Christians... riddle me this!

Entertaining hyperbole for a moment I consider heaven to be multidimensional and so our concepts of locality and such may not apply. Heaven could exist outside of time so eternity would have a different concept as well. As for the minutia of heaven I am unsure although I have contemplated it but I feel when we are there our wills will align perfectly with the lords. Ideas like playing your favorite video game for eternity or some such rubbish would just not be a concept there.

Sense gratification may not exist or may exist in a form that is alien to us. Maybe more empathic. Then again it may just be very similar to this world only without sin which again we can not really grasp the concept of a totally selfless society devoted to a single cause, the will of the creator.

Interesting topic OP. This is the type of conjecture that I can enjoy because it forces us to think about things beyond our mortal troubles and allows us to get out of our bodies so to speak.

reply to post by Akragon


What's next??
This is a question someone in hell asks. 'What is next?' is a question that says 'I am not fulfulled, something is missing, there must be more, this can't be it.' Someone experiencing lack is living in Hell.
Heaven is the state of completeness, the state of wholeness. Heaven is when you are fulfilled, statisfied.
Hell is feeling separtate from life and Heaven is knowing you are life.

Another idea I have had about the afterlife I will bounce off of everyone.

I have considered the implications of some of the multiverse concepts and applied them to the afterlife. This is all speculation but suppose we do not have specific duties or requirements in a heavenly realm but instead relive our lives with full awareness of God but only this time you live out every endless variant of every decision you made in your life only with the ability to always make the right choice that is according to the will of God. You would have a simultaneous awareness of all of these selves and so this endless joy loop would come from doing good always and seeing the good you do for others.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Akragon

 

What's next??
This is a question someone in hell asks. 'What is next?' is a question that says 'I am not fulfulled, something is missing, there must be more, this can't be it.' Someone experiencing lack is living in Hell.
Heaven is the state of completeness, the state of wholeness. Heaven is when you are fulfilled, statisfied.
Hell is feeling separtate from life and Heaven is knowing you are life.

I like this statement. Very profound.

Heaven is right here and right now but humans don't see the glory of God because they are busy trying to escape, they look to later for relief, they look to their thoughts, they turn away from heaven.
The chatter in their heads distract them from what is real. Now is real but humans 'spend time' in their imaginations and the imagination can be Hell. Any thing, any situation can be imagined but the glory of God (heaven, the kingdom) cannot be imagined.
The glory of God is life without the commentary, without the narration of man. Stop thinking and the kingdom will be revealed.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Akragon

 

What's next??
This is a question someone in hell asks. 'What is next?' is a question that says 'I am not fulfulled, something is missing, there must be more, this can't be it.' Someone experiencing lack is living in Hell.
Heaven is the state of completeness, the state of wholeness. Heaven is when you are fulfilled, statisfied.
Hell is feeling separtate from life and Heaven is knowing you are life.

So you're saying trust in what is...

I agree with that...

reply to post by Akragon


The glory of God is doing it's own thing, when this is recognized, faith is all there is.

You might 'think' you are doing life but life is doing you. Heaven is the state when you realize that you are not doing anything and neither is anyone else. You just get to watch the show.
Sit back, rest in peace and let God.

If you 'think' you are doing life then you are carrying excess baggage and life is heavy. You do not have to 'think/do' life, life is happening. Just stop and see what happens. When you stop, life continues without you and it is light as a feather.
It is only you believing that you can 'think/do' life that makes it unbearable (hell).

Originally posted by Akragon
For years i've been hearing christians say "we go to heaven to be with Jesus"... That is the untimate goal...To be with him for eternity. Now im not making fun here... I seriously want to know what you think...

Stars for all serious replies... no trolls...

What i want to know is... what next? Do we just sit around smiling...."yay we made it!"

Once you're with Jesus, what will you do together?

What is there to do in heaven with Jesus once you get there?

Is it like a huge meditation session?

More praying?

Golf?

Beers?

What do you think?

edit on 25-7-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Life continues as before but without the mind made suffering. Without the mind telling you how wrong eveything is, life is beautiful.

It says...

No eye has seen,
no mind conceived,
the glorious things that God has prepared for those who love him

Originally posted by r2d246
It says...

No eye has seen,
no mind conceived,
the glorious things that God has prepared for those who love him

No eye has seen God and no mind can concieve God but you can see the glory of God.
God prepared this moment but man does not see this moment, man sees the inside of his mind. Man 'thinks' he sees the future and man 'thinks' he sees the past. But really there is only this moment.

reply to post by Akragon

What i want to know is... what next? Do we just sit around smiling...."yay we made it!"

