Christians... riddle me this!

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Ahhh, so the souls and spirits of the righteous dead live inside every believer? That makes infinitely more sense, thanks JM!!!

You may want to explain that, rather than just post a link to a web-site. (whenever you have time, that is)
You said earlier, 'do a word study'.
OK, the results are that every instance of "Kingdom of Heaven" is found in Matthew, and they (that, and the other, the 'kingdom of God') are otherwise interchangeable.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Nowhere in the bible does it say you have to die to go to heaven, the same goes for hell. Your comment about dead people being inside of us is absolutely not true and makes no sense.

Matthew 7:13

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small Is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

This verse quite clearly states that going through the narrow gate (the one with the fewest people) is the gate to life and the wide gate (the one with the most people) is the gate to destruction.

Christianity is the biggest gate there is because it has the most people who follow it, my gate is the small gate, one that few choose to pass through.

If few people find the gate to life, then why do most people follow christianity? Because christianity (any religion for that matter) is actually the gate to destruction. It promotes the destruction of Earth because it teaches that there is something better after this life and that leads to people not caring about mother Earth, which leads to those who erected the gate to profit off of your ignorance. I'm not saying ignorant in a negative way, just what I believe to be true, no offense.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Ahhh, so the souls and spirits of the righteous dead live inside every believer? That makes infinitely more sense, thanks JM!!!

You may want to explain that, rather than just post a link to a web-site. (whenever you have time, that is)
You said earlier, 'do a word study'.
OK, the results are that every instance of "Kingdom of Heaven" is found in Matthew, and they (that, and the other, the 'kingdom of God') are otherwise interchangeable.

edit on 27-7-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

I can't post a word study. And first, I'd like you to explain how the domain of God, the angels, the dead elects and saints of God et cetra can be " within you".

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Nowhere in the bible does it say you have to die to go to heaven, the same goes for hell. Your comment about dead people being inside of us is absolutely not true and makes no sense.

That was the point, it was a sarcastic reductio ad absurdum.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Why didn't you address the first part of my post? Anything you can say to explain that part away?

ETA: I detected the sarcasm you were using, so I agreed with your sarcasm while presenting my own point about your belief that you must die first to reach heaven.

Am I wrong in assuming that is what you believe?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Imagine the spiritual realm as a lake of water, clear and still. Now imagine a pebble hitting the water, now imagine that splash of water as a persons soul.

Now imagine a handful of pebbles being thrown into the pond, each individual splash of water is the soul of each individual person. Every splash is individual and unique, yet all the splashes are composed of the same water, the same spiritual energy, or consciousness.

Each time a splash settles back into the lake, that represents someones soul going back to the source. Each splash only has a short lifespan, but the lake itself existed long before the splash was ever made and will exist long after that splash settles. The same thing applies to our souls, and the spirit (all souls combined a.k.a. the holy ((whole-y))spirit).

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I'd refer you to Jesus's story of Lazarus and the rich man.

reply to post by adjensen

It's not always about you, buttercup.

"Buttercup"? REALLY?

This is just as bad as the new guy 'borntowatch' or whatever, who called me "sweetie" or "lady" or whatever, and said "Don't patronize me." I looked at that member's profile/posts and see that "patronizing" is a favorite "accusation" of theirs (his/hers/I don't give a FF!).

DUDE! Really?

You are one of the meanest, most narrow-minded and judgmental people I have ever run across....
just sayin'.
Shame on you.

I'm sorry you lost your beloved wife, but, really? The bitterness has to spill over here?

NOT impressed. Nasty, that's what you seem to be. Nasty. Mean.
I don't care if you're a "debater" or whatever. Show some empathy and compassion. It goes a lot further than condemnation, ridicule, and superiority.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I can apply that story to the real world as well.

Lazarus represents all poor people, the rich man represents the rich and powerful.

The story represents the rich of the world being put in the place of the poor after being reincarnated onto another place like Earth, or another Hades where the rich dominate the poor and take advantage of them and their planet.

One thing I find interesting is that Abraham is in Hades when the rich man is sent there. Isn't christianity an Abrahamic religion? Why would Abraham be represented as the as the main figure in Hades? He's the one that represents all the major religions of the world here, including christianity. So the question is, why is Abraham depicted as being in Hades and the main focus while talking about Hades?

The answers is : All religions stemming from Abraham run the show here on Earth (hell or Hades) and since Lazarus had switched places with the rich man and was at Abrahams bosom when Hades was introduced, that means Abraham is the 'father' of hell on Earth, because he spawned the major religions on Earth and he is the one described as nurturing the now 'rich man', or Lazarus.

The 'gulf' that seperates the now poor rich man and the now rich Lazarus represents money and the power that money provides.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

I can't post a word study. And first, I'd like you to explain how the domain of God, the angels, the dead elects and saints of God et cetra can be " within you".

Just explain what your point is.
Like how you get "the souls and spirits of the righteous dead live inside every believer".
Do you have a verse for that?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I can apply that story to the real world as well.

Lazarus represents all poor people, the rich man represents the rich and powerful.

The story represents the rich of the world being put in the place of the poor after being reincarnated onto another place like Earth, or another Hades where the rich dominate the poor and take advantage of them and their planet.

One thing I find interesting is that Abraham is in Hades when the rich man is sent there. Isn't christianity an Abrahamic religion? Why would Abraham be represented as the as the main figure in Hades? He's the one that represents all the major religions of the world here, including christianity. So the question is, why is Abraham depicted as being in Hades and the main focus while talking about Hades?

