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A Question for Channelers and Others Who Believe They Interact With Psychic Entitities.

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posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by Aronolac
 


How would the OP know that Miss Manitoia was not merely an observer of his/her NDE experience? Spirits of all natures are capable of observation.

I am not of the Orthodox faith, but a belief that I find noteworthy is that at the moment of death, the soul enters the astral realm, the principality of the air. They also believe that this is the domain of the more deceptive spirits who are all too eager to influence a mortal soul upon its entrance to that realm.
Like ants to honey, feeding off of whatever faith is given to their deceptive yarns.

Just because a spirit claims to have knowledge of something you experienced, doesn't mean that the spirit is not ultimately malicious in nature.

I am not frightened by the unknown, but I am highly suspect of it until proven otherwise.

Our estate is here. Their estate is there. Those that walk in Truth that are from the spiritual estate are not wont to engage those from the physical estate on a regular basis. Those that walk in Truth briefly come to do their task, then leave.
They are not wont to draw attention to themselves or offer their services.




posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by stupid girl
 


Dear . . . Girl

(I can not bring myself to call you “s . . . . d”)

How would the OP know that Miss Manitoia was not merely an observer of his/her NDE experience? Spirits of all natures are capable of observation.

Aronolac:
You rightly question how the observation may have been perceived by the angel, Manotia. She is a glorious angel and is the chief of all angels below the rank of Supernaphim. While that proves nothing about what you ask, it speaks to her rank and her authority to speak truthfully about her ministry to the near death experiences as is the case here.

Her name is pronounced (phonetically) MAH no SHA. The “tia” ending is (the sha sound) the spelling used by most angels to identify themselves by name. Her associate is Loyalatia. Not in every case is this observed, but it is almost universally true with Seraphic names in these parts.

When you say “spirits of all natures are capable of observation”, you observe correctly. I did not include those who were present at the rejuvenation of Aquestion. Be assured there were dozens and not all are required to identify themselves to us. Present with Manotia was Lanaforge, a high Son in charge of the administration of the planetary pool of resources that makes our sphere somewhat special. His concern with Aquestion was to see if saving her life would benefit others to learn of her experience in telling it and what she saw. Aquestion has rendered good service to mankind while addressing her questions here in a public form.

It may be reported that Lanaforge has determined that there are several incidences just like hers in this region, and that all involved were resuscitated on the same date she experienced her life restored. On average, this event (as you call it, the NDE) is not especially abnormal and is highly beneficial for survivors. Their experiences reinforce the notion that there is someone in charge, and that the assembly before the great God is always vigilant to preserve life in the flesh if at all possible to do so. There is no substitute for it although sometimes when a life is cut short, the mansion worlds do find a way to overcome deprivation of life in the flesh.

Manotia is the chief of her kind and is present with her associates who act to save lives quite frequently. Her administrative abilities are legion through our local space area, and her work is known right to the shores of Paradise. You may be interested to know that the battalion of angelic services rendered on earth nearly equals the entire population of your planet, and the Seraphim are applied to all sorts of service where life is sacrosanct and therefore is life given the highest priority to be continued where injuries or errors can be overcome.

Thank you.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 03:26 PM
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I had a member posting on my thread www.abovetopsecret.com... about his interactions with other beings during his OBEs. His user name is Alfred2012. He begins on page 41 of the thread, and has many pages of information he received following, if you or others would like to read them.

Here is a portfolio he compiled of the different beings he encountered. www.engelkommunikation.net...



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by Aronolac
...When you say “spirits of all natures are capable of observation”, you observe correctly. I did not include those who were present at the rejuvenation of Aquestion. Be assured there were dozens and not all are required to identify themselves to us.

Aronolac, you seem like a really nice person, but I have two questions:

1.) Why would a spirit decline to identify itself?

2.) Why do those from this particular spiritual realm often seem to not only contradict each other (I'm talking about the messages received through various "Channels") but also fail to give any "proofs" such as foreknowledge of an event say?



