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19-year-old shot 5 times for suspected underage drinking

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posted on Jul, 24 2012 @ 10:45 PM
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Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
Man, you just keep moving that goalpost. RealSpoke illustrates that 30 witnesses backed Aaron Rosas,

Actually no it was not illustrated. What the post does is make a claim that is not supported by anything other than a statement which says -

30 witnesses who were present back Aaron Rosas’ version of the events


Where are their statements? Where is the supporting documentation that supports the claim? Again you, as well as the other poster, are just tkaing copblocks word for it, even though you claim you do not.



Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
and suddenly you start talking about biased media and press releases aren't always accurate

Just as a person made the argument that eye witness accounts arent always correct and can be fuzzy. So if their version of events supports Rosa, their memories are picture perfect but iof they support the officers their recolection is fuzzy at best and should not be trusted.


Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
and "Where are all the witness statements that say this kid was shot because he was underage and drinking?"

Well where are all the witness statements backing up the cops claim? Because it seems that 30 back the victim.

The article itself on copblock makes the claim the reason the kid was shot was because he is underage and was drinking. The article states the cops are making it all up yet offers nothing to support the claim.

I have not moved any goal posts.. What I have done is used the exact same rationale / mindset others are using in this thread, incouding yourself, when it comes to what witnesses saw and how their memory can be fuzzy. 30 people are claimed to support Rosas version of events yet not one person is quoted nor is any of their offical statements a part of the post. While the article claims the police are making up excuses they offer absolutely no evidence to support the accusations.

Once again, you are taking the word of copblock at face value, even after you claimed you dont.

Ironically enough the part that supposedly came from the family lawyer is telling.. Instead of going after the officers criminally for crminial violations along with civil rights violations, the immediately discuss only a civil suit. the kid is 19 years old, making him an adult which means mom is an irrelevant factor in all of this.

Please tell me who George Sand is?
edit on 24-7-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 24 2012 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra

Actually no it was not illustrated. What the post does is make a claim that is not supported by anything other than a statement which says -

30 witnesses who were present back Aaron Rosas’ version of the events


Where are their statements? Where is the supporting documentation that supports the claim? Again you, as well as the other poster, are just tkaing copblocks word for it, even though you claim you do not.


Maybe, but you have also yet to provide any evidence backing your claim. So it seems that we are deadlocked in a Chinese standoff.

You have not produced any evidence to back your claims or refute the OP.



posted on Jul, 24 2012 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
Maybe, but you have also yet to provide any evidence backing your claim. So it seems that we are deadlocked in a Chinese standoff.


Actually we aren't deadlocked... As I stated in my post you failed to provide anything but copblocks post. There is nothing in that post that can be taken factually since the person who wrote the article is George Sand. I asked you to tell me who the person is and you ignored it.

The information I provided comes directly from the El Paso County Sheriff's office and since their deputies were present, and George Sand was not, the ball so far is in the sheriff's office court. Does it mean its right / factual? Nope it sure doesn't however, again, since their deputies were present and George Sand as well as Mr. Rosas' mother was not..... advantage El paso S.O.


Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
You have not produced any evidence to back your claims or refute the OP.

Thats the point I have been trying to make to you.. The article you posted, from a website you claim you dont take at face value and that you do your own research, contains nothing of substance or fact. Even the title of the article is not supported by anything the author wrote in the article. If you took the time to research the author you will find some interesting articles that pertain to their opinion of law enforcement, which is anything but non-biased.

So if you did your own research and you dont take copblock at face value, then why have you overlooked the facts I have pointed out, the very ones you continue to ignore?

You have in fact taken copblock at face value...
You have failed to do any research into this case....
You have failed to take the time to look for the other side of the story before posting your info...
You have made it clear in your posts you are not a fan of law enforcement....
You have come at me for providing information that challenges your post and the claims within...
You then judged me because another poster said I was in law enforcement....

The only biased party I see here is yourself and a few others who seem to hate law enforcement. I refer you to your posts suggesting law enforcement lied about what occured to "cover their asses", that you "know the law", that cops ""abuse their authority", that you are "suspicious of me", that you feel inspired by these groups to "learn the law" yet ignore people who know the law simply because they are law enforcement, stating that the 30 witnesses "falsely think all cops are the good guys", they "dont want to be targeted".....

You are the one who suggested "Or they are wrong about what they remembered. Eyewitness testimony isn't always the strongest "evidence."
"
...

So I ask you, do you think all cops are as you claim / perceive / think and if so is that the reason you are taking copblock and the article, who was written by a person who is not involved in the case at all, at face value?

Is it so disconcerting to you that it might be possible the cops in this instance may have acted correctly and within the law?

