Breaking: Angry crowd forms after Dallas police shooting

reply to post by DAVID64


Just like they tried after the bridge incident in NOLA? Wouldn't be surprised. Society is decaying quick, no one should expect the cops to be any better than the rest of it.

I'm in the boonies of east Texas, but when you have to have satellite to watch television, ya get what ya get and what I get for "local" channels is Dallas.

Police Chief Brown has been giving an in-depth, no holds barred press conference. He was thorough in answering all questions and urged the press to not blow this out of proportion but to listen to what he was saying and report it accurately for the well-being of the people in the neighborhood.

I just took in a lot of information but am trying to relay it as accurately as I can remember.

Chief Brown said they now believe the initial 911 call was "bogus" (his words); the number it came from does not trace to a local number and the person answering it does not speak English. He said their current belief is that the "bogus" 911 call came due to two rival drug families. The residence reported as having the problem by the 911 caller was said to have a black male with his hands behind his back being dragged and sounded as though a possible kidnapping was in progress. He said when officers arrived there was no one with their hands tied behind their back; however, there were 4 males in the house, that it is a known "drug house" and there was a gun on the table. One of the suspects grabbed the gun but the officers did not know who.

Chief Brown read the arrest titles for all the times the suspect had been arrested and it took him quite a while to do so. Multiple arrests for drug possession, drug manufacturing, evading arrest, auto theft, etc. He said that there was crack coc aine in the house, in the front yard and on the side of the yard and that the suspect had "a wad of cash in his front pants pocket."

He said the fighting that broke out was between the two rival families in that neighborhood.

The man who was shot was pursued by an officer who, according to Chief Brown, was wearing a bullet proof vest. Chief Brown made certain everyone understood that in 100 degree temperatures, it feels like 150 degrees in those vests. The officer pursued the suspect over three (3) fences, catching up to the suspect each time. He explained that a police officer MUST keep one arm on his weapon at all times. He said there is a witness who came forward and told the police that at each fence the suspect was beating the officer with both hands while the officer tried to fend him off with one hand. Apparently the beating of the officer by the suspect at the 3rd fence was pretty bad.

Chief Brown said that the officer has been injured; sustained a severe kick to the chest and other injuries but he did not know the extent of those injuries. The officer is being treated AND interrogated at this time.

Chief Brown was cautious and careful to say that entry wounds and exit wounds too often look the same and no determination can be made of whether he was shot from the front or from behind pending the full coroner's investigation.

He also said that no gun was found near the suspect; however, that did not necessarily mean there was no reason for use of deadly force - an officer can only fight with one arm for so long. He again reiterated to the reporters that he was relying upon them to report ONLY what is known and to NOT speculate and to remember that grieving family and friends often think they saw something that perhaps they did not see.

I truly hope that I've relayed all of that accurately.

All that said, I can tell you that I lived in Pleasant Grove in 1989-1990 and it was ROUGH then. The street I lived on backed up to a wooded area. I was in my backyard one evening with my dog when someone shot my house. My across-the-street neighbor was shot at the gas station down the street one morning while getting gas - a man walked up to him and asked for a quarter to make a call, my neighbor was reaching into his pocket to give him the quarter when the man shot him, then took his wallet as he lay there bleeding and then shot him again. Miraculously, he survived but he was a long time healing. My dog and every other dog on the street was poisoned one day and then the criminals came back and broke into the houses where the dogs had died. My dog survived, barely. There was a drive-by shooting one night that lasted so long that calling 911 resulted in only a busy signal for NINE MINUTES. The shooters just kept circling the block and firing at houses. I left and I never went back and to this day you cannot make me drive anywhere in Dallas.

Pleasant Grove, as others have said, is one of THE most notorious and dangerous areas of Dallas. For the most part, the police are not welcome there. It's a living hell for decent people. If someone knows YOU called the police, you WILL be targeted - and that was 22, 23 years ago. I cannot imagine how much more it has degraded to by now.