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 06:23 PM
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Dear OP and to all others concerned.

Perhaps a very interesting study and investigation into spiritualism and all of its wonders from many decades ago would be in order. I am always reading about how people are just discovering it, or its powers, or how it has been proven scientifically, etc. etc. This has all been done many times over.

Here is a most interesting read on the subject with many first-hand accounts and experiences:

www.a2z.org...

ETA certain quotes of interest:


...But this is only the fist lesson, and these comparatively uplifting experiences belong chiefly to it. Later experiences will demonstrate, as all Spiritists will freely acknowledge, that there are "evil spirits," 'lying spirits," which time and again deceive them; and the messages and revelations, often foolish and nonsensical, gradually lead the investigator to a disbelief of the Bible and the Creator, while it teaches and exalts "the spirits" as the only sources of knowledge aside from nature; and thus the way is paved toward advanced lessons on "spirit-affinities," "free love," etc. But after the first deception and shaking of confidence the explanation that there are "both good and bad spirits" is generally satisfactory; and the poor victim follows blindly on, because assured that he communes with some supernatural power.



From amusement of curiosity and answering of questions, sometimes quite truthfully, they proceed to gain the confidence of their victims, and in a plausible manner to break down the will power and make slaves of them. Then they tyrannize in a most diabolical manner, leading into excesses of various kinds. Should conscience rebel or an attempt be made to get free from this slavery, all reserve is cast aside and the victim is taunted with his fall, persuaded that there is no hope for him, and that his only future pleasure must be in diabolism-scriptures being skillfully quoted and cited to apparently prove this.



Here is an illustration of the insidious methods of these demons. Like Satan and the evil spirits of our Lord's day, they will confess Christ and the truth. Similarly, the woman "possessed" followed Paul and Silas several days saying truly ( A& 16: 16-18 ), "These men are the servants of the most high God, which show unto as the way of salvation." But for that matter, abundant evidence could be deduced that they would confirm and approve almost any doctrine or theory held precious by the inquirer in order to gain his confidence, and thus a fuller power over him.



...To our surprise found that several of its leading articles [in a spiritualist magazine) freely conceded that the vast majority of the communicating spirits are evil spirits which seek influence over human beings in order to work their ruin: and if possible to get possession of them to make them crazy. It told of written communications dropped into a room signed "Beelzebub" and "Devil." In one column under the caption "A Critical Study of Obsession," was an account of a poor woman who had been so beset by evil spirits that she was sent to an Insane Asylum and who finally got rid of their torments; and it gives her statement, "I prayed them away." Asked, "To whom did you pray ?" her recorded answer is, "To the Ever-living God. He only can answer prayer." And yet in another column God's name is blasphemed, under the caption, "Peter and Paul," from which we quote these words--"Moses, who tho said to be learned in all the Egyptian skill, was the very meanest of men, and for his God erroneously took Jehovah, a departed spirit of an Egyptian disappointed aspirant to some lucrative or ecclesiastical office.



But while able to tell things past and present, these evil intelligences are quite unable to do more than guess at the future. Yet these guesses are often so skillfully stated as to satisfy the inquirer and yet appear true, if the result should be the opposite of his expectation. Thus the oracle of Delphi having been consulted by Croesus demonstrated to him a super-human knowledge of present things, and when he, having thus gained confidence in it, inquired through its mediums, "whether he should lead an army against the Persians," the answer as recorded by Herodotus the historian was, "By crossing the Halys, Croesus will destroy a mighty power!" Relying upon this, Croesus attacked the Persians and was defeated. His own mighty power was destroyed! History is full of such evidences that the demons know not the future; and God's Word challenges all such, saying,- "Produce your cause, saith the Lord; bring forth your strong reasons, saith the King of Jacob. Let them bring them forth and show us what shall happen. Let them show the former things [things before or to come] what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come. Show the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods."-Isa. 41 : 2 I, 23.



