NSA whistle blowers warn that the US government can use surveillance to 'see into your life'

reply to post by GENERAL EYES

I do.

So when are the Bush's going to be invited to the fish fry?

reply to post by ninjas4321


I wonder if this Thomas Drake is the same Drake that David Wilcock mentions so much.

I think that is safe to assume that the NSA has access to EVERY database known in the U.S.A. I do not think that it is unreasonable to hypothesize that they have, can and will intercept every phone call and have voice print analysis of anyone who has used a phone in recent years and of course emails and other communications are intercepted, cross referenced and stored. AND I think that what I have just stated is but the tip of the iceberg. I think when we find out and find out we shall, the extent of our own governments treachery we will be amazed and nauseated. But, I'm just a conspiracy genre afficianado and posit the latter as more of a Orwellesque minor presentation. Have I told all of you wonderful boys and girls of the NSA how wonderful you all are and that Barrack Obama is the best thing since store bought tortilla's?

reply to post by Trexter Ziam

Surveillance is stalking ... simple.

Eh, there's a bit of a difference.

When we bring Third Country Nationals onto our compound - we are always keeping an eye on them. This is for a number of reasons. Sure - the obvious one is that they may try to do something to harm someone or something. But more often, it's because they end up getting hurt (driving their car into stationary objects, fasting from water in observance of Ramadan while it's 120 outside, etc).

We don't have to stalk or pry into their lives to find out information about them. There's the forklift guys - always love driving their forklifts. There's the guys who handle cleaning on the compound.

Even our contract workers. One of our Dubai Ports World Security guys recently had a baby back home. We take good care of him (and he loves running off gypsy cabs). Half of our Gurkhas are grandfathers. We try to make sure things are going alright back home and keep them in good shape. They work their asses off on a daily basis and many have been working here for years away from their families.

We don't pry into their life. We just make conversation and answer questions about our own lives (the first thing we're asked is if we're married - a big thing to many other cultures).

Of course - when trucks stop outside the walls of our compound, we watch the drivers to see what they are up to. I'm not aware of a time when it's been anything nefarious... but when you're in charge of making sure bad things don't happen, and a truck full of 10,000 liters of liquid fuel picks the wall of your compound to park by (when there's plenty of open room where it came from) - it would be negligent to dismiss the obvious potential for bad things.

Surveillance is collecting information. There are many methods to collect information both actively and passively.

When you offer up information - the recipient(s) of that information can collect it and use it later along with other information. This is passive surveillance.

When someone has to look or search for information on you - this is active surveillance.

In practical scenarios, there's almost always an element of both. Searching through public records is not exclusively passive or active. The records are available - but they are not being broadcast per se.

If we are not criminals or suspects, there's no excuse for stalking us.

But this doesn't change the fact that it will happen for any number of reasons.

Which is why you should be aware of how the game is played.

Like I was saying earlier - if I were investigating a crime or an individual - I would do what it took to acquire information and evidence - then worry about what could or couldn't be used in a trial. There's only consequences for breaking laws when you're caught. Sometimes - to catch a criminal, you have to be willing to work outside of your own laws.

That said - there is a considerable amount of evidence manufacturing in today's world. With enough evidence - you can build a case to link anyone to just about any crime. Which is partly why I say that you need to know how the game is played.

People will conduct surveillance on you for reasons that are good, bad, selfish, or otherwise. It's a fact of life. Whether they should or shouldn't is immaterial.

Knowledge is power - particularly when it pertains to individuals. Shopping habits, commute routines, social hangouts, personality tics - all are things that can be exploited by those who know about them (for marketing purposes, or more sinister purposes). While you can live most, if not all of your life naive to the reality of surveillance - it comes in handy to know what other people are looking at and for when the hair on the back of your neck stands up.

Expect "they" know your routines, frequent social contacts, etc. Breaking those routines can flag you as suspicious or on the run - while continuing to follow them can lead you straight into danger. You have to assess the situation and gather your own intelligence who is so hot on your heels that you're getting spooked.

