Justice Department Investigating Pa. Voter ID Law

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posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 12:35 AM
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reply to post by Honor93
 

On part 1... You know, I honestly didn't know Texas had so many non-licenese/ID card methods allowed until I pulled it all up for this thread. That is the best thing about ATS above all else. I learn so much... some from other posts but mostly by the time spent looking things up that posts spur my curiosity for. One thing I didn't look up, because I really didn't want the answer....was what they meant by other forms of issued photo ID. Would the Mexican Consular cards work to vote in the U.S. too? Yeah..I really figured there was a point I didn't need more info. lol...


On the second part though.. This came up in my Political class last semester in terms of how someone could abuse the system in a place like our state, which is very much like yours. You need photo ID to register with the clerk initially, but I actually had my ID handed back to me while they took the non-photo voting card when I was there for the primary. (I just handed both, automatically). When I'd asked, he'd specifically said the photo ID is NOT to be looked at unless someone has no Registration card.


Now, the method we all came up with to abuse that system..and it took only a couple minutes.. was disturbingly simple. Without a Photo-ID at the poll anyway. 50% or so vote...that's statistical fact on average. That means there is a fair to better than average chance you know people who have cards but no intention of voting for whatever reason. Could be anything..... Our town has 1 polling station to a district and there are a number if districts. See where I'm going?


If one collects up the cards from friends, you have as many times at the ballot box, under everyone else's name, as you can find Polling places that have people who haven't actually laid eyes on your face that day. If you start in the opening shift, we figured, you could actually make the rounds twice in some cases. Just playing around and for my district, there were a few in the class who did have cards...didn't plan to vote..and would have been able to give me extra votes, if I were dishonest or outright criminal.

It was a feel good exercise because absolutely no one actually intended to DO what we gamed out and worked the angles on. It's viable though.. Perfectly viable. It doesn't let you vote more than you can find cards the owner isn't planning to use, but....That's a lot of cards out there when turn out is THIS low.

*Oh... They also have the standby's you can do if you have neither an ID OR a registration card. They swear they check all that somehow later, before counting them. (Maybe it's checking which way the vote on that ballot goes..I dunno).




posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 01:07 AM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by nunyadammm
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Mail is a photo ID?

Under the laws of the State of Texas and for purposes of Identification at a polling place, yes.


I do not think you read what you responded to.
Mail is not a photo ID.
Not even in Texas.
But at least you are barely paying attention to what you pretend matters so much.



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 01:09 AM
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Originally posted by Honor93
from my understanding, citizens who are not registered to vote may not cast one.
(this may differ state to state)
but, if registering is required to cast a vote, why do we need additional verifications to participate ?


It is obvious most people on ATS have never voted. Those are the ones that think illegal aliens can come and ask to vote in Spanish and they just get to vote because they asked if they could. None of this combats the real voter fraud and will not deter anyone but it makes ignorant right wingers feel good.



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 02:10 AM
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Originally posted by nunyadammm

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by nunyadammm
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Mail is a photo ID?

Under the laws of the State of Texas and for purposes of Identification at a polling place, yes.


I do not think you read what you responded to.
Mail is not a photo ID.
Not even in Texas.
But at least you are barely paying attention to what you pretend matters so much.


Well... I did read what you said. You do make your jabs at people so succinct, it's hard not to see them. I also posted the direct *LAW* from the state of Texas and the link is to their STATE SITE. No.... Mail is NOT a photo ID. YES...they ACCEPT Mail under some circumstances. It's spelled out, right there in black and white in the Texas State law on their elections. I was surprised to find it as well, actually...I'd have figured they would be straight out Photo ONLY.....but, the law says what it says and that isn't debatable...unless we want to go fight with Governor Perry about it, because he signed it.

I'd dropped foe status..by the way. It's why you saw me reply at all. I figured things had changed a little. That was a mistake and correcting it is my first step after this. You won't be seeing a reply or note from me, to you or about you on any matter, of any kind..whatsoever from here on out. I debate people..not trolls. Have a good night.



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 02:18 AM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Well... I did read what you said. You do make your jabs at people so succinct, it's hard not to see them. I also posted the direct *LAW* from the state of Texas and the link is to their STATE SITE. No.... Mail is NOT a photo ID.