Like I said I have no issues with people who have issues with law enforcement and who want to hold them accountible. The problem I see is the manner in which people, including yourself, go about doing that. You have dismissed any and all info that suggests law enforcement acted correctly and you have done so relying solely on the article and the claims it contains that was written by an individual who was not present.

What you and others ignore is in this case -
* - not only does the state have to prove Mr. Rosas' is guilty of the charges.
* - the state must prove the actions of law enforcement were lawful.

That means reports, dashcam footage and eye witness testimony...

From the start your position towards law enforcement is that they are guilty and lie and no amount of information is going to convice you otherwise. My position is there are 2 sides to this story and both sides need to be looked at and considered.

Respectfully - I find it both ignorant as well as arrogant for you to try and claim the moral highground while using the very same methods you despise and attribute to all law enforcement. I have stated not all cops are good and have taken them to task when they act in violation of the law. A position I dont see coming from you on the other side of the fence - which is the ability to consider a different possibility that may run contrary to what you want / believe.

The goal of any invesitgation is to find the truth, regradless of whether we like where that truth leads us.


edit on 24-7-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 





The only biased party I see here is yourself and a few others who seem to hate law enforcement. I refer you to your posts suggesting law enforcement lied about what occurred to "cover their asses",


You know the past 48 hours have given me an entirely new view on cops.

You can go look at the previous threads about Anaheim violence, I was defending the Cops there...

A day later A friends brother with whom I know is shot and killed.

He was apprehended and shot while cuffed, the cops beat him and broke his arm, while cuffed, and than let him bleed out until he died.

With witnesses.

Than I get to watch on the news as the story is spun from he was fleeing and than the gun went from the car to beside him.

Now I don't know how it is elsewhere, But I know how it is in Anaheim.

These are people I know telling me what happened.

Don't get me wrong, my friends brother was committing a crime, but the level of force and behavior is not justified.

Oh and to top it off, the cops that where there that night, the ones that wouldn't let the boys mother get to her son as he bleed out...

They show up at her house afterwards demanding to know what she is going to do... Harassing a women that just lost her son... (just found out about this)

Well, shes going to be Suing the pants off Anaheim, mean while the city is on the verge of all out riots...

Like I said, whole new perspective on the Police.


Part of the reasons people are "anti-cop" Is that buddy system they have going, where no matter what another cop will defend another even if it involves lying.

My father grew up in the Rampart Division of L.A. He always told me never trust a cop, respect them, but don't trust him.

I would laugh that he was crazy, having grown up in a nice suburb, I wont be laughing any more.


edit on 25-7-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-7-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 01:47 AM
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now people will all begin to have the same stories about police abuse. When we all have one, the streets will fill with blood. This is what they are making possible. People can only take so much.

I don't understand how they can't see that. You know how easy it is to get a cops home address, they are putting their safety and that of their families at risk.

They are not the untouchables of government. They will live like dogs when this whole thing erupts. The more they push, the more enemies they will find in the public until they are surrounded and running. When they can't do their job due to the sheer size and unpredictability of the force against them, the army will be called in to do their job for them.

Then when they are side by side with the rest of us, they will go through everything we do. Then they might remember how they could have made a difference but didn't.

There is a real problem. Anyone denying that the authorities are losing control of the situation and works for them is dishonest. Stand up and tell your superiors what they don't want to see and take one for the team. Or

Let your country slip into mass revolt. The greatest threat for a civil war right now is law enforcement and their unwillingness to modify their use of force. People still have guns and they will start to use them.

You are literally killing us now for nothing and we are starting to realize we would rather kill before be killed. STOP.

I don't want to see my country up in arms. You are the greatest agents of destruction right now for the US. Beyond the CIA in the world, FBI undercover, and politics in DC. You are on the street and are making us hate you. You don't want that no matter how tough you think you are. People out number you many thousands to one


edit on 25-7-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 02:10 AM
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reply to post by RealSpoke
 


I had no idea though I can't say I hadn't thought it. I always skimmed through his posts but now I know to just skip them altogether. Thanks for the heads up.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 02:24 AM
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reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786[/

Another case of anti police hostility, when none / only part of the facts surrounding the case are known.
No surprise there then.
Clearly, they didn't just shoot this young man for underage drinking !

Sensationalist, emotional tripe, to suit someone's anti police agenda....



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 02:28 AM
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reply to post by MrJohnSmith
 


yes that is the problem. Not that police have a flawed and detrimental policy when it comes to the escalation of force. No. It is the countless articles and stories we all have heard that are the problem. Really they are all made up. Thousands of people for years now have been in on a conspiracy to piss of cops with false accusations....