I would say that we here at ATS need to heed Chief Brown's advice and NOT speculate. He's a good man and a fine Chief of Police. He does not protect the guilty, no matter which side it is.

reply to post by SeesFar

I would say that we here at ATS need to heed Chief Brown's advice and NOT speculate.

Wise words, and why ATS (and it's contributing members) continues as one of my information staples.

Thank you for the great information you and other members have provided thus far and the valuable time involved in doing so.

reply to post by SeesFar

I truly hope that I've relayed all of that accurately.

Either way, Your obvious efforts to do so I for one appreciate and do applaud.

I guess their rapping the situation up.

reply to post by SeesFar


I lived in Oak Cliff in 88 and had to leave before I was forced to kill someone.... I relocated to the Piney Woods also.. My wife lived off of Loop 12 a block off of Hawn Freeway and had a hell of a time with people trying to steal her pickup, breaking into her house and taking everything she owned that was worth anything like happened to me..... It is hard to find a place to live in the Dallas area that isn't inhabited by criminals... For some reason I think that Chief Brown is a stand up guy that will do a thorough investigation.... I doubt that this thing is going to become the cause of much more unrest than we have already seen.

reply to post by SeesFar


Thank you so much for your detailed write-up of everything so far.

Dallas as a whole isn't what I'd call terrible, but Lord help your soul if you even look at Pleasant Grove. It saddens me that someone was killed, but I urge everyone to use caution when automatically blaming one side or another.

I live in Ft Worth, but from what I've seen Chief Brown is trying really hard to improve DPD and their relationship with the public. Bad slip ups have happened, but its not like the city is a rosy beacon of kindness, either. There is more than its far share of bad/dangerous parts that have been allowed to thrive for too long. On top of that the city council is laughable and beyond corrupt. I don't even know how several members still hold their seats.

reply to post by UberL33t


As per usual, the none - too - bright citizens reacting to a situation emotionally without all the facts...again.

Reacting badly to rumour and half truths, with an anti police agenda from the start..

reply to post by SeesFar

Pleasant Grove, as others have said, is one of THE most notorious and dangerous areas of Dallas. For the most part, the police are not welcome there. It's a living hell for decent people. If someone knows YOU called the police, you WILL be targeted - and that was 22, 23 years ago. I cannot imagine how much more it has degraded to by now.

I spent some time there a couple years ago, and I can tell you....it is still pretty horrible. Pleasant Grove and Oak Cliff are places in Dallas I will never willfully go to again. I spent about 60 days in Pleasant Grove back in 2009, and every other night there were police helicopters flying around the area, gunshots every other night, ect....

As for the shooting....if I was an officer in Pleasant Grove and was chasing a suspect who was wearing body armor and has already jumped a few fences, then starts attacking me, I would of thought the worst was about to happen and went from there

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by detachedindividual

 

These crowds forming are going to become more and more common, and at some point the police will not be able to stop it any longer.

Of course, they always have the option of going back to their duty as "peace officers," but I don't see that happening.

It's called Military state. We are doing it to ourselves so we will have no one to blame once we go into this state. The problem we've run into is the Cops can't trust the people and vice versa. It's a result of their 0 tolerance to protect themselves. Sometimes inappropriate action is taken. But again...in probably 99% of these cases it's a result of someone doing something to intentionally draw the attention of the police.

reply to post by My.mind.is.mine


A 16 year old from what i've heard and he was armed.

From what i've read on this one... deserved what was coming I say....

The place sounds like #hole.... drugs, gangs, guns.... what are you to do?

This isnt the movies... this is real life... people get hurt!!

Its kill or be killed in the drug game.

whats the situation now?

I used to work as a paramedic in that area for between 2004-2006. There were certain times we would not respond unless we had a police escort, it was that rough. You would come out from the house that had called you to help, and your ambulance would be stripped. I can recall more than once 911 being called and the medics greeted at the scene by someone with a gun who wanted to steal the narcotics kept on the ambulance.