It's why I never drive home when I have someone tailgating me. I'll pass right on by and keep driving down the country road and meander my way back into town. It's always been some gungho redneck who drives by proximity to the vehicle in front of him/her as opposed to any concept of speed. But in the off chance it's someone who wants to make a scene (whether I can think of a reason or not is irrelevant) - it can be done in the middle of town, not outside my home (and if they don't know where that is, I'd rather not show them).

That said - I don't believe in all-seeing eyes of the government. I've seen the bureaucracy first hand... they can't keep track of their military with biometric data and computerized databases. Civilians are a tough mark.

reply to post by GENERAL EYES

I grew up in an environment where I was fully aware of being monitored due to the sensitive nature of my fathers job, and the fact that this is not being manned by possible "over-reactionary" humans gives me comfort.

I know for a fact the NSA and it's computers are not interested in the minutia of our day to day lives, the things we might be embarrassed if the world found out, but rather focuses on legitimate threats....and I can say without a doubt that such information will not be used in an unprofessional manner.

There are a number of positive things which can come from total observation of society. Reduced crime rates, increased convictions on suspects and reduced number of innocent people being convicted for crime they didn't commit.

If every action we take is under observation than not only does our behaviour change but also the outcome of any situation. It's kind of like when kids act nice when their parents are around and hoodlums in their absence.

The problem with this however, as so many dystopian novels have point out, and Lord Acton so eloquently put, is that we can't trust ourselves in a system of total control.

Today we reduce crime rates yes, but 100 years from now what if the wrong people are steering the impenetrable ship. What then? Total corruption of a system designed to protect us from ourselves, possibly being used to protect a select few against the masses. (If you don't see it that way in the current state of the system.)

I'm not much for living in the stone ages, so I say lets move forward with progress, but don't forget where the roots are. It's coming whether or not there are objections to it.

And ? No surprise there ... known theyve been doing that for years .... even with those guys blowing the whistle it will continue to happen ...

they can spy all they want, but if you're not breaking any laws they can't do squat.

Originally posted by randomname
they can spy all they want, but if you're not breaking any laws they can't do squat.

Do you really believe that?

And how do you know if you are breaking any laws? There are over 600,000 of them, many being nothing more than a "thought crime".

Originally posted by ninjas4321

NSA whistle blowers warn that the US government can use surveillance to 'see into your life'

current.com

National Security Agency whistle blowers Thomas Drake, former senior official; Kirk Wiebe, former senior analyst; and William Binney, former technical director, return to “Viewpoint” to talk about their allegations that the NSA has conducted illegal domestic surveillance. All three men are providing evidence in a lawsuit by the Electronic Frontier Foundation against the NSA.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.motivatedinohio.com
www.zimbio.com

Thanks for telling us what we've known for years.
Good job whistle blowers!

Originally posted by Trexter Ziam
Surveillance is stalking ... simple.

I had a stalker in the 70's. He followed me everywhere, cut a friend's tires, even tried to get my daughter in the daycare center! Stalkers constantly watch.

If we are not criminals or suspects, there's no excuse for stalking us.

The hunter and the hunted ... the hunter and the prey ... the prey isn't just edible meat (bad guys) anymore ... it's us good people too.

It's just wrong, plain, simple, wrong.

What if we are in a open range prison and the stalkers/surviellance agents are correctional officers?

They are checking up with us neutered slaves/serfs. Checking to see how we act in extreme situations.

reply to post by GENERAL EYES

have never seen cause to fear it when it's used responsibly and by the RIGHT people.
---
there are good people trying to balance it out with proper application of said tech.

The point is that the Government shouldn't have such extensive monitoring technology being actively implemented against it's own citizens in the first place. "We just need to hope the right people use it"... you are monumentally naive if that's your position.

reply to post by GENERAL EYES

i get that you have some insider iinfo on the subject can you elaborate on them looking for the big fish?
thank you

Originally posted by GENERAL EYES

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

 

Naive? Or someone who has seen how unmonitored and unregulated areas conduct themselves?

