U.N. Commission Calls for Legalizing Prostitution Worldwide

reply to post by MountainLaurel


Thanks for your story. Those are the types of things I hear from pretty much every single girl I know. I don't know a single woman that is completely without a story like yours. That is the reality of the situation, and it is completely wrong, but it is very common.

As for prostitution, I don't see how it could make the situation any worse. The situation is already as bad as it is, perhaps if these men had healthier and more legal outlets it would be better, maybe not, but certainly not worse, imho.

As for the attraction to teen girls. Men can reproduce from age 12 or 13 on up to 80. Women can only reproduce form about 13 to 40. I believe men are hard-wired to be attracted to females that look the most fertile. There are studies about hip to waist ratio, and there are studies about long hair, healthy nails, bright eyes, etc.

I agree with you that people are not mentally mature until at least 25, and in reality we never stop maturing. I'm so much smarter at 38 than I was at 30 or 35. Life experience changes us. It is an extremely difficult thing to match mental maturation with physical or sexual maturation and put a number on it. Personally, I'm appalled that 18 year olds can serve in the military, but they can't drink alcohol. I'm appalled 18 year olds can vote, but they can't drink alcohol. I once worked a case where a 14 year old girl was the legal guardian for her baby, but she wasn't her own legal guardian. She could talk to us about the child support case for her daughter, but she couldn't talk to us about the child support case that was supporting her!

I don't blame men for having the attraction, I believe it is a normal attraction, but I certainly blame them for doing things that are highly inappropriate, and things they wouldn't do to a mature woman, because that woman might slap the hell out of them. Its a shame more girls don't tell their daddy's.

The flipside of that, is that I rarely encounter a woman that is attracted to a teen boy. Most women are either repulsed by the idea, or they find it comical. Women are hardwired to be attracted to the viable males that offer more than just fertility, and those males are often late 20's or older, and sometimes even much older.

Originally posted by MountainLaurel

Hope you are all well....I have really been thinking alot about this thread today...

Alls well that ends well ...a Good Night Sleep Glad you decided to participate and actually contribute.

There seems to be a "market" for young beautiful "kids"...and as I said before, an 18 year old is not able to truely "consent"....and I would actually take that age up to 25 yrs......many Men are attracted to young girls, and it is obvious why, sweet, innocent, sexy, etc.

Well true. I'm not an expert nor am I a psychologist but the sweet, innocent, sexy etc is not bizzare but there can be several aspects. Many men refuse to grow up and the best years of their lives are relived by dating a younger female. The growth factor of younger generation (all related to growth hormones) is another aspect which we ignore. With the calories and hormones rich food, they grow up and look like adults even in their teen years. Clothing certainly doesn't help if provocative. 13 year old 100 years ago vs 13 year old in 2012 on average are very different physiologically (if someone can site a good reference/source, it would be appreciated ). Certainly in many cases, alcohol is the culprit too when the mistakes are committed. This has nothing to do with the pedos that are out there where either they themselves have been abused as kids and/or feel safer to approach a younger person rather than an adult who could complicate things. In the case of 'camel jockeys', the availability of women behind 'burkha' is slim so the ever so virile male keeps the jockeys as their past time. In several cultures, it is the quest to 'deflower' a virgin and the bragging rights of being the person's first lover. In other cultures, it has also to do with the physiology where the genitals of a younger partner is firmer then the aged ones. There is a society in Africa where they actually sew the vagina of a woman in addition to castrating the women in the hopes to increase the pleasure for the men during intercourse. I apologise if this is too much details but there are several aspects which are openly available to read on the web if you only search the right terms.

I guess the thing I need to get off my chest......is starting from age 12, how many men, uncles, friends fathers ( God that is awful, 4 different friends Dad's) , co-workers( in a "professional" workplace) Friend's husband's, OMG, groped, cornered, grabed, and basically made it clear they wanted sex with me....and here's the crazy part, I never told anyone, when I was a kid, I knew my Dad would go kick those men's ass's, and it would hurt my friends, so I stayed silent, I knew if I told my friend her world would crash....I just pretended it didn't happen, I played dumb, and "escaped" the situation.....

You should have discussed it with your mom if not dad. At the same time, you should instruct your children to do the same should something similar happen to them. Me and my wife discuss about such things often and ensure that our daughter is brought up in a way where our communication lines are not broken no matter what. Often times folks keep quiet since they dont know what to do in a situation as yours. We try to indirectly convey certain messages to my daughter (who is just a toddler at this time...5 years old). Eventually she will be asking the key questions as she grows up and with the outside element beyond our control, the best we can do is to be there for her no matter what but she is well instructed as per what to say and what not to say and what to look and lookout for.