We shall not be at all surprised if some later manifestations of the powers of darkness, transformed to appear as the angels of light and progress, shall be much more specious and delusive than anything yet attempted. We do well to remember the Apostle's Words,-"We wrestle not with flesh and blood, but with princely powers of darkness, with the spiritual things of the evil one."-Eph. 6: 12.

In 1842, six years before "modem Spiritism" began to operate, Edward Bickersteth, a servant of God and student of his Word, wrote,-

"Looking at the signs of the times, and the long . neglect and unnatural denial of all angelic ministration or spiritual influence, and at the express predictions of false Christs, and false prophets, who shall show signs and wonders, insomuch that it were possible they should deceive the very elect, and that when men receive not the love of the truth that they might be saved, for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they shall believe a lie; I cannot but think there is a painful prospect of a SUDDEN RECOIL and religious revulsion from the present unbelief and misbelief, to an unnatural and undistinguished CREDULITY. "




We could make voluminous quotations from Spiritist writings, proving that it totally denies the Bible, and that it is in direct opposition to its teachings; that it has denied the very existence of God, teaching instead merely a good principle, and that every man is a god. It denies the atonement and the Lordship of Christ, while it claims that he was a spirit-medium of low degree; and furthermore, abundant testimony could be quoted from prominent Spiritists proving that the tendencies of Spiritism are extremely demoralizing. We will content ourselves with one. Here is the testimony of J. F. Whitney, editor of the Pathfinder (N. Y.). Having been a warm and evidently an honest defender and advocate of Spiritism for a long time and well acquainted with its devotees, his is a testimony hard to impeach. He says: -

"Now, after a long and constant watchfulness, seeing for months and years its progress and its practical workings upon its devotees, its believers, and its mediums, we are compelled to speak our honest conviction, which is, that the manifestations coming through the acknowledged mediums, who are designated as rapping, tipping, writing and entrance mediums, have a baneful influence upon believers, and create discord and confusion; that the generality of these teachings inculcate false ideas, approve of selfish individual acts, and endorse theories and principles which, when carried out, debase and make man little better than the brute. These are among the fruits of modern Spiritualism. . . .

"Seeing, as we have, the gradual progress it makes with its believers, particularly its mediums, from lives
of morality to those of sensuality and immorality, gradually good principles, we look back with amazement to the
radical change which a few months will bring about in individuals; for its tendency is to approve and endorse
each individual act and character, however good or bad these acts may be."

He concludes by saying- "We desire to send forth our warning voice, and if our humble position, as the head of a public journal, our known [former] advocacy of Spiritualism, our experience, and the conspicuous part we have played among its believers, the honesty and fearlessness with which we have defended the subject, will weigh anything in our favor, we desire that our opinions may be received, and those who are moving passively down the rushing rapids to destruction, should pause, ere it be too late, and save themselves from the blasting influence which those manifestations are causing. "

edit on 25-7-2012 by SubAce because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by Aronolac
 


I apologize for mispronouncing the name that your Familiar has provided to you. Thank you for relaying the correct pronunciation.

And I appreciate your reluctance to refer to me as "stupid".
Although, despite how intelligent or advanced any human being would like to think they are, we are all stupid when in the shadow of the Eternally Divine.
The weight of anyone's input on ATS should not be determined by how "smart" they think they may be, but by the Truth and validity of their words.
God said Himself that He uses the base of intellect to confound those who considered themselves wise of intellect.

Having said that, I fully believe that the entity that you are in contact with is a fraud in every sense of the term for many reasons, of which I will not address in this thread.....

....except for one. In the latest release of the "Seraphic Disclosure Series", Miss Manotia states the following:


President, Barrack Obama. He is of the finest stock America can benefit from while running an impossibly large government executive center.



he is an amazing human being who has learned all he needs to in order to lead the American people to find trust again in government


I must confess that among all the glittery golden nuggets of bright and shiny **
**, of which I discovered in that interesting tome', the ones quoted above were my all-time-fave.