All I said was "mail is a photo ID?"
You then said yes.
What was my jab at you in that?



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 04:52 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 
i've never seen a MCC, i had to look that one up ... interesting.

hmmmm, really ?

When I'd asked, he'd specifically said the photo ID is NOT to be looked at unless someone has no Registration card.
of course the innocent citizen will have "forgotten" their reg card
, but they should still be listed on the voter rolls and be easily identified.
which begs the question, how can a non-registered voter be verified as a registered voter, even with a photo ID ?

yep, i follow what you're saying and our districts were recently changed with polling stations reduced.
i totally follow you ... had i chose to, i could have submitted 2 addl votes every year since 06 via mail-ins received for dead persons.

the system is and has been broken for a long time and i still think this current ploy is designed to make the fraud less detectable, nothing more.



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 04:58 AM
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reply to post by nunyadammm
 

It is obvious most people on ATS have never voted. Those are the ones that think illegal aliens can come and ask to vote in Spanish and they just get to vote because they asked if they could. None of this combats the real voter fraud and will not deter anyone but it makes ignorant right wingers feel good.
not sure why you Replied to me specifically as i assure you i vote regularly and probably for more years than you are old.

i also have voted for decades in one of the few states where voter fraud has been proven and prosecuted. it happens ... and more often than not.

who said anything about spanish ??
non-registered doesn't automatically mean illegal, however, the Tx rule posted does explicitly make it easier for illegals to cast a vote whether registered or not.

i agree that none of this is going to deter fraudulent voting, it's aimed at increasing it with less detection.



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 07:25 AM
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Originally posted by Honor93
not sure why you Replied to me specifically as i assure you i vote regularly and probably for more years than you are old.


Because I have no clue how to respond to someone else and respond to what you wrote. I would think I would have to reply to you in order to respond to what you wrote. Is this too complicated? You have no idea how old I am but that is ok, you do not need information in order to make up your mind.


i also have voted for decades in one of the few states where voter fraud has been proven and prosecuted. it happens ... and more often than not.


COOL. SHOW ME.


who said anything about spanish ??


I did. Where did you get lost?


non-registered doesn't automatically mean illegal, however, the Tx rule posted does explicitly make it easier for illegals to cast a vote whether registered or not.


How so? Is it easier for illegals to register?



i agree that none of this is going to deter fraudulent voting, it's aimed at increasing it with less detection.


Oh uh...ok.



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 
i've never seen a MCC, i had to look that one up ... interesting.


I'm not sure I get what you're asking..? I mention my experience with my photo ID here because it actually shocked me and I said so at the time. I handed him both cards, one atop the other and making a point not to look at it beyond a glance, he handed the Drivers License back to me like it carried a virus. It's possible they got some lecture or special focus on that specifically, given how much is in the news..and that was the reaction.

Anyway... With the Voter card and no ID, they just check the name on the card, check the rolls...and take my word for it than I really am the same person the card was mailed to. I'm sure I'd have issues if I handed them a card with 'Mary' or 'Jennifer' as the name. I'm no Mary....but with my male name, that's apparently all they need next to the Voter registration card I could print up if I had a mind to. I mean, here anyway, it's just a yellow card with the info. No security features of any kind... The Library card is literally more secure. It DOES have a couple security things on IT.

Crazy, isn't it? It must make an interesting statement to the world when it's lacking pretty much any verification of any kind...aside from knowing a name on the rolls in advance and being fairly sure they haven't actually shown up. Even Iraqi voting say the U.S. requiring an inked finger that would take a couple days to fully fade. I'd even take that to the wide open free for all this basically is. (By the way...Voter data is real easy to get. Names... all of it.. It takes a P.I. license to get the Database access with the paid services..but voter reg was one of the tabs when I last saw the screen of one of the major ones..as far as how one would know a name in advance.)
edit on 12-8-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: dropping 90% of quote for space



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 09:06 AM
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"hmm... should I buy that bag of doritos and two tall dogs, or buy a new ID so I can vote?"..

.."Lets party!".

Come on people.

Anyone living in this country can afford it. Some just dont know how to spend their money.

Save a couple dollars every week for two months if you have to, its not that expensive.