I have also responded to shootings before, none officer involved though. Let me tell you, when you are on the scene of a shooting, and a crowd begins to form, it is about the scariest situation you can be in. You become surrounded, you can not move your vehicle, and you can not get out even if you try. The worst part is, not only can you not get out, but your back up can not get in.

When an officer is chasing a suspect who is fleeing from a house that had drugs, cash, and guns, and the suspect begins to assault the officer, it is the worst of the worst. It was about 102 degrees the day this happened (I know, I was working.) After chasing someone down, and then getting physically assaulted, and facing the possibility that they either have a weapon, or you may be so physically exhausted that you can no longer guard your own weapon so that it can not be used against you, it is a life and death situation.

If the person was assaulting the officer and the officer was to physically exhausted to protect himself or his weapon, then I do believe deadly force was justified. The suspect likely would have done the same to the officer if he had gotten the chance first.

Brown is one of the better chiefs DPD has had in a while. He has fired more than one bad cop, and demoted quite a few officers who were exposed to have gotten their promotions based on favoritism or had breached the code of ethics. He did this despite it making him unpopular with a lot of officers. I think the guy is pretty stand up, and his press conference was very professional. He did not blatantly protect the officer without knowing what happened, and he did not place blame on the victim, who was engaging in illegal activity and was reported to have assaulted the police officer...

We will just have to wait and see how this plays out. Either way, justified or not, it is always sad when someone loses their life...that is the tragedy here.

First Anaheim, California

Now Dallas, Texas?

Wow the police are really on a roll this week.

"No reason for him to be shot like a dog. If he's running away from them, ain't no reason," James White said.

Police have every reason to shoot somebody that is threatening them. Coming towards them. Brandashing a weapon, etc.

But this is exactly why people are upset these days and come out to protest. They shot him in the back as he was trying to get away. What is with cops these days? In a quest for compliance they issue policies that turn the community (and the nation) against them. They seem to have this blanket policy nowadays in regards to their sidearms. Instead of using restraint and maybe catching the "suspect" another day, they just open up.

And so sure they are triggering on the right guy? Who shoots at cops and then runs? Most people either shoot or run. And everyone runs when shots ring out, right?

They see someone running and thats gotta be him.... Kapow, Kapow.

FBI Statistics - Gangs (ex-text won't work for me, so quoted ex text is bolded) 2011 Statistics:

"There are approximately 1.4 million active street, prison, and OMG gang members comprising more than 33,000 gangs in the United States."

"Gang members are acquiring high-powered, military-style weapons and equipment which poses a significant threat because of the potential to engage in lethal encounters with law enforcement officers and civilians. ... Gang members also target military and law enforcement officials, facilities, and vehicles to obtain weapons, ammunition, body armor, police gear, badges, uniforms, and official identification."

In 2011, the DEA made 32,176 arrests. That's ONLY the crimes/arrests the DEA was involved in. Multiply that across all of the U.S. at local/state law enforcement level.

Calculate every other kind of crime/accident you can think of and add those numbers to the mix.

In 2008, local police departments had about 593,000 full-time employees, including 461,000 sworn officers.

461,000 officers vs 1.4 MILLION gang members PLUS countless criminals.

6,613 - Number of sworn LEOs involved in alleged misconduct - that's 1.43% of sworn LEOs.

The number of LEOs who have died in the line of duty increased 14% nationwide from 2010 to 2011

Unethical LEOs out there? Sadly, yes, but the vast majority of our LEOs are upright men and women who walk out of their homes every day not knowing whether or not they will walk back in and they do it to protect the citizens of their towns, cities, counties and states. They protect YOU.

NOTICE the arsenal and related items being collected by gang members. They're infiltrating the police departments AND the military. The media does not tell us just how serious and widespread these issues are, but I assure you our law enforcement agencies and officers know.