That is pretty important in itself.
It would greatly affect how we view eternity, either with happiness, or with despair, which is what you would feel after experiencing going to that other place.
After all the happy reunions and that sort of thing, then you would be free to engage in other pursuits, something you would not be able to do if you were in that other place.
Heaven is basically the abode of God, and this is where you would receive the approval to proceed on to whatever it is that you want to do, as far as having a new life, wherever.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Heaven is the abode of God. Mind (hell) is the abode of man.

Has not the real story always been that Jesus lives in each of us, and that greater he that is within you than he that is within the world.

Heaven and Hell exists in the minds of man. When there is a greater good, their must be a lesser good. The greatest goods are the abundance of truths and the lesser is the abundance of lies.

Jesus and the Essene ideals for Heaven were to have it exist right here on Earth, and this never changed in their language to the point that Jesus exists in each of you. The body of Christ is the pious church members speaks to the same definition.


In the End-Times this message is lost and the world is controlled via an abundance of lies and thus man is in the pits of hell, and this due in large part to the loss of the Christian knowledge for Heaven and Hell and what Jesus sought for man to protect.

When the End-Times hell becomes so very great, the demand to return to the true values of Jesus and to return Heaven onto the Earth will have a reincarnation of Jesus into a living person once again.

Jesus soul, his memory, is made immortal via his need for good stewardship towards others and bringing them the truth. This was guaranteed by the passion for a persecuted man that was attempted to be executed by the state due to the corrupt influence of religion being against his teachings of the old world gods. How could the state execute a man that even they declaired was faultless, except by the corruption and power of a non-pious and corrupt religion that lacked truth. It is that burning passion to recognize that wrong placed upon an innocent man that keeps the story of Jesus alive and burning in the minds of man.

An inspiration to others, an immortality, and the model to which Christians should strive to follow Jesus. But the Christians have all strayed from the message and excute the memory of Jesus with their Pharisee and Sadducee extremes of mind from following the wrong concepts for god.

Look no further than Earth to find where Jesus exists in the minds of man and how man appears to have forgotten the message of the need for abundant truths to have Heaven Upon the Earth. What is happening now is a loss of truth in religion, many sins against the memory and message of Jesus, and the world is lowering into the pits of Hell and a world running on lies more than truth.

This effect stems from the church more intent on a god theme intent on money and wealth more than one based upon living in each others care, with the more socialitic views of Jesus and the Essene. In this day and age, almost every high concept of Jesus has been white washed into money and power, rather than benevolence and stewardship. It is literally the dichotomy that existed between the concepts of Enlil and Enki, one is based on exploitation of man and the other based upon allowing man to be equal to them.

The organized churches have forgotten all the real messages of Jesus over the organized churches persuits of money and power. Such corruption of that faith in Jesus leaves the world nearest Hell on Earth, rather than Heaven upon the Earth and the values needed to maintain Heaven upon Earth. Each of the luke warm Christians is the problem because each has lost the light for truth and Heaven on Earth.

Your rewards shall be Hell, until such a time that Jesus values and truth become reincarnate in mankind, then Jesus returns and one finds Heaven was always designed to be right here on Earth for all.


All these pretty books on Heaven in the sky or some far off planet are the games of the corrupt version of god, that was Enlil, and the god of those that corrupted the state to kill an innocent man named Jesus.


These basic concepts are the roots for the founding of America, which is based upon Equality for all, meaning no Kings / gods calling the shots over Governments. America also insisted on separation for church and state, so that no 2nd temple demands to kill a pious man could happen over these seeking power and control using Enlil type gods. But most Chrsitians fail to notice the best mechanisms of America came from prevention and lesson learned from these old wrongs.

But, in America, these same extremes of religion that existed in the times of Jesus now attempt to blot out both the major concepts of Jesus and the Essene and push the Earth toward more and more lies and basically hell. But one can find it again, because the truth really can set people free, and with truth comes equality, no kings/gods, and every person is on par with god and heaven exists on the Earth as Jesus teachings sought.

Anyone looking for Jesus need look no further than Earth and the few true Christians that haven't lost the message, and they find the keys to Heaven on Earth, the return path to equality, and the truth sets you free to know Jesus and Heaven on Earth.

Well as a being in a 3 or 4 dimensional place at the moment and not having the mind to imagine what a 6 ,9 ,or possibly 12 dimensional space would be like ,its hard to say what you could do there ...Fly maybe ? peace

I think it would be like a huge family reunion. Jesus is said to be our father in heaven, so I think BBQ games and sure why not kumbaya with smores. To be with him you are at complete peace, joy , and happiness, to be as one with all creatures and beings around you. I hope for a cabin in the mountains with a few large kitties to keep me company..... but thats just me.