I genuinely have the utmost compassion for you as my brother/sister in humanity. It is my great desire for you discover that Truth does not come with shackles and vapid promises of figurative freedom.
edit on 25-7-2012 by stupid girl because: (no reason given)
edit on 25-7-2012 by stupid girl because: (no reason given)
edit on 25-7-2012 by stupid girl because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by The GUT
 


Greeting “The Gut”

You write:
THE GUT: 1.) Why would a spirit decline to identify itself?

Answer: There are spiritual persons, entities, pre-personalities, super personalities, and other representatives of other-than-personal beings, while spirit, they can not communicate directly with the personal universe. Humans are so discretely human that we are unable to speak to or think about contact that does not involve eye-to-eye contact, or ear-to-ear contact. We humans if we had spiritual vision could see these non-personal beings, and they could see us, but there is no gesture, language, or thought sufficient to overcome the lack of identity of them to us and us to them. This I admit sounds so bizarre as to be on the late, late show of some old science fiction movie, but I assure you the truth is more strange than any fiction either of us could make up.

There is another reason just as important as the one I describe above. The existence of some personal spirits are and represent the secrets of Deity. God does not arbitrarily have secrets, but there are things going on in the universe that are not to be revealed for eons, yet they must be worked on by the Secrets of Supremacy and other orders unknown to us in spite of all bans on them to reveal themselves or reveal their work.

In the case of the NDE event with Aquestion, the angelic realm spokesperson indicates there were no secrets involved with her determination to reinstate her life on earth. However, residing directly behind her as she experienced the transition world her soul was taken to for evaluation, there was an order of Sonship never spoken about to people on our planet. This order is one of the Secrets of Supremacy and they are directly responsible for many earth phenomena science works with as well as clinical physicians. They are true secrets and they are kept out of the lime light.

All of us who are familiar with the proscriptions on restricted information take them seriously and avoid discussions like this, except in this case, I have permission to provide you a truthful answer, and no harm done.


THE GUT 2.) Why do those from this particular spiritual realm often seem to not only contradict each other (I'm talking about the messages received through various "Channels") but also fail to give any "proofs" such as foreknowledge of an event say?


Answer: I guess you are wondering into another area of confusion mostly determined by the lack of trained transmitters. The provision for transmitting data from one side to the other is carefully screened these days to avoid the contamination of verse and chapter of the secrecy codes enforced on transmissions these days. If I may, let me give you a short primer on something I doubt very few even know about how a transmission is originated, how the medium is selected, and how those transmissions are censored or passed depending on the subject.

2) All spiritual transmission with but few exceptions are produced from relay stations placed on the status spheres of administration in the local universe. If earth is point “E” and the mansion world capital “J” wishes to contact “The Gut”, a specialized spiritual technician “E” sets you up by opening your superconsciousness (you are totally unaware of knowing it is there). With your mind identified and prepared, a high energy circuit is beamed into the crown chakra (the tingles are often signs it has been opened). The specialized cells under the crown convert the high frequency circuit to an electro-chemical impulse, and the body distributes the impulse to the neurons in the brain. This can result in “contact” through the physical mechanism whether it is the hands (for writing), into the fingers (for typing), into the auditory nerve (for channel). When the message is delivered, the high frequency energy is withdrawn from the crown chakra, and the person returns to normal. This description is highly simplified, but it is essentially what happens.

If interested, I will take up the reason proof is not possible about spiritual truth. But for now I am out of space.

Thank you



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:20 PM
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reply to post by Aronolac
 


According to the healthful words of truth as found written in the Holy Scriptures we see quite a different picture than the one being painted from those who have supposed experiences with a so-called afterlife.

For example notice what the healthful words of truth reveal about the state of the dead:


(Ecclesiastes 9:5) For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.

(Ecclesiastes 9:10) All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She′ol, the place to which you are going.

When a person dies they cease to exist. The soul dies:

(Ezekiel 18:4) Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.

