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Show me one corporation that is a person.

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posted on Jul, 24 2012 @ 04:58 PM
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When did the whole corporations are people nonsense start? Likey after some bad legislation was passed by the Bush administration, would be my guess but that's beside the point.

Point is, CORPORATIONS ARE NOT PEOPLE.

Corporations are shared property in the form of a business. True, they are owned by people but that doesn't make them a person.

Last I checked to be a "person" or "people" you have to first be human.

In fact corporations and people are completely different.

One is a business and one its a living being with flesh and blood.
Corps are big, while people small in comparison.
Corps are few, people many.
Corps are powerful and can lobby, while people have next to no power.
Corps are often multinational, while most people live in one country.
Corps have lots of money, most people not so much.
People have thoughts, feelings, and a soul.
I could go on, but I think I made my point.

If you still think corporations are people, tell me why corporations can't go to prison.
In cases where corporations have been found guilty of fraud, the worst the corporations face is getting fined. Often for less then they got away with. What's up with that?
edit on 24-7-2012 by IndieA because: addition




posted on Jul, 24 2012 @ 05:06 PM
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Agreed,..

If corporations are people, I should be able to punch some of them in the face. If I can't punch them in the face they aren't people. If any corporations want to prove their status as a person, step up and get a punch in the head.



posted on Jul, 24 2012 @ 05:09 PM
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Yea, can we prosecute one for say manslaughter, say I don't know, anytime one of them #s up and it ends in death...

You know like when a car defect sends someone into a wall, can we get can some manslaughter charges going based on neglect.

Especially after many defects are known but weighted against likely hood of it causing harm...


edit on 24-7-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 24 2012 @ 05:09 PM
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Good points but some will still disagree with you.




If you still think corporations are people, tell me why corporations can't go to prison.


Here's another one to think about.

You can legally buy and own a corporation and if you choose to kill it. You can't do those things with a person.



posted on Jul, 24 2012 @ 05:11 PM
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reply to post by buster2010
 




buster... mind .... blown



posted on Jul, 24 2012 @ 05:21 PM
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OP I agree with you, but technically speaking...I'm a corporation and so are you.

Your birth certificate is an incorporation of you as an employee of whatever government you were born to.

That's why your "legal" name is all capital letters. It's a legal fiction used to fool you into thinking they have rights and power over you..

So, were all corporations and all people technically speaking.

~Tenth



posted on Jul, 24 2012 @ 05:23 PM
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what about small businesses.

are they people. i see that as discrimination.

why can't pasquale's plumbing be a person too.

or annies bakery or joes hardware store.

they should be people too and receive every advantage, privilege and tax break that corporate people do.

america is so full of bigotry that they even managed to find a way to discriminate against buildings, stores and businesses.

its all ridiculous and another prong in the attack to dehumanize and attack one of God's ultimate masterpieces, the human race.



posted on Jul, 24 2012 @ 05:26 PM
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If they are people how come they can get away with not paying taxes and I don't. There are all kind of laws that protect corporations that do not apply to people. If they are people I must also be a corporation and eligible for the same tax breaks and shelters and the same protection from the law. The way to fix this is to demand equal rights. If a corporation can be a person than I must be a corporation. You can't grant rights to one person and not another. We are all created equal the paperwork says so. I say we all start acting like corporations and see how long that lasts. When they call you out on it plead discrimination and sue them call the corporation as a witness and subpoena them and let the court figure out who to serve the papers to.



posted on Jul, 24 2012 @ 05:31 PM
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The word "corporation" comes from the root word "corpus" which means "body" in the same way as "habeus corpus" does. I believe it started in Middle Europe where "corporations" were granted charters by the Crown to exist as a separate legal entities from a person. It was considered quite innovative at the time because a business not owned by a single person or partnership did not exist prior.

In other words, "corporation" has never meant it is a "person," but just the opposite, that it is a separate legal entity from a person. The opposite of a corporation is a sole proprietorship, which does not exist outside the person. A corporation can maintain its existence beyond the person, as many have.