Originally posted by Murgatroid
There are a lot of good books on the subject. One of my favorites is written by Rebecca Springer:

"She explains how Heaven's inhabitants are frequently engaged in missions or tasks that are an extension of God's callings and gifting in their earth-life."

Because the book was written in 1898, it can be read online for free here.

"Within the Gates" (formerly titled "Intra Muros"), which was originally published in 1898, is based on the 19th century vision of heaven by Rebecca Springer (1832-1904).

After my wife died in 2010, for a couple of weeks I had a number of... "visions" isn't a good word, but maybe "impressions" would work... of where she was and what it was like. We were so close during our lives together that I felt like there was still a slight connection and I was experiencing some small sliver of where she was.

That ended, as I said, in a few weeks, but I experienced something last winter that seemed, to me, to validate it. I've read every book that I could find on the afterlife, and none of them really seemed to capture those impressions, so I began to feel like the validation I'd had was all that there was -- the impressions were of something that I would do in the future, not where my beloved wife was.

Then, last week, I came across a post of yours in another thread, and the reference to Springer's book. I downloaded it and was utterly shocked by the end of the first chapter. I could have written that book, because the description that Springer gives is almost exactly what the impressions that I had in May 2010 were.

Thank you, so very much, for posting that link. As foolish as it might sound, that book, and what I see as a total validation of my impressions, has brought profound joy to my heart.

reply to post by Akragon


It will be like Earth life is without sin and corruption. No aging, sickness, or disease. The best of life without any of the evils in a locale exponentially greater than the most beautiful place on Earth.

Since the OP likes to couch the discussion in the riddler form, consider that religion has been referred to as an opiate for the masses by Karl Marx, but then one looks and the very same effects that opiates trigger in the brain are held in common by those with high spiritual thinking. Both appear associated with additive traits and craving for more. The same brain effects trigger deaming, which isn't held as reality. And the same brain effects are held in common with most all mental disorders and drug addiction.

Of Serotonin and Spirituality
Scientists see a biological underpinning for religiosity, and it is related to the neurotransmitter serotonin.


By: PT Staff

Serotonin, the brain chemical crucial to mood and motivation, also shapes personality to make you susceptible to spiritual experiences. A team of Swedish researchers has found that the presence of a receptor that regulates general serotonin activity in the brain correlates with people's capacity for transcendence, the ability to apprehend phenomena that cannot be explained objectively. Scientists have long suspected that serotonin influences spirituality because drugs known to alter serotonin such as '___' also induce mystical experiences. But now they have proof from brain scans linking the capacity for spirituality with a major biological element.

The concentration of serotonin receptors normally varies markedly among individuals. Those whose brain scans showed the most receptor activity proved on personality tests to have the strongest proclivity to spiritual acceptance.

Reporting in the American Journal of Psychiatry, the researchers see the evidence as contradicting the common belief that religious behavior is determined strictly by environmental and cultural factors. They see a biological underpinning for religiosity, and it is related to the neurotransmitter serotonin.


Psychology Today Magazine, Nov/Dec 2003
Last Reviewed 8 Jul 2008

So, part of the quest for the riddle of those that both accept and get off on these spiritual issues appears to be serotonin linked. Belief in the Spiritual Jesus and the dreams of Heaven appear to be one of the most sought after happy thoughts. Yet, Persons that take certain drugs essentially loose their need for religion or getting off on spiritual waking dreams because it controls serotonin.

Now, the spiritual mind has a problem to deal with via the applications of sciences, that tells spiritual dreaming is akin to dreams and departure from reality thinking.

The Serotonin System and Spiritual Experiences
Jacqueline Borg, Psychol., M.Sc., Bengt Andrée, M.D., Ph.D., Henrik Soderstrom, M.D., Ph.D., and Lars Farde, M.D., Ph.D.

OBJECTIVE:

The serotonin system has long been of interest in biological models of human personality. The purpose of this positron emission tomography (PET) study was to search for relationships between serotonin 5-HT1A receptor density and personality traits.

It does appear there is some substance to the need for religion and the spiritual dreams kept up for the spiritual mind to be happy via serotonin tigger effects, which is the same effects seen in dreaming and drug addictions.

reply to post by Akragon


The bible's version of heaven promises a new incorruptible body as well as a fulfilling day of work. Every. Damned. Day...

I don't know how that's supposed to entice people who are on their death beds right before finally being able to retire.