I didn't bring this on, I am the girl next door type, cute, yeah, but I was never overtly sexual...and some man, my friends Dad, cupping my breast at 13 years old, and telling me, "yeah your a B cup" will haunt me forever...I jumped away, it made my friend cry, and I never went back there, I later heard that bastard molested her...

Its still not too late to prosecute his a$$. I am strictly against 'sleepovers' or 'pajama parties' or 'slumber parties'. I dont trust anyone including immediate relatives with my 5 year old. I told my wife very strictly how its going to be. She is ofcourse more than welcome to play at her friends place or have a toddlers play date provided one of us is there and then its back to home we go. With the amount of weirdness out there, no freakin way

but I was unable to cope with the reality of the situation, so how the hell is some poor kid that get's sucked into this whole "mess', supposed to ask for help, when I couldn't even tell my parents that grown men in our neighborhood were hitting on me? I never did anything with any of these men, but I somehow felt ashamed?

I hear you. It all depends on how open you are with one of the parent if not your father but your mother. Only a woman would understand another woman just the same way only another man would understand a man There is nothing to be ashamed about. Just ensure that your kids are open to talk about anything to you if not your husband. We use several methods to get the information out of our 5 year old as per what goes on in the classroom. Nothing usually happens but if a boy was touching her even innocently or if she responded to some weirdness, we need to know She is never felt to be afraid when communicating with us. Kids at that age are innocent and it is all female teachers in the church based school but we do not wish her to become too casual with the boys or girls for that matter. She will be attending public school next month for her kindgergarten. Everything in moderation is our motto for ourselves and for our kids.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by MountainLaurel

 

The flipside of that, is that I rarely encounter a woman that is attracted to a teen boy. Most women are either repulsed by the idea, or they find it comical. Women are hardwired to be attracted to the viable males that offer more than just fertility, and those males are often late 20's or older, and sometimes even much older.

Perhaps you might not have met or know anyone personally but they're out there if you follow up on the news With the ever so changing culture of ours for being 'equal', there are numerous cases just in the recent past 5 years that you can search for where the woman was much older and the men (boys) were below the legal limit

reply to post by MountainLaurel

Personally I am not all that attracted to young or really young females, I have in general when and if I have been attracted to any girl it was always my age or generally older then me, no matter what age I was that is pretty much a constant, but mostly I found them more annoying then anything else. Srry don't mean that in a bad way but ya! anyways.

In all a lot of it is pure biology and urges, how they manifest themselves though. That is a whole nother thing and paradigm, on a given time on a given day, when that biology kicks in. Its is pretty dam hard to control it, but definitely not impossible, and excusing or turning a blind eye to the things your talking about is not a good way to go about it.

And even going by your examples and even given the fact that you were a kid, you should of told your dad or somebody about it. A big reason why they do it is because of that fact, by not saying anything about it or doing anything about it even when you can, it is just showing them, and in there mind it is basically like a green light going on to do that agian. And to keep on doing that if they can.

And frankly you did your friend no service when you withheld the information from your dad that you were groped by her dad, and given that you yourself said that latter on it turned out that your friend got molested by her own dad. Well sorry and given that you are a kid it is excusable, but...Ya you should of definitely told your dad, and even if it came to blows and even if it came to more serious consequences even if it broke up your friends family. And seeing as it turned out that she was abused and most likely that happened anyways, the only difference is that the whole thing went on years longer then it would of if the whole thing was blown open, or confronted.

Anyways I guess the point I want to make is that even when I was "exploted" by Men that I should have been able to trust, I hid it from my Dad, cause he would have killed them......and I had a happy childhood overall....I was loved......but I was unable to cope with the reality of the situation, so how the hell is some poor kid that get's sucked into this whole "mess', supposed to ask for help, when I couldn't even tell my parents that grown men in our neighborhood were hitting on me? I never did anything with any of these men, but I somehow felt ashamed?

You were lucky as you had options. Some do not. And therefore they will not cope with the reality of the situation. Think of that next time and if you ever run into that situation again, and you will see why you feel ashamed. As guilt and the shame always turns inward, like a fire it consumes itself till there is nothing left of the old self and a new self rises out of the ashes, if it rises at all. It is it's nature and even the purpose of guilt and shame to burn things away, be they feelings or even memories.