A corporation is legally liable for debts and can be sued, just like a person, but ultimately a corporation is owned by people, a group of people, or a whole lot of people, and in certain instances these owners can be held liable for the acts of a corporation, particularly its officers and Board of Trustees. Its common shareholders,--not so much.

What you have done here is create a straw man argument. You have defined corporation to your disliking, then proceeded to show how it doesn't measure up to the definition you made up for it in the first place. You've done that because you've heard other people talk about corporations as "people." You've decided to misunderstand what they meant by that in a simplistic manner (or perhaps willfully: I don't know), then repeated the mistake, railing against your own misperception as a rant, which is neither credible nor insightful.
edit on 7/24/2012 by schuyler because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 24 2012 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by buster2010
Good points but some will still disagree with you.




If you still think corporations are people, tell me why corporations can't go to prison.


Here's another one to think about.

You can legally buy and own a corporation and if you choose to kill it. You can't do those things with a person.

Hmmm. I suppose the accuracy of your answer depends on where (and when) exactly we're talking about...I'm sure in a matter of some-odd decades, corporations will likely be protected against various violence except for cases authorized and exercised by the state, just like with us today...

While I'd like to agree with the OP overall, given the definition of "corporation", I'm not so sure I can. It's basically a legal golem.

Take care.



posted on Jul, 24 2012 @ 06:12 PM
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Corporate personhood is only a legal concept propagated by... surprise... corporations. There is no law defining corporations as people.


Wikipedia - Corporate Personhood

Corporate personhood is the legal concept that a corporation may sue and be sued in court in the same way as natural persons or unincorporated associations of persons. This doctrine in turn forms the basis for legal recognition that corporations, as groups of people, may hold and exercise certain rights under the common law and the U.S. Constitution. The doctrine does not hold that corporations are "people" in the literal sense, nor does it grant to corporations all of the rights of citizens.


This video explains how this came about and what it really means.



As for the OP asking about corporations not going to prison, this is a case where corps enjoy the rights but don't bear the responsibility. IMO, a corporation that is found guilty of fraud or any other criminal activity should be subject to the same judicial process as any other person.

Any natural person that is found guilty of a severe criminal act generally spends time in jail, limiting their ability to interact with the general public. Corporations found guilty should be forced to suspend operations for a given amount of time. Of course, employees would still have to be paid for the duration. If not a total suspension, they should, at least, be subject to a "probation" wherein they would be required to check in with a legal authority at given intervals and provide evidence that they have not done anything for which they could be held criminally liable.



posted on Jul, 24 2012 @ 07:57 PM
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Persons that own a small home business, lawn services, for example, are encouraged to incorporate for protection.

Reason being that incorporating protects the person from being sued. The corporation gets sued, rather than the individual.

So saying all corprations are huge is a fallacy.

It offers an individual a form of protection that keeps them from losing everything they own if something were to happen where they are held liable, which is reasonable if you are running a business and do something you are later found at fault for. This is why websites like Legalzoom are making such a bangup living, you can incorporate for as little as 35.00, and in todays litiginous society, it is the wise thing to do to protect personal assets.

Wife, brothers, mom, dad, uncles, best friends, will commonly be the board.

www.incorp.com...


InCorp provides several asset protection weapons for business owners and investors. Such weapons include a Nevada "C" and "S" Corporation, Limited Liability Company, and a Family Limited Partnership. These business entities limit most creditors' claims to your "business" assets. Thus, your family's "personal" assets remain safe and secure.



Whether you are a professional, small-business owner, or simply someone who has built up a nice little financial nest-egg for your retirement and children's education, you should consider taking advantage of asset protection weapons. They're all perfectly legal, and perfectly smart!



So, build your suit of armor before trouble comes your way. And always remember, if you don't have an asset protection plan, you still have a plan; you've simply planned to allow someone to take your hard-earned assets away from you.