And there will be a resurrection of those that are now lying asleep in death during the "last day" or Jesus' yet future thousand-year-reign over mankind:

(John 11:24) 24 Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.”

(John 5:28, 29) . . .Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.

Anything contradicting these teachings of truth are revealed to be lies, and anyone that teaches different than what has already been revealed as truth, even if it be an angel from heaven is certainly accursed:

(Galatians 1:8) . . .However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by Aronolac
If earth is point “E” and the mansion world capital “J” wishes to contact “The Gut”, a specialized spiritual technician “E” sets you up by opening your superconsciousness (you are totally unaware of knowing it is there). With your mind identified and prepared, a high energy circuit is beamed into the crown chakra (the tingles are often signs it has been opened). The specialized cells under the crown convert the high frequency circuit to an electro-chemical impulse, and the body distributes the impulse to the neurons in the brain. This can result in “contact” through the physical mechanism whether it is the hands (for writing), into the fingers (for typing), into the auditory nerve (for channel). When the message is delivered, the high frequency energy is withdrawn from the crown chakra, and the person returns to normal. This description is highly simplified, but it is essentially what happens.



absolutely fascinating articulation of this phenomenon


however, doesn't the "contactee" have to open themselves up to contact?

would you agree that there are some individuals of whom it is not possible to contact? Not necessarily because they wouldn't be capable of such, but because it is forbidden?

I am very interested to hear your take on this particular aspect of the psychic channeling/contactee phenomenon.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:50 PM
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reply to post by stupid girl
 


Dear stupid girl,

Perhaps my question is even simpler. Do channelers even make an attempt to verify the validity of what they believe they are experiencing? If not then not, if they do then I am interested in how they differentiate one from another.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:53 PM
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reply to post by maung
 


Dear maung,

Thank you very much for your answer. I do not know which path you are following; but, I assume that the answer may be different depending on which school one is in. I found the part regarding symbols particularly interesting. Peace.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by stupid girl
 


Dear stupid girl,

Perhaps my question is even simpler. Do channelers even make an attempt to verify the validity of what they believe they are experiencing? If not then not, if they do then I am interested in how they differentiate one from another.


My sincere apologies for derailing your thread



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:54 PM
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Yes, of course, there are many other reasons and influences going on all the time, one of which is the poor attunement of the person on "E" (earth). Point to point contact is simplified as explained and I did not wish to over do a description that whole books can be written on as telling people in what way these things are accomplished is difficult for the lack of really good language alone.

I am useful as a transmitter/receiver just because I have been wired up since 1988 when a direct hit found me that broke all resistance to the channel concept. In those days I was able to see into the ultraviolet light levels - a gift of God that had to be taken back and I knew it was on loan. But the flowers and the trees and the fish in the lake I saw were absolutely gorgeous with this extended vision. Every living thing has the most glorious violet tinge glowing around it, and the colors of the rainbow in the petals and the tails of the fish, even the ordinary ones we see otherwise. I lost it within the year, but the memory lingers.

Since then I have been allowed to develop a class A contact after honing all that was given into some idea of a retractable antenna at the back of my head. All they need do is flip it on and up it goes and I hear as clearly as a good radio receiver can broadcast the news. All of this is in preparation, I am told, for the appearance of visual representatives of the spiritual kingdom to appear. That will set the world on its ear, but we need something to stop this race to jump over the cliff of despair so many people are feeling today.

Aronolac
edit on 25-7-2012 by Aronolac because: edit typo



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 

I tell them "no" all the time. They don't care. They do what they want.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by stupid girl
 


Dear stupid girl,

You did not derail it and I think the thread may have gone better if my OP had been clearer. I wanted to leave as much room for discussion as possible. Before I even considered posting in this forum, I read the rules and that is why I didn't want to get into a religious discussion or show any disrespect for peoples beliefs. If we go into the home of another, we should always respect their rules or leave. This forum is not my home; but, I was interested in what people who study these things had to say. Peace.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 08:08 PM
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reply to post by The GUT
 

The answers to your questions ~

1. Unknown.

2. Good and evil coexist but you cannot tell them apart in your head. Good tests you by pretending to be evil and vice versa.

