That's a guarantee." But you can find countless examples of high profile Muslims and Sheikhs issuing FATWAS against terrorism by doing a simple Google search on it.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by mamabeth

 

We disagree, it's all the same god, so Is the Pagan gods, they are the result of Sun Worship.

Prove to me that they aren't the same Gods and then we can talk.Since they are ALL so similar in various different scriptures and holy books of various different cultures over various different times, you probably won't be able to do so.

At least count there are about 2600 Jesus type figures in various different religions will amost identical creation myths and stories.

~Tenth

edit on 7/26/2012 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)

A great book on this topic is called "The Jesus Mysteries" by Timothy Freke & Peter Gandy. Sorry a bit off topic but if more people opened themselves to the possibilities there would be so much more understanding between religions.

Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
reply to post by TRGreer

 

Yes, they will argue that people like the WBC are a minority. Well, maybe they are, but so are "Islamic extremists." They do not make up the majority or even a large amount of Muslims. The difference is they get the most media attention. The media will not put "moderate Muslims" (whatever that is) all over the air because it doesn't serve their agenda.

You wouldn't believe how many times I hear "Well how come Muslims aren't speaking out against terrorism?"

My answer is always the same. "There are! You just have to take some time and look it up! Because the media isn't going to report on it. That's a guarantee." But you can find countless examples of high profile Muslims and Sheikhs issuing FATWAS against terrorism by doing a simple Google search on it.

I totally agree. These people sit in the proverbial high chair and are spoon feed lies and they gulp it down without ever questioning where the slop came from or whats in it. It is a sad thing that people close themselves off from other good people simply because "world leaders" tell them to. Have we not our own minds? can we not make them up for ourselves. Maybe the act of actually doing your own research has become just to much work. Its far easier to suckle from the breast of deceit than to go and hunt down and feed yourself with the truth.

reply to post by TRGreer


It is a lot easier to just be told what to think. People love to be spoonfed. Conservative, Liberal, Muslim, Christian, White, Black, whatever. People love to have someone else telling them what is right without really looking into the facts of the matter.

Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786

Originally posted by The Old American
since people have no problem in ATS slamming Christians and Jews, while singing "Kumbaya" about Islam, who is currently responsible for quite a bit of murder and mayhem in the world right now.

/TOA

No offense intended, bro, because your comment is respectful in my opinion, but what posts are you reading? Almost every post that has anything to do with Islam has TONS of people weighing in and slamming Islam. I really don't think that Islam gets treated more fair than Christianity or Judaism on these forums.

I'm talking about the history of anti-Christian and anti-Jewish drivel that's rampant on ATS. Speaking out against Islam is relatively new here.

/TOA

reply to post by The Old American


It is? I had no idea. Haven't been on here that long. Perhaps it's because of the prescence of Muslims on this forum now?

*shrugs*

The fact is, though, now there is anti-religion sentiments all over here. It's not just aimed at Christians and Jews. Muslims, from what I've seen, have been the target of a lot of anti-Islam sentiments and accusations.

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786


I have been under the impression that everything was finished
when the Messiah was nailed to the cross.
If I am wrong,I will be corrected by my Bible study and prayer.

Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
If Christians and Jews actually lived by their holy book they'd be the biggest oppressive terrorist organization on the face of the planet (sort of like they were back during the Dark Ages, the Crusades, the Inquisitions, the Witch Hunts, the Conquests of the Western World, the enslavement of African people, etc.)

Originally posted by Murgatroid
Do you HONESTLY believe that the Vatican is or was ever run by Christians?

Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
I said no such thing. So this is a strawman.

THIS is a strawman:


That was a QUESTION: "Do you believe that the Vatican is run by Christians?"

I'm having to guess that Muslims AND Catholics both actually believe that the Vatican is run by Christians...

Seemed like a pretty basic question...

Discussion is fine until we start to expose the truth and then all of the sudden it becomes either a strawman, hate, or ad hominem.

reply to post by mamabeth


Well you believe that because that's what your Bible teaches. Of course your Bible study is not going to tell you differently.



I'd like to know where in your Bible that it says an angelic visit results in a false church. Or let me guess, you are making things up.

reply to post by Murgatroid


No. You asked a leading question. No one said anything about the Vatican being run by Christians. The Vatican wasn't even mentioned prior to your "question."

Discussion is based around issues and facts and evidence. A discussion becomes pointless when a person throws out unsubstantiated "questions" and then refuses to back them up with any evidence when asked for it (like your claim that Christianity and Islam were invented by the same people).

I only label something a strawman or an ad hominem when it is one. If you don't like it then don't do it.

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786


2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

There are others. They basically say that anyone that identifies themselves as an angel, and tells you to do works or worship on their behalf, they are false and leading you to worship Satan. The reason this doesn't affect Jews or Christians is that angels in either bible never reveal themselves as such until the person they are dealing with has already passed or failed whatever test is given them.

/TOA

reply to post by The Old American


Well Jesus was also accused of doing the work of Satan. What did he say to them? "If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand."