A wrongful death lawsuit such as the one that would result in our example could easily run into millions of dollars, exceeding insurance policy limitations and coverage. A lawsuit like this would ruin most people; incorporation is needed protection. I cannot urge people strongly enough to be prepared. Prepare for the worse, and hope for the best. There are also lawsuits that come from employees to consider, such as wrongful termination, discrimination or sexual harassment.

There are customers who could sue for service failures, loss profits, damage to reputation, slander, and more. There are suppliers who could sue, people who just walk across your yard and slip or step into a hole, can sue. The possibilities go on and on.



According to the National Center for State Courts more than 19 million civil lawsuits were filed in the United States in 1992 alone.



posted on Jul, 24 2012 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by schuyler
 


So how do you explain corporate personhood then?



posted on Jul, 24 2012 @ 08:28 PM
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reply to post by IndieA
 


It's always been that way. The whole point of incorporating is so capitalists can protect their wealth.

The corporation is treated the same way a person is in court, that way if an incorporated company goes bust, it is the corporation that takes the flak. The owners can not be sued or their personal wealth be taken for bankruptcy.

If a company fails the only people that really get hurt are the workers. It creates a system that encourages owners to make risky decisions that effect communities. It also allows small companies to become more powerful as an incorporated whole, and have more influence over government.

It shows the hypocrisy of conditioning us to embrace individuality and competition, over cooperation and organizing. They do what they tell us not to do. They understand the power of collectivizing and wish to keep it from us.



posted on Jul, 24 2012 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by schuyler
A corporation is legally liable for debts and can be sued, just like a person, but ultimately a corporation is owned by people, a group of people, or a whole lot of people, and in certain instances these owners can be held liable for the acts of a corporation, particularly its officers and Board of Trustees. Its common shareholders,--not so much.


That is the point it protects the owners from being liable for their companies actions, if it is incorporated.

It does not protect the workers.



posted on Jul, 24 2012 @ 11:29 PM
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everything is george bushs' fault.



posted on Jul, 25 2012 @ 12:11 AM
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reply to post by IndieA
 


The concept has been around for some time as some posters have already replied

The recent rise in discussion of the issue began last year with the Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission Supreme Court decision. en.wikipedia.org... Easier to read the whole article for yourself than to explain it. Part of it has to do with free speech and the timing of certain political commercials. Another aspect has to do with the monetary contribution limits of corporations to political campaigns. Thanks to the Supreme Court the law has been made unconstitutional and corporations can contribute as much as they want to continue corrupting the Republic (Yes, my bias is intentional).

Last week (July 15) there was an article in the Wall Street Journal written by former CEO of General Electric; Jack Welch. This caused the issue to be raised again in the minds of many. online.wsj.com...

I did not hear it myself and cannot confirm or deny it (and am too lazy to research it), but I think Obama or one of his people talked about corporate person-hood also last week. Whether it was in response to the Welch article or the catalyst of the Welch article, I am cannot be sure. Perhaps someone else can provide that.

There is an inherent danger in this corporate person-hood issue, beyond the good ones that have already been mentioned. Corporations pay income taxes on their profits. Profits are essentially the money left over (remaining) from their gross revenue after all corporate expenses and allowable deductions are calculated.

In contrast, you and I pay income taxes on our gross revenue.

What if the government were gearing up to begin taxing corporations (large, medium and small) in the same manner that we as individuals are taxed? That is, on our gross revenue?

The Occupy people might at first think this is a good idea, if they do, they have not thought past the tips of their collective noses.

Many small businesses would collapse within a year. Those that have good demand for their product and are able to survive through price increases could hang in there. However we are talking about a 35 to 75 percent increase in their costs which would automatically be seen in an increased cost in the products and services we wish to consume by 35 to 75 percent. The big guys (big multi-national) corporations probably wouldn't care much. They will increase their prices, their lobbyists will get special dispensation or subsidies to make up for the potential lost profits, and their lawyers will find tricks and loopholes that we as individuals and small businesses do not have the money or knowledge to find ourselves.

For some reason, I am reminded of Ned Beatty's God speech in the movie "Network"
edit on 25-7-2012 by dirkpotters because: (no reason given)




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