We all know this isnt about ID, its all about getting those illegal votes. End of story.



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 09:13 AM
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Sorry to double post, but I located a couple things here that may help for people reading through here and not familiar with how this all works in practice. It's easy to get the wrong impression and simply assume there MUST be more to it....when quite literally..there isn't. There SHOULD be..it's what these laws are meant to accomplish. However, at the moment..... Oh, it's crazy.

Our state lays it out far more clearly and specifically than the Texas site. It's the same law, as I can generally see but Missouri leaves absolutely no room for confusion on how little it takes to claim you are you.... 3 of the items on the page there could be printed on any half way decent, double sided printer. Or..a single, if someone has the patience to do it precisely right.

Missouri State Voter ID requirements at the Polling location

and here is what the Voter ID card looks like closer...



It really isn't partisan to me..and we'll still need this law after the election as much as we do now if it has to come after just to make the point that it's not Obama related. I think it's just about making sure our Nation isn't a total laughing stock for requiring nothing more than a utility bill and no photo of any kind? (I DID see some examples where states make their Voter card with a picture on it. We aren't one of them....nor is Texas from the examples I saw there. Is PA?)



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by Common Good
We all know this isnt about ID, its all about getting those illegal votes. End of story.


What illegal votes?
Can you be specific?
Factless talking points are lost on me.



posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000


It really isn't partisan to me..and we'll still need this law after the election as much as we do now if it has to come after just to make the point that it's not Obama related. I think it's just about making sure our Nation isn't a total laughing stock for requiring nothing more than a utility bill and no photo of any kind? (I DID see some examples where states make their Voter card with a picture on it. We aren't one of them....nor is Texas from the examples I saw there. Is PA?)





Why would we need this law? None of the lawmakers pushing this law even think we actually need it. No one I can ask can tell me why we need it. I am hoping you will be the one.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 02:57 AM
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reply to post by nunyadammm
 
this beginning is all the "info" necessary, thanks.

It is obvious most people on ATS have never voted.
generally, it is youthful minds that tend to generalize in such nonsensical ways.
many ATS members aren't even US citizens.
however, they very well may have voted in their own country/region.

show you what ??
voter fraud, election fraud, petition fraud, deceased voting, felon voting, absentee ballot fraud ?? what more do you need ?

www.rnla.org...
11/28/2011 GEORGIA: 12 officials indicted for vote fraud
"12 former Brooks County officials were indicted for voter fraud. The suspects are accused of illegally helping people vote by absentee ballot…. The defendants include some workers in the voter registrar's office and some school board members. They are Angela Bryant, April Proctor, Brenda Monds, Debra Denard, Lula Smart, Kechia Harrison, Robert Denard, Sandra Cody, Elizabeth Thomas, Linda Troutman, Latashia Head, and Nancy Denard." Stephen Abel, 12 former officials indicted for voter fraud, WALB, Nov. 28, 2011.

if you were responding to me then what does spanish have to do with anything?
couldn't find a reasonable argument i presume ??

apparently since "official mail" is an acceptable ID and clearly not all voters are verified prior to casting a ballot, why bother registering at all ??
in some regions, ppl are verified by a smile and a wink as they have been for decades.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 03:02 AM
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reply to post by korathin
 


There is no need to be so venomous.

There is nothing "left" or "right" about this issue. This is an issue of infringing upon the rights of American citizens to freely vote. If a person has difficulty in getting a photo I.D, that is an instant roadblock for them under a voter ID law.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 03:11 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 
was it the 'MCC' that confused you ??
you brought it up, i shortened it ... Mexican Consular Card or something like that.
www.ask.com...
i had never seen one (rather surprising for this region) so i looked it up.

i appreciate you sharing experience and said so, why do you think i don't?
yeppers, it's crazy alright, even the district on many reg cards is wrong cause ppl don't update when they move.
you'd be surprised how many years "Mary" has been voting in a state she hasn't resided in for 20 yrs or so.



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by Honor93
generally, it is youthful minds that tend to generalize in such nonsensical ways.




That is quite a nonsensical generalization you just made. How young are you?


many ATS members aren't even US citizens.
however, they very well may have voted in their own country/region.