So it doesn't make sense for Satan to call people to worship the One God. That's what Muhammad was doing. He was sent with the message of the One God, Allah (called Elah in Aramaic), to the idol worshipping Meccans. He was also sent to correct the corruptions of the Christians (for one, worshipping a man as God which is a clear violation of the First Commandment), just as Jesus came to correct the corruptions of the message of the One God to the "lost children of Israel." The Jews of Jesus' time had corrupted God's pure message of submission to Him and so Jesus was sent by God to fix it.

reply to post by Fromabove


Spoken like a god damned fool. the quran specifically talks about how the same god of the quran gave the bible followers their orders, the jews their orders, and mohammed his. They are all considered pious for following the orders gave. They are all fine as long as they follow the orders god them. However the quran, just like the bible does talk of wiping out the dirty heathen pagans.

reply to post by TKDRL


Yes, I find it funny when Christians claim the Quran is inspired by Satan. Satan has really weird tactics. Calling people to worship God and give up their idols? Odd tactic. Very odd tactic indeed.

However the quran, just like the bible does talk of wiping out the dirty heathen pagans.

Not exactly it doesn't. Verses talking about military clashes were revealed for specific purposes, in accordance with specific events. People seem to lose sight of the fact that the Quran was actively revealed and a lot of times verses came as a result of things that were happening at the time.

The Quran does not teach to go out and kill people who worship differently. The Quran does teach that Muslims are not to be the aggressors in battle.

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment

Originally posted by FlyInTheOintment
Here are some quotes from the Koran which emphasise my point clearly:

"...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)

"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)

"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)

"And if they break their oaths after their treaty and defame your religion, then fight the leaders of disbelief, for indeed, there are no oaths [sacred] to them; [fight them that] they might cease." (Surah 9:12-)

Muslims need to defend themselves. Or are they not allowed because YOU said so?

"Indeed, those who disbelieve spend their wealth to avert [people] from the way of Allah . So they will spend it; then it will be for them a [source of] regret; then they will be overcome. And those who have disbelieved - unto Hell they will be gathered." (Surah 8:36-)

Presumably talking about idolators and atheists trying to deviate believers from the true path, for God will make the final Judgement that they'll be sent to Hell.

"Then Allah will accept repentance after that for whom He wills; and Allah is Forgiving and Merciful." (Surah 9:27-)

Wrong passage, right? You seem to have got it wrong. Again.

O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them. And their refuge is Hell, and wretched is the destination. (Surah 9:73-)

They swear by Allah that they did not say [anything against the Prophet] while they had said the word of disbelief and disbelieved after their [pretense of] Islam and planned that which they were not to attain. And they were not resentful except [for the fact] that Allah and His Messenger had enriched them of His bounty. So if they repent, it is better for them; but if they turn away, Allah will punish them with a painful punishment in this world and the Hereafter. And there will not be for them on earth any protector or helper. (Surah 9:74-)

And among them are those who made a covenant with Allah , [saying], "If He should give us from His bounty, we will surely spend in charity, and we will surely be among the righteous." (Surah 9:75-)

But when he gave them from His bounty, they were stingy with it and turned away while they refused. (Surah 9:76-)

So He penalized them with hypocrisy in their hearts until the Day they will meet Him - because they failed Allah in what they promised Him and because they [habitually] used to lie. (Surah 9:77-)

Did they not know that Allah knows their secrets and their private conversations and that Allah is the Knower of the unseen? (Surah 9:78-)

Anything looks bad when taken out of context as you did, don't you agree?

"Nor do they spend an expenditure, small or large, or cross a valley but that it is registered for them that Allah may reward them for the best of what they were doing." (Surah 9:121-)

Wow, you're wrong again!

"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating [in prayer], seeking bounty from Allah and [His] pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their description in the Torah. And their description in the Gospel is as a plant which produces its offshoots and strengthens them so they grow firm and stand upon their stalks, delighting the sowers - so that Allah may enrage by them the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds among them forgiveness and a great reward." (Surah 48:29)

Generally, Jews and Christians are both considered believers in Islam. Disbelievers are believers' eternal enemies. We must unite to defeat them, not squabble about stupid little irrelevant things like this that don't matter when you look at the bigger picture.

FlyInTheOintment, you're wrong about every single one. It doesn't make me see you in a particularly good way. All it points to in my eyes is an attempt to spread disinformation and lies. Whether you call him "Yahweh", "God" or "Allah", He condemns people who do such things.

Source is Quran.com.

Source is Quran.com. I also have an Quran translated into English at home, and it's almost exactly the same as the examples I gave. I believe that this puts this matter to rest.

reply to post by JasonT


In an ideal world it would, Jason. But with bigoted anti-Islam internet trolls this is not the case. They will continue to believe Islamophobic websites over what the Qur'an really says.

reply to post by TRGreer


Whenever you see phelps and his ilk here, we see hundreds of christians say "THAT'S NOT REAL CHRISTIANS!!!!11" Same as with abortion clinic bombers and such. But it's a OK to bash all muslims as one organism though....

Unfortunately, I think you're right, Abdullah. It just goes to show that Muslims must remain ever vigilant against those who would wish to spread disinformation and lies under the false image of working for God, or for everything "Good" in the world.

Just like Satan does.

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786


I admit I might be mistaken, it has been a while since I read it. I just recall seeing passages saying to leave christians that follow the law he gave them alone, and jews who obey the laws he gave them alone, but to wipe out the pagans. Maybe it's time to pick it up and dust it off and reread it soon.