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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by adjensen
Stop being obtuse.
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
The morality that I personally abide by is absolute. Clear enough?
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical
So the 10 commandments do not appeal to god because he is god. How are they absolute if they do not appeal to god? You said the opposite earlier.
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by adjensen
Okay, there is no such thing as a universal absolute morality, but my absolute morality is that you should not kill or hurt others, and I'm sure most people would agree with my personal absolute morality.
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by adjensen
What I'm saying is that just because everyone doesn't abide by the absolute moral standard does not mean it doesn't exist. Yes, not everyone abides to the absolute moral standard. Universal means everyone, not everyone abides to it, so a universal absolute moral standard does not exist.
Aren't we arguing semantics here? I thought you said you didn't pay attention to semantics.
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical
So the 10 commandments do not appeal to god because he is god. How are they absolute if they do not appeal to god? You said the opposite earlier.
They do appeal to God. Meaning they rest on His authority.
You're confusing "appeal" with "APPLY".
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by adjensen
Excuse me, I didn't specify enough I guess. There is a absolute moral CODE. Everyone doesn't follow this code, but that doesn't mean the code does not exist. The 10 commandments is this moral code, that's why I brought it up a couple of pages ago.
You have completely flipped the whole conversation on its head, stop derailing the discussion. Your tricks won't work on me, sorry.
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by DelayedChristmas
The part about the accident makes so much sense. God killed and injured others all so you could make it to work. That is a miracle!..... in your eyes, but in the eyes of the families that lost those loved ones in the crash, it is a tragedy.
Obviously if you believe god saved you, then he sacrificed those other peoples lives. How is that considered to be a miracle again? It's not, it's called chance. Why didn't god make those in the crash wake up 10 minutes later? What makes you think you are so important that god decided saved you, but not them?
You are looking through a very narrow window while ignoring everything else you do not want to see.edit on 31-7-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)
The part about the accident makes so much sense. God killed and injured others all so you could make it to work. That is a miracle!..... in your eyes, but in the eyes of the families that lost those loved ones in the crash, it is a tragedy.
Obviously if you believe god saved you, then he sacrificed those other peoples lives. How is that considered to be a miracle again? It's not, it's called chance. Why didn't god make those in the crash wake up 10 minutes later? What makes you think you are so important that god decided saved you, but not them?
You are looking through a very narrow window while ignoring everything else you do not want to see.
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical
We're not talking about the morals of each individual person, we're talking about the scale on which morality is based, which your god gave to Moses on Mt. Sinai. Are you doubting god gave the 10 commandments for a reason?
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical
So the 10 commandments do not appeal to god because he is god. How are they absolute if they do not appeal to god? You said the opposite earlier.
They do appeal to God. Meaning they rest on His authority.
You're confusing "appeal" with "APPLY".
The code appeals to us, there is no need for us to be a middle man. You will disagree, but that's because of your bias.
Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I'm sorry, it seems I have been confused. I was using the word 'absolute' and was really meaning to say perfect. That mix-up is my fault, I apologize.
Do you disagree that there is a perfect moral code through which someone can attain perfect morality? The 10 commandments are this perfect moral code in biblical terms.
Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” (Matthew 22:34-40 NIV)
That's an interesting question, and I would have to say yes and no. Yes, there could be such a code, but no, I don't think that anyone can achieve perfect morality (which would mean that they were the ultimate "good", all the time.)
The Ten Commandments definitely are not that perfect moral code -- they are too detailed, and too few, to contain teaching that provides comprehensive coverage of all issues. There is, for example, nothing about slavery, treating people equitably, or being charitable, though I think we could all agree that these are significant moral issues.
However, the Bible does include what I think is perfect moral code, Christ's two commandments:
Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” (Matthew 22:34-40 NIV)
Why is this superior? Because if you follow these two commands, you can't break any of the Ten Commandments, or a whole bunch of other stuff. It is a simple faith, but it is very difficult to achieve, impossible, some say.
So, can we set the concept of a moral code aside and get back to the basis of moral codes? Do you believe that absolute morality exists? Or is it merely subjective?
Your forgetting one main point that I discreetly talk about: You and I do not know all the variables in this equation.
I do not look at death as a tragedy anymore. It sucks to deal with at that present moment, but I know that God does everything out of love, and the death of the body isn't such a fretful topic. Every life and death was planned, each soul's purpose has been accomplished either before they were physically born, during their life or posthumously. Death of the flesh is just a momentary milestone for the eternal soul.
Why didn't God make those in the crash wake up 10 minutes later? Hypothetically, it was their time to go, their soul has done all what was needed for them to do. I didn't know why my mom was supposed to die of breast cancer when I was 7 years old, but after a little growing up, I realized it was just her time to go. When my mother passed, I was angry with Father. I would always have that burning hatred in my heart, but Father turned that burning hatred, into burning passion, although right now, its barely an ember, sad to say, but truthful.
I find this assumption very ironic.
Do you know what happened to the families of the people that died?
Do you know if they recovered?
Can you speak for the lessons they've learned, if any, from the deaths of their loved ones?
Do you know how those deaths impacted others?
I don't, and I don't think you do either.
However, my faith tells me everything happens for the good; We just need the darkness to appreciate the light sometimes.