My husband was a LEO for 10 years; my bro-in-law is a LEO going on 20 years. I promise you that our LEOs don't leave their jobs like the rest of us do. Their workdays live in their heads forever. The mental images of their jobs are always there; dismembered victims found "a piece here, a piece there," slaughtered families, traumatized/nearly beaten to death/raped women and children, people so mangled in vehicles that they have difficulty removing the people parts from the auto parts, literally scraping remains of people (often fellow LEOs) off the pavement, the heartbreak of telling someone their spouse/child/parent is dead or standing beside them as a family members tries to ID rotted remains. A routine traffic stop is no longer "routine" - they don't know who or what is in that vehicle. It never ends.

Hundreds of thousands of crimes, murders, shootings, stabbings, accidents, rapes, kidnapping, assault, per year and we have what? 461,000 sworn officers to handle it, of which 1.43% are accused of misconduct.

As Chief Brown stated, one hand MUST remain on their weapon. They protect themselves AND you with one hand all but literally tied behind their back. How many times will you let someone hit you before you react?

In an incident a few years ago a woman called 911, screaming that her son (16 y/o) was threatening the whole family with a butcher knife. LEOs arrive; kid is off his rocker; mother and siblings terrified and screaming. LEOs can't calm the kid down and he finally goes at one of them with the knife. How do you fend off a crazed person with a knife when you can use only one hand? LEO shot him. Mother sued P.D. Many 16 y/o males are the size of grown men; certain drugs give them the strength of 10 grown men. What do you want the LEO to do? Volunteer as a human sacrifice?

EVERY lawsuit such as that removes LEOs options of how to do their job. Budgets are down and less LEOs are doing double duty with reduced abilities against multiplying criminals.

It's proven that if you show 20 people a film of an acted crime event and then ask all 20 to tell what they saw, you will get 20 DIFFERENT versions. Add the trauma of an actual event and the details will be skewed even more. Family/friends don't want to believe their family/friend COULD do something horrible so, if they see it, their minds will often change "facts" to make it more palatable.

No one knows yet exactly what went on in either Anaheim or Dallas. Those who speculate and accuse the LEOs without evidence aren't denying ignorance; they're FOMENTING it.

Don't trust cops? That's your right. But if you don't trust 'em, don't call 'em.

Originally posted by intrptr

"No reason for him to be shot like a dog. If he's running away from them, ain't no reason," James White said.

Police have every reason to shoot somebody that is threatening them. Coming towards them. Brandashing a weapon, etc.

But this is exactly why people are upset these days and come out to protest. They shot him in the back as he was trying to get away. What is with cops these days? In a quest for compliance they issue policies that turn the community (and the nation) against them. They seem to have this blanket policy nowadays in regards to their sidearms. Instead of using restraint and maybe catching the "suspect" another day, they just open up.

And so sure they are triggering on the right guy? Who shoots at cops and then runs? Most people either shoot or run. And everyone runs when shots ring out, right?

They see someone running and thats gotta be him.... Kapow, Kapow.

His father claimed his son was shot in the back but there is no evidence of this, as the father didn't witness the shooting. A neighbor who called police said they were fighting in her back yard but she didn't see everything that went down. Like Chief Brown said, it is hard to determine just by the bullet hole whether he was shot from in front or the back. An investigation is pending.

I moved to Dallas in '94 and worked in a mall in South Dallas. My first 2 months there we were robbed overnight. Someone broke in, punched a hole through the locked office door and peeled the safe apart. All the money was taken.

When I called 911 they told me my priority list was low since they were too busy investigating murders in the area. No one came out to investigate. My employees and the mall manager suspected it was an inside job by a security officer.

I also had a security officer who was sweet on me and broke into my car to leave a rose on my dash. I quit shortly after that.

No way in heck you will get me near that area again! I live in far North Dallas now.

Apparently protests are now beginning in the area, and civil rights groups are saying that they will do their own investigation into this. The coroner's office is saying that there is no indication that the young man was shot in the back, but DPD is still investigating.