What world do you live in? Fine, let it catch you by surprise. When nothing you do solves the growing problem you will face ever greater numbers of these "liars" as you imply. Then all the BS spin won't save any of us.



edit on 25-7-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 02:32 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Copblock is a group that intentionally go out of their way to cause problems for the police.
They are simply a police hate site. I wouldn't trust anything that came from them, anymore then I trust stuff that comes from WND, WBC, or Sorcha Faal.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 02:49 AM
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reply to post by BIHOTZ
 


The police certainly aren't beyond reproach, they're only human doing a difficult job......is there a better idea? No police and everyone do as they please ?

Local vigilante groups enforcing their version of " Law and order " ?

They've a rotten job to do, under difficult circumstances, policing a feckless public who increasingly know all their rights, but shirk responsibilities when it comes to being decent citizens.

Whatever they're paid, it's not enough....where would you be without them ? If you're in trouble, who you gonna call ?



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 03:35 AM
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reply to post by MrJohnSmith
 


I have many friends who work in law enforcement. My closest friend is a cop. I think of them. We are not a terrible people like cops like to say. Work in general is difficult and a burden. That is no excuse.

I don't call the cops. I think they make things complicated at least, and dangerous for oneself at most.

I would really need help for me to call a cop. I tend to solve things myself and encourage people to solve things as a community like we did before.

Cops are not bad people, though bad people can become cops. They are not all or mostly innocent. You can't tell that on the outside. That is why we have rules but they keep changing them to meet a more violent response. They are not scaring the general population, they are pissing them off making their own jobs increasingly difficult.

I am just trying to tell people to cut the crap or this will blow up in their face more than it has yet. You can't think and act like that and not suffer the consequences. You can't just stick your head in the sand and say "it´s their fault" and "we do hard work"....

Eventually people don't care when they all know someone crippled, killed, or mistreated by a cop. It doesn't help your situation.

I could tell you many stories. My closest friend is a cop as I have said and he works in a city currently under investigation by the FBI for all sorts of crimes. They are being treated like organized crime by the FBI for the way they make things disappear(people, evidence, will to testify). They are not the only city in my state being investigated let alone the country.

People are catching wind and seeing the evidence for themselves. I wish my friend didn't make me swear to not talk about what he tells me, but it's bad.


edit on 25-7-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 04:58 AM
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oh boy
I prefer to drink alcohol in public in Islamic Republic. in the case that I am over 18 at most they fine me or whip me not killing me!
the problem of USA is massive gun usage and production. so the police needs to use more force or simply shoot. because even a baby may have a gun !



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 05:23 AM
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Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786
 


He's a cop so all he does on this forum is try to make the police have a higher moral ground in every situation.

Like in this thread, it was quite sad ...even though the cops actions were unconstitutional he still defended them www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 24-7-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)


For One...
F**K The Police!!!
Most of them were a bunch of antisocial nerdy crybabies in high school that let the "badge" get the best of them. Almost all of them, you can tell, were a bunch of wacko nerdy folks... And when they got the badge... Oh yeah, they drank that KoolAid.

-I got busted for underage consuption twice in one week. First time I didn't put up a fight, didn't run. I was calm and collective. Apologized for drinkin on the block corner.
Second time an officer (who never proclaimed he was one) out of nowhere in the darkness ran up on me and asked "what the f**k you doing b***h?" I laughed and zipped my pants back up and started walking away when he said "don't run mother f****r" So what I do, ran.
he shot at me with his tazer but only one prong latched into my skin and it was on my right wrist. I ran the whole block with him tazering my hand. Got up to the woodline and sprinted through the woods. (its near midnight so I was falling all over not being able to see)
Lost him, but as I came up to the road, a gang of cop cars surrounded me quick. I tried to run again but heard the K9 unit. So I laid down. Well, bad mistake. First cop kicked me in the face while I was down. They handcuffed me and picked me up. Then started shoving me into trees, picking me up and repeating. Got my head slammed in the door. ya, I was pretty bloodied up.
Got 2 years probation for that. $1,000 fine and alcohol and drug classes. 10 classes at $40 a class. I was 19 years old.

F**K The Police.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 05:24 AM
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You guys are a strange bunch in the US,

You let the youth drive from 16 (15 in some states isn't it?), yet you ban drinking until 21?

Crazy!!!



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 05:25 AM
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reply to post by maes9
 


that is a common misconception from abroad. Actually we are more responsible with guns. Considering the amount of them and the fact that we still use our fists and other weapons when passion is inconsolable says allot.

The police are facing escalating situations because they raise the bar every time on the accepted amount of force that can be used.

People when getting arrested now can't even explain themselves or who might be the real threat since they first fear a tazer or a broken wrist or arm. When everyone is nice and hog tied they feel safe being perceived less of a threat.

A black man in the middle of the night being stopped by two lone officers might piss his pants being as nervous as that situation can make you. That says allot too.

No, we can't use every single example of life to show what is on the agenda today. Now it's gun control, then its mandatory searches without warrant, later is mass detention because of flees.

LOL.