Foreknowledge only comes seconds before the event.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 08:15 PM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 

The "choices and decisions" are made for us. We are merely puppets.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by Aronolac
 


Dear Aronolac,



Your Near Death Experience (NDE) is nothing to shy away from. You had the good fortune to believe enough in the redemptive powers of the Creator Son, known as Jesus to our world, to withstand the nearly inexhaustible energy stream that flowed to you in that event. I will provide you a glimpse of your experience as seen from the spiritual personalities who attended you that moment:


I wish to assure you that I was not and am no way scared of my experience. Having spoken with others who had such things, I haven't found anyone that was really bothered by theirs. Most just didn't want to come back, I chose to. I do not shy away from it; but, I do not consider it proof for anyone other than myself and I don't rely on it for proof of my spiritual beliefs for me. I came to my beliefs based on research and study, my NDE happened much later.

You mentioned my stomach. It had not ruptured, I was actually beginning to have a heart attack because of extremely high blood pressure (clocking in at over 200). My doctors had predicted it for years and there was not one bit of fear in me. As it began, there was only acceptance and that is when all fear, anger and resentment were released by me.

The experience (just a word as I don't really know what else to call it) did not change me, it merely verified that I intended the choices that I make and made. At the same time, it made me consider that other people's experiences might be as real to them as mine was for me. As I began researching different types of experiences (starting with Kundalini), I began wondering how anyone could feel a degree of confidence in the reality of their experience. I came to believe that there are two types of experiences, the ones we seek and the ones that find us. When I began learning about '___', I questioned how there experiences often seem more unpleasant. It led me to ask the question of whether or not we can independently judge or understand the experience. I have been told that I should be dead more than a dozen times and have only had any experience twice. The first time I was accidentally poisoned as a kid and had a very short OBE. Because I was so young, I dismissed it as whatever. My NDE was different, I was more awake and more aware and more focused than ever before in my life.

After my experience, I did what I would have told anyone else to do, discuss it with someone removed from it and objective, go through all the possibilities and follow your morality, do what you believe is right or as I like to say, "Do the right thing for the right reason". I wasn't asked to do anything; but, my decisions that defined me had to be consistent with my beliefs. This then led me to ask myself could I be deceived? As I became aware of other types of experiences I began to wonder how they could judge their experience, how they could know it was real or know what they were dealing with. After watching a video with Jim Carey discussing his '___' experience I really began doubting that anyone could be sure of what they experienced. Not that they had it but whether or not it was of good or evil. He was so overwhelmed with the thought that he was God and all that was was within him that he just accepted it. In South America where certain plants are used regularly to have the '___' experience, one is surrounded by people who have been there before and there is a support system for afterwards. The group of elders then discusses the experience with you. In the end I question our ability (mine included) to logically analyze the experience; but, I don't believe that means we have to accept that it is true or reject it totally. I think I believe we should continue learning in this life based on what we observe and learn here; but, I was interested in what others thought. Peace.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 08:53 PM
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Incidentally, we are all inhabited. The difference between people is their level of awareness of it.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 



I'm walking along the street and an alien entity suddenly appears at my side. What is my first and only thought? There's something wrong in my brain. Why would I think anything else when we live in a world of information? Like you mentioned, people hearing voices and are later declared mentally damaged in some way.

We have movies of people that suffer from mental illnesses where they see and interact with imaginary people (watch 'A Beautiful Mind").

There are people that are perfectly healthy, but when they use drugs they see angels and demons and aliens. How is it that these people can't put 2 and 2 together and conclude that the drugs are doing something to their minds?

We have alcoholics suffering from DT's and see weird things.

All of this points to the mind and nowhere else.
edit on 7/25/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)
edit on 7/25/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)






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