In this thread, who is not a US citizen? Seems almost everyone is.


show you what ??
voter fraud, election fraud, petition fraud, deceased voting, felon voting, absentee ballot fraud ?? what more do you need ?

www.rnla.org...
11/28/2011 GEORGIA: 12 officials indicted for vote fraud
"12 former Brooks County officials were indicted for voter fraud. The suspects are accused of illegally helping people vote by absentee ballot…. The defendants include some workers in the voter registrar's office and some school board members. They are Angela Bryant, April Proctor, Brenda Monds, Debra Denard, Lula Smart, Kechia Harrison, Robert Denard, Sandra Cody, Elizabeth Thomas, Linda Troutman, Latashia Head, and Nancy Denard." Stephen Abel, 12 former officials indicted for voter fraud, WALB, Nov. 28, 2011.

if you were responding to me then what does spanish have to do with anything?
couldn't find a reasonable argument i presume ??


I want to see voter fraud that these ID laws will stop. Have any of that?



apparently since "official mail" is an acceptable ID and clearly not all voters are verified prior to casting a ballot, why bother registering at all ??
in some regions, ppl are verified by a smile and a wink as they have been for decades.


I am not even responding to that nonsense.



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by korathin

Originally posted by LanaG
reply to post by JacKatMtn
 


I don't think your from PA to start off with, something about your reply seems like typical manufactured leftist garbage. It is easy to get an ID or Licence in Pennsylvania. If you can't make it, arrange for a Veterans or Senior Citizen group to take you. And if the DMV's hours are not to your liking(sometimes the registration/info desk is closed and the picture place is open) do like what I did, GO TO A NOTARY OFFICE!! Pay the extra bucks to get them to file it with Harrisburg, and take the form they give you to the Photo center! If you can get off your arse and arrange to vote you can get off your arse and get to the DMV!

Heck I wanna know how you get:
A) Check Cashed
B)Med's if any
C) Medical Appointments

Seriously, the only person who could be against this law, is someone with a vested interest in rigging elections.

Because this law is only targeting people who aren't legally eligible to vote. It isn't a poll tax, nor does it discriminate against anyone, as it is unreasonable not to have a State ID in today's society. Because cases of people having genuine problems with getting a state ID are so far and few in-between I would contact the State Attorney General's Office for help(if your being truthful), as I am sure they will know how to help you. Because the point of the Voting ID Law isn't to harass eligible voters, but to keep people who aren't eligible from voting.



First of all, why on earth would you say you don't believe I'm from Pennsylvania? I've lived here for all of my 62 years.

If this law is targeting only people who aren't legally eligible to vote, why am I having such a hard time?? I've voted in every Presidential election since 1968 and don't intend to break my record.

Getting to the place where I can get an picture ID is much, much more difficult than getting to my polling place which is in my neighborhood.

As far as
A) Check Cashed - I have a checking account with the same bank since the 90s.
B)Med's if any - I don't need a picture ID to get my medications.
C) Medical Appointments - Also don't need a photo ID for my doctor appointments.

"Pay the extra bucks to get them to file it with Harrisburg" If I had the "extra bucks" there would be no problem, but I guess you don't know what it's like to live on a crummy fixed income once you become disabled. Not so easy for me to get off my "arse" these days either.

Hopefully you will think before you type the next time and not insult someone who has just joined and simply wanted to post her opinion and story. You are very rude.



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by pajoly
 


Thanks very much for your support. It means a lot.



posted on Aug, 15 2012 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by VaterOrlaag
reply to post by korathin
 


There is no need to be so venomous.

There is nothing "left" or "right" about this issue. This is an issue of infringing upon the rights of American citizens to freely vote. If a person has difficulty in getting a photo I.D, that is an instant roadblock for them under a voter ID law.


Its very much a left vs right issue. Every new republican state government that is elected attempt to bring voter id to its state, based on voter fraud or election issues. Another hallmark of republican state governments are to purge voter rolls, so if you share the same name as a convicted felon you must prove your eligibility to vote.

There has been 86 conviction for voter fraud in this country since 2002. Claims of illegals voting and fraud are lies or spin from the same party that wishes to suppress voters.

All of these issues are in republican states.





 
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