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Let me tell you something pretty cool.
ODIN was hung on the world tree (but upside down) for 9 days. He "sacrificed himself unto himself." He was also pierced in the side by his own spear.
My last reply to you on this topic. You need to make your own choice of what to believe and then live by it. Either the Bible is what it claims to be or it is not. There is no middle ground (shade of grey) on this. Either Jesus died and was resurrected or it is a hoax. There have been hundreds of documents found in the last century that dispute the events of the Bible or provide alternate stories. All of these documents I am aware of are newer than the oldest copies of the gospels and letters in the New Testament.
Believe me when I say that I understand your confusion. Christianity today is a mess in many ways and on many levels...in what is taught, in what is not taught, in the way it is lived by those that claim to believe, and the way it is not lived by those that claim to believe.
They did it to the "gnostics Christians," the Cathars (igniting the Inquisition), and another group that I can't quite remember, at least. They use their superior military power as always, and shamefully brutalize people to suppress information.
All Bibles come from the Romans. I don't trust the Romans.
Originally posted by wildtimes
Nope, no middle gruond.
Either he died and was resurrected, or it was a hoax.
I'm leaning toward hoax.
What we know of resurrection is that it takes a long time (days),
The first written accounts of those stories are from the Poetic Edda of the 13th century. It's also pretty obvious that things were an oral tradition before all that.
Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by wildtimes
See the rebuttal to his post. Don't buy that garbage.
Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Praetorius
There's not much support for the swoon theory in light of biblical testimony (regarding his wounds and the following events) and what we know of crucifixion as well as various related roman/jewish practices. It doesn't seem to pass muster for a good number of reasons.
I've found plenty of support for the "swoon" theory, actually, from studying non-Christian writings and such.
What we know of resurrection is that it takes a long time (days), and the fact that he was taken down a few hours after his being pinned up there gives credence to the concept that he was not really dead...
Did he not still take upon himself the sins of the world? Did he not rise again after three days, the result being that the his Great Work symbolically transends the winter solstice as a cosmological principal of death and resurrection, pointing to a greater truth and reality?
And if he wasn't actually born of a virgin, did he not make the world new (virginal) again when he said to his mother, while carrying the cross "behold woman! I make all things new!"
I see his great sorrow, and his joyful triumph, clearly, and as a real historical person that's believable, for me at least it's even MORE compelling than the church version of the story.
And that he did make it though, that he did triumph and experience his liberation from the tomb, my oh my what an awesome thing to consider... for those than can..
I just would like some feedback from those who "believe" or "disbelieve", backed up by accessible resources other than the Bible or the Quran. I'd like to hear what people who are looking into alternatives to "yes, he did" or, "no, he did not" die to contribute.
You don't want your position examined, and you don't want the Bible or the Koran used. You seem to want ATS to (and forgive me for this, because I'm sure I'm misunderstanding you) put on a debate with research and the whole business. Again, forgive me, but why bother?
Originally posted by benrl
Well, some may not know this, but none of the apostles ever denied their faith.
I believe only one of the original 12 did not have a gruesome end, that included being crucified upside down...
And all they had to do to recant.
Do the research on how each apostle met his end... Don't take my word on that one.
Remember, his legs were not broken
A hisop or stick was used to lift a sponge to him supposedly soaked in vinigar
A roman soldier was present who was sympathetic to his plight
Joseph of Aramathea took his body into his custody and owned the tomb itself
Rich men in dazzling white were seen by the empty tomb, with prior knowledge that he was alive,