The answers is : All religions stemming from Abraham run the show here on Earth (hell or Hades) and since Lazarus had switched places with the rich man and was at Abrahams bosom when Hades was introduced, that means Abraham is the 'father' of hell on Earth, because he spawned the major religions on Earth and he is the one described as nurturing the now 'rich man', or Lazarus.

The 'gulf' that seperates the now poor rich man and the now rich Lazarus represents money and the power that money provides.

In fact, Abraham could represent money because he is depicted as nurturing the now rich Lazarus. Since Abraham is the main focus while the story is shifted the Hades, that mean he could represent Satan and Satan represents the influence money has on the man Abraham.

Originally posted by Akragon
Now im not making fun here... I seriously want to know

I'm just below the stage of good at verbal psychology, which means it can be written down, and I know that you saying my quote of you, means that you are lying. I don't even really want to argue about it, by quoting you and demonstrating how much of a liar you are.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I can't post a word study. And first, I'd like you to explain how the domain of God, the angels, the dead elects and saints of God et cetra can be " within you".

Just explain what your point is.
Like how you get "the souls and spirits of the righteous dead live inside every believer".
Do you have a verse for that?

Follow me, you're the one who challenged my claim that the kingdom of God and kingdom of heaven were not referring to the same thing. That would make your position one of them being interchangeable terms. So when Christ said: " the kingdom of God is within you" that according to you would be heaven is inside humans. That when the dead righteous go to be with the Lord it's a location or dimensionality within a person.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Lazarus and the rich man were real people, one in Sheol/Hades and one in Abraham's bosom/Paradise.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Says who? Man is the one who created that story, not god, it even reads like a fictional story.

Why is the rich man not named? If Jesus knew the name of the the poor man, why didn't he know the name of the rich man? Reason one is because the ones who are in power and actually run things do not stand in the spotlight, they stay anonymous just as the rich man is anonymous. Reason two is because if you put a name on the old man, that creates sympathy for him which translates as christianity being sympathetic to the poor man.

It's all an illusion wrapped in metaphor, you just refuse to see it and instead decide to ignore it because of your fear of hell. You 'know' that if you even entertain the idea that you will be sent to hell to suffer forever.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I see you completely sidestepped my point on the gates. Anything you would like to add to that?

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by adjensen

 

It's not always about you, buttercup.

"Buttercup"? REALLY?

This is just as bad as the new guy 'borntowatch' or whatever, who called me "sweetie" or "lady" or whatever, and said "Don't patronize me." I looked at that member's profile/posts and see that "patronizing" is a favorite "accusation" of theirs (his/hers/I don't give a FF!).

DUDE! Really?

What are you on about? Go look at that post -- I wasn't talking to you, and I don't know why you think "buttercup" is an offensive word anyway, particularly in the flippant way I was using it.

It seems like every post of yours that I run across has you raging about someone treating you poorly or casting some sort of aspersion on you. You have some major anger issues, or something else going on that has nothing to do with me or my opinions, and I'd recommend that you calm down, read what is written before flying off the handle and if you can't manage that, maybe this isn't the best place for you.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

So when Christ said: " the kingdom of God is within you" that according to you would be heaven is inside humans. That when the dead righteous go to be with the Lord it's a location or dimensionality within a person.

So you aren't talking about anything in the Bible but an imaginary hypothetical of something that might come up in a conversation or something.

Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach this message: “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.”
Mat 5:10 “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to them,

So, according to your logic, God and all that is right next to you, and we own it, if by saying "heaven" it means literally a physical heaven with everything in it.
You still haven't made any sort of theses statement to explain what your point is really.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
One thing I find interesting is that Abraham is in Hades when the rich man is sent there. Isn't christianity an Abrahamic religion? Why would Abraham be represented as the as the main figure in Hades?

The belief is that, prior to Christ's ascension forty days after the resurrection, no one entered heaven ahead of him. So where were the good people who had died before then? They were nestled "in the bosom of Abraham", a place that wasn't heaven, but was still a good place to be. How do we know that it was a good place to be? Remember Jesus' words to the thief on the cross - "you will be in paradise this day" - and since that couldn't be heaven, it had to be with Abraham.

The story of Lazarus and the rich man gives some insight into what people believed that place to be. People seemed to have physical being, they were able to speak across the gulf of the condemned and the protected, etc.

It isn't in the Bible, but it is in early Church tradition that Christ spent the time between his death and resurrection in the "Harrowing of Hell" -- essentially preaching the good news to those who had died before him. You can find a retelling of it in The Gospel of Nicodemus (Part 2) (note that this document is a forgery, a non-canonical work, and should not be read as something that the church taught from, but rather as a historical work.)

This is, attested to in some versions of the Apostles Creed. For example, the Anglican Church's "Book of Common Prayer" includes the line "He descended into hell" here:

And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord,
Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
Born of the Virgin Mary,
Suffered under Pontius Pilate,
Was crucified, dead, and buried:
He descended into hell;
The third day he rose again from the dead;
He ascended into heaven,
And sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

Other churches, however, don't include it. My Methodist Church, for example, goes right over it:

suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;
the third day he rose from the dead;
he ascended into heaven

I suspect that's a bit of a reflection of Sola Scriptura - it isn't in Scripture, so it isn't a valid teaching. But there must be some wiggle room, as both the Anglicans and Lutherans accept it.

But the issue is probably nowhere near as important as all the text I've just spewed, lol.