I've lived both on base, in monitored civilian neighborhoods and unregulated ghettos. Naive? I think not.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

GASP!!! The horror of free people acting freely!

I, personally, would rather not have anyone be spied on in my name, or in a perceived duty to protect me.

reply to post by GENERAL EYES


I don't care what you've seen or what your experience is. Your logic is entirely flawed. The Government should not be able to monitor us in this way and build complex profiles on all citizens, unless they have probable cause. Anything else is unconstitutional. Humans can't be trusted with this technology. Simple as that. And if you think it's all fine and dandy, and that we can rely on the right people to use it, you are naive.

There are so much FEAR being pumped out from the controlling cabals WANTING you to be in absolutely FEAR that they watch over you 24/7. Think about it for a moment, even they have advanced AI computers, so what? I can't imagine that someone has the time or the bother to keep an eye out on YOU, who do you think you are or what good will it do for 'them' to look at everything that you do.

The fact is THEY don't care about you except to feed you with enough fear and you'll then automatically develops paranoia and BINGO, you then become your own slave of your own mindset.

Chill out, there is nothing the cabal can do to you and I suggest you to check out all the 'disinfo' so you give your powers away for nothing.

Post-9/11 didn't Bush authorize NSA to conduct wire-taping, etc, without a court order or warrants? So, basically isn't this thread a moot point, no offense to the OP. It's free-game on the American public's rights.

Originally posted by ninjas4321

NSA whistle blowers warn that the US government can use surveillance to 'see into your life'

current.com

National Security Agency whistle blowers Thomas Drake, former senior official; Kirk Wiebe, former senior analyst; and William Binney, former technical director, return to “Viewpoint” to talk about their allegations that the NSA has conducted illegal domestic surveillance. All three men are providing evidence in a lawsuit by the Electronic Frontier Foundation against the NSA.

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.motivatedinohio.com
www.zimbio.com

We have a CONGRESS that does nothing to stop this. We have a PRESIDENT that promotes it privately. We have a SUPREME COURT that refuses to address it and its CONSTITUTIONALITY.

What are WE to do ? REVOLT ? REVOLUTION ? Thomas Jefferson was right. We SHOULD see a REVOLUTION every 20 Years in this country and it is NOT by the BALLOT BOX ! And, the NSA is building a NEW FACILITY in UTAH that will PROFILE and DOSSIER every single person in the UsA. This has never been allowed in the past .... WHY NOW ? Where is the all REVOLT about or over that issue ?

Originally posted by GENERAL EYES
I'm fully aware that such technology exists and understand it's implementation in the modern day and age, thank you for the confirmation video.

While our forefathers lived in a completely different day and age when the original amendment was instituted, we can't deny that America has grown exponentially over the years population wise, and that there are more acts of unnecessary violence than ever before due to these factors that our forefathers may not have been able to foresee.

If such technology can prevent the loss of life of innocent civilians or thwart large scale threats, I understand why it's come down to this decision.

I grew up in an environment where I was fully aware of being monitored due to the sensitive nature of my fathers job, and the fact that this is not being manned by possible "over-reactionary" humans gives me comfort.

I know for a fact the NSA and it's computers are not interested in the minutia of our day to day lives, the things we might be embarrassed if the world found out, but rather focuses on legitimate threats....and I can say without a doubt that such information will not be used in an unprofessional manner.

Why not just say "The government is your friend, you can trust them".
"Go back to sleep little sheep"?
Not being manned by over reactionary humans? Those are the very ones it is being manned by. The ones who get the info and then kick down your door because you bought too many rounds at WalMart. As far as the comment "such information will not be used in an unprofessional manner" Seriously?

If 'they' were looking into my life, theyd get really bored, all I do is read, harass my gf & my son, and play my computer games.
If they were looking at my grocery store card, they only thing they could say is I buy lots of chicken wings and coke lol