You have to be honest. When did people begin acting more apprehensive towards cops in general? Well, ever since they began using more and more force. It is a well balanced scale. The more people IN prison, the more who are sympathetic to them on the outside.

Then you have things we all see. They speak volumes to us.


edit on 25-7-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 05:26 AM
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Originally posted by BIHOTZ
reply to post by MrJohnSmith
 


I have many friends who work in law enforcement. My closest friend is a cop. I think of them. We are not a terrible people like cops like to say. Work in general is difficult and a burden. That is no excuse.

I don't call the cops. I think they make things complicated at least, and dangerous for oneself at most.

I would really need help for me to call a cop. I tend to solve things myself and encourage people to solve things as a community like we did before.

Cops are not bad people, though bad people can become cops. They are not all or mostly innocent. You can't tell that on the outside. That is why we have rules but they keep changing them to meet a more violent response. They are not scaring the general population, they are pissing them off making their own jobs increasingly difficult.

I am just trying to tell people to cut the crap or this will blow up in their face more than it has yet. You can't think and act like that and not suffer the consequences. You can't just stick your head in the sand and say "it´s their fault" and "we do hard work"....

Eventually people don't care when they all know someone crippled, killed, or mistreated by a cop. It doesn't help your situation.

I could tell you many stories. My closest friend is a cop as I have said and he works in a city currently under investigation by the FBI for all sorts of crimes. They are being treated like organized crime by the FBI for the way they make things disappear(people, evidence, will to testify). They are not the only city in my state being investigated let alone the country.

People are catching wind and seeing the evidence for themselves. I wish my friend didn't make me swear to not talk about what he tells me, but it's bad.


edit on 25-7-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)


maybe the cops where your at are cooler. but round these parts... bunch of lil Bit****
Cop over here killed a 17 year old boy for pulling out his wallet to show ID after the cop told him too.
The police officer was made out to be a hero almost by the newspaper..



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 05:28 AM
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Originally posted by Just Chris
You guys are a strange bunch in the US,

You let the youth drive from 16 (15 in some states isn't it?), yet you ban drinking until 21?

Crazy!!!


your absolutely correct.
oh and ya... don't forget that we can join the military and die for our country at age 17 but can't drink until age 21. (but most units let you drink once your in)



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 05:36 AM
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sad on many levels - in other countries at 19 he could legally drink ... not to mention in amerika they can go in the military at 17 and learn how to kill - but cant drink or vote ... excessive / unnecessary use of force by police to shoot someone for drinking ... whatever happened to just giving a warning and confiscating the alcohol ?
hope that he recovers ...



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 05:43 AM
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Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786

The list goes on and on – you’d think the United States would be hiding its face in shame, rather than claiming to be a beacon of freedom while pointing the “human rights” finger at every other country but itself. While police apologists repeatedly drone the tire bit about it being “a few bad apples” or “isolated incidents” (never mind the fact that the law actually encourages and permits this type of behavior by police), the truth is, it would take more than a whole team of writers to detail and cover the daily atrocities committed by police.

Aaron Rosas’ story is one such atrocity.

Not so long ago, a few days before April 13, 2012, Aaron Rosas called his mother Alice to ask where she’d stored his camping equipment, as he wanted to camp out with his friends for a night.

On April 13, 2012, Ms. Rosas received a call from Sierra Medical, a hospital on the east side of El Paso Texas around midnight. She was told she needed to go to the Del Sol Hospital to meet up with her son, because they were transporting him to Del Sol, a trauma center. Her son had been shot 5 times, because in this country, some police believe the punishment for underage drinking is death.


Source article

Perhaps they were trying to get the alcohol out of his system via bullet holes?

In all seriousness this is absolutely appalling. When are we going to realize that these are not "isolated incidents"? When are we going to see that there is a bigger problem here? I know a lot of people understand this, but America as a whole has a problem grasping the concept that not all cops are really here "to protect and serve."



It is very unfortunate that this youngster was shot by the police, but at least state sanctioned murder for drinking alcohol has not yet managed to make the statute books in america.
The actions of one police officer exercising poor "Personal Judgement" implies a lack of control and responsibility to do a job with due care and attention.
The police have exhibited many times that they have control issues, and appear to be very unprofessional, in the eyes of civilians, but, do they care?.
I think not.

And as an aside, does someone in america being killed by the police bother you as much as someone in a sharia state being murdered by the state, for the same offence?.
It happens far far more often in saudia arabia and iran, than it does in america.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 06:23 AM
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Originally posted by benrl
This, the thread about Dallas, the two from Anahiem.

Americans need to stand united against this forming police state.

No black, no white, no Asians, No Hispanics.

No Jews, No Muslims, No Buddhist, No Christians, No Atheist.

Just Americans standing united against such Tyranny.
edit on 24-7-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)


Please do, the rest of the world needs a laugh.




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