Thank-You so much to the kind Gentlemen that took the time to give such thoughtful and honest answers to my post....

I would very much like to respond in more detail, and will, but for now, I need to get going again, I am on blind dog duty....lol...long story.....but your all awesome......hopefully I will be able to get on-line at my sis's house later tonight....house sitting for 3 days......

Meanwhile, I hate the idea that the UN even exists, let alone involved in the "sex worker" buisness.....sinister intentions to be sure...but that doesn't change the fact that it's even more stupid to send people to jail for "sex" crimes that are very complicated...and primal.......anyways....more to come......

You know what, I am all about freedom of choice, more jobs, etc. However, there's something alarming about this legalization besides the big topic of morals, that is being "forced" into the industry because of lack of jobs, which can lead to abuse. Sex and sexuality, shouldn't be a forced job option but a choice.


Also, sounds like it's part of the "keep the population in check" plan. Move them closer to a Brave New World where Polyamory is the norm.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
I was just about to suggest they unionize :-)

Now you're talking. Yes, yes and triple yes to that.



Sex workers unite!

Originally posted by tovenar
most of the people in favor of legalizing prostitution are affluent middle and upper-class, mostly males. They are generally well-educated, with a variety of life choices to choose from.


The vast majority of the people who actually have their orifices penetrated for someone's profit are the underclass. They are often not legal citizens where they work, and sometimes don't even speak the language of their "host" country. They are often young, uneducated, penniless and starving; with no real alternatives.

Of course legalization has its libertarian advocates, like John Stossel: a Princeton-educated, emmy award-winning journalist from a prominent Jewish family of Chicago. No one is ever going to force him to do anything intimate against his will---he has all the money and power of a 1%-er.

Compare that with a typical prostitute: teenager, hispanic female, (illegal) immigrant, living on the street with no relatives, education, or job skills or savings account, and a limited ability to speak English. Beaten regularly to extract any "tip" given her by her Johns, and beaten again if she becomes to ill to pull a train on a given work-night.

edit on 24-7-2012 by tovenar because: (no reason given)

Actually most of the prostitutes I see walking around in any city are crack or heroine addicts. They spend all their money on crack rather than feeding themselves or housing themselves and when the money runs out they go to the easiest way to make a quick buck out there. Crack keeps them broke crack keeps them trickin dont pretend they are victims they do it because they want to and enjoy it. Please actually know what your talking about before posting.

I promised the video...... it got released at 11:00 EDT tonight, I just got home, still pretty much buzzing from the event, but here is the video....

ETA: Wifey is one of the cute blondes, but not gonna say which one, LOL...

Originally posted by Biliverdin

Originally posted by Dhimmie
How do you know it isn't about sex and power and control are used to achieve this. Without sex, it isn't rape so of course it is about sex to some degree.

I can understand your confusion, but sex is the means of expressing the power and control, or more simply, the weapon of choice in the perpetrators expression of their aggression. More often than not, the rapist does not ejaculate, no sexual gratification, or sexual release is even achieved, the gratification (and arousal) comes from the empowerment that comes from terrorising or having a person under your control, or as a means of inflicting violence against.

its 50% and not as you think more often than not

www.adn.com...

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

Where are the records that indicate this as being fact? As far as I understand it, that sort of recorded history would have only began with civilization. We've been "civilized" for thousands of years, I hardly call that modern.

Before that things were more natural and primal, but you know that propaganda existed even then. And after thousands of years enforcing certain things and ways those things and ways become instinct, and other things that were instinct become either repressed or changed completely.

Engimatic as usual.

This process is called instinct truncation.

People can see this process in action in domesticated dogs. Each breed having a different set of truncations, bringing out a differeing set of skills, body types, etc.

You are describing the process of humans being domesticated.

In this case, domestication as pets means commodification of basic functions.

www.jstor.org...

Not fully on the same subject, but tangent to it. Humanity shows as a whole a tendency to truncation of instincts some of which without any modification, are distilled and unsynthesized with complexity to deal with social complexity, and this is an environmentally exacerbated malfunction/dysfunction.

To fix this, people are fixing the wrong problem. But that's how it goes. People always prefer to fix the wrong problem. Its less threatening.

And I just AGREED with you....so don't argue with me.

Originally posted by Dhimmie
its 50% and not as you think more often than not

www.adn.com...

That's reasonable...BUT I had already, later in the thread corrected myself, in linking to a study that shows that although more often than not the rapist does not ejaculate during intercourse, they do tend to use masturbation to ejaculate over the victim, particularly in the face, so 50% is unsurprising given that context. So that 50% does not mean that ejaculation occurs during intercourse as a result of any sexual need being gratified, but is in actuality used as a means of further humiliating the victim.

This is a fascinating study investigating 'why' men visit prostitutes...and it isn't as obvious as it would at first appear.

prostitution.procon.org...

What I found particularly interesting is that a significant proportion of those who visit prostitutes regularly assume a passive position in the sex, and admit that this differs from the sex that they engage in with their regular partners in which they usually assume the dominant role. This suggests to me, that perhaps many men as dis-satisfied with more than the sex that they engage in with their partner, but that this is a manifestion of their frustration at being expected to be the dominant partner, both sexually, and socio-economically.

The study also shows that most of those who visit prostitutes are already in relationships, and/or, express that they are able to get sex without paying for it. They choose to have sex with a prostitute, not because of sexual need, but because of additional needs. And strangely enough, most do not define that need as being primarily sexual in nature.

Very interesting indeed.

reply to post by SibylofErythrae

They can band-aid things all they want, it wont solve anything they can change labels all they want it will just be the same old thing under a different label. And it of no surprise that as you said "instinct truncation" is the norm. In general humans are just animals that have been thought to do tricks for the treats of society, and what really bothers them they just happen to look the other way, or stick there heads in the sand, or as you said they pretend to fix something that has nothing to do with the subject at hand, and call it good. Not unlike sweeping the dirt under the carpet and calling the room clean. But in all specialization is a slow grind into extinction, but I am sure you know all this. So why bore you with details, even if the devil is in them.

And no doubt you used to think that I argued with you as a matter of habit. You off-course were wrong, and if you think agreeing with me will make me not argue with you, then that is just as equally unfounded.

reply to post by Biliverdin

The things they find that they need to do studies for confound me. Or maybe not, Not.

People need to keep # kinky and change things up once in a while, but ultimately it is a deliberate and conscious decision to stick to one person no matter how much you change things up and spice things up. Ultimately it is a decision, and a deliberate action on going about that decision. Just like visiting prostitutes is also a decision and and deliberate action of going about that. All that stuff that they need something that is missing in there lives so they look for it somewhere else, is true.

But its way past time that they started pretending and looking for more reasons on why that is, because what they most likely failed to mention is that one of the things they were looking for is another person even if the other one gave them everything they wanted and needed.

So no its nowhere near as simple as that, or is it.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
So no its nowhere near as simple as that, or is it.

Never, not ever. Which is why I always return to that saying almost as old as that oldest of professions. Know thyself.

As long as you're honest about who you are, no need to justify yourself to anyone.

Originally posted by Biliverdin

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
So no its nowhere near as simple as that, or is it.

Never, not ever. Which is why I always return to that saying almost as old as that oldest of professions. Know thyself.

As long as you're honest about who you are, no need to justify yourself to anyone.

Actually you know technically that whole quote is all wrong like, in error. Prostitution its not the oldest of professions, its the second oldest of professions I guess you can say. And only if you count professions to be the things that are done and came about in the first villages and cities even the first groups of nomads or cavemen, if not then It would not even be in the top ten of oldest things or professions.

But as the whole thing was more or less created and came about when people really started to congregate in large number of groups, such as in cities states and even huge villages, then even that its its still not the oldest or the first, after all it was just something that came second hand as an affirmation and add on to other things.

Those things being more basic and necessary needs such as food, and protection. ie hunter gatherers, farmers, tools of the trade, and off course war. So when you think of it like that, and add all that into the equation, then can you seriously say it was the oldest of professions? ..Sure there may be some people who may like sex a whole lot, but given the option of no food, no shelter, and being killed off by rival predators or groups, or getting laid. Then you really got to be thinking only with you junk to choose sex over all of the above.

And yet some still chose it, and our current civilization and world revolves around sex, you can see it everywhere no need the TV or the internet to point it out. But what does that say for civilization and humanity? You know other then the fact that it was made like that intentionally and people are bread like that intentionally. What did sibyl call it...oh ya.. "instinct truncation"

So in a way, ya choosing sex over even basic things is a survival trait that has been breed into people, males to a high regard, females to a lesser regard. And what does all that say? It says that things and humans are pretty dam obvious.

Wana know why "they" try to put every thing and every job and every category of profession out there and blend them and meld them into one bland statement and one thing. Do you know why people say, "well I already prostitute myself day in and day out working for the man in my job. So what is the difference between that and the actual thing?" Or "what is the difference between a prostitute and your lover if the prostitute is better at her or his job then your lover" What do those statements and mind-frames in peoples minds mean and what do they partake to?

Something to think about I suppose. And if you find out the subtle differences, OK maybe there not all that subtle. But still, I would love to hear about them, so post it or pm me about them, I may care to listen to them. Or not.

Oh and just so you know, everybody on a subconsciousness level or deeper level you can say. Well they all know themselves even if they say otherwise. that's why you have people say one thing, and do another. And why sometimes when people think and really want to do one thing, but when the moment comes. They just cant get themselves to get up and do that...It's because on a deeper level...They never really wanted to do that, they just thought they did, and just played along believing they did.

So ya if you know thyself, everybody else becomes pretty obvious. Even when you are deceiving yourself you can never quite deceive yourself. But even in that there is a lot of assumption, and you know you cant spell assumption without ass. SO really everything is what it is, and actions tell the real story of things, while words are mostly used to justify those stories.

There is no reason to justify yourself to anyone at all. But there may be more then a bunch of reasons why explaining yourself to somebody may be required, after all, if people don't say something even if its just about things in general or the things there about or into. Then it just becomes a guessing game, an assumption on things.

And for me at least reading this thread I think things are pretty clear on were most people stand on things. Exempt for a few vague ones who like to bandy and mix and match words. And attempt to justify things, and no its not getreadyalready because he is pretty clear on things and what he is all about, sh*t even on what his "friends" are all about. In fact that dude is giving way to much information, and really I don't want to know or care. But the vague ones...Well they know who they are..Right.

Know Thyself.

Anyways Biliverdin always interesting conversing with you.

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
reply to post by SibylofErythrae

 

And no doubt you used to think that I argued with you as a matter of habit. You off-course were wrong, and if you think agreeing with me will make me not argue with you, then that is just as equally unfounded.

Darn you. I baited the bear trap, and you went all philosophical about it.

Yes, truncation is a great way to stay alive and continue on as a specialized pet. Prostitution is a socialized form this truncation is taking on, and as with most of the forms of truncation it is a dead end. People breed themselves out.

Or use other's up and degrade them - the details do end up very interesting though. The very people who force the situation and use people up are usually the people who are most wanting / needing a sexual outlet that is interesting. But they then categorize the people who might have those skills as something that they have no respect for. Therein feeding their own problem, and making it entirely less likely for them to attract a long term mate that actually would have or want to have those proclivities or skills.

Planting the seeds of their own problems. Then fixing the wrong problem to fix the problem they created.

AND they think this is natural. Causing themselves stupid problems is natural apparently.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


I personally consider 'the oldest profession' as being no less of a phrase than 'Know Thyself'. It has very little basis in actuality, and if we are going to get technical, then perhaps we need to consider whether any training is involved, as with other trades and professions. But, we could be veering into the ridiculous if we go in that direction. Perhaps we could consider sex a service more than a profession, and given that in most cases the individual that directly provides that service has not received any reward for that service or even having been given any choice as to whether they engage in it, historically, then perhaps if anything is the oldest profession, in this context, it is pimping and slave trading, they are after all supply the service. But then, in that context, and if sex is the service, then wives perhaps are a provider of that service, as are husbands, to be fair, neither prostitution or marriage being an exclusive female domain. We can get awfully silly if we so choose, in short.

What seems to be apparent, is that sex is a tradeable commodity. Even chimpanzees engage in the sex trade, amongst themselves of course (although I am sure someone has considered whether there is a market for that amongst we humans). As the supposedly advanced species, we encourage women, and increasingly men, to consider themselves, their youth and bodies, as 'assets' with a pecuniary value. Massive amounts of revenue are generated from this obsession with our value based on appearances alone, I consider it a devolution, and like Sibyl, as a symptom of domestication.

Either way, as long as people can use sex to get what they want, it does, on the surface at least, provide an easy option to do so, because there will also be those that are willing to buy simply because it is there to be bought, and probably has since time immemorial. It is more about consumerism in general, and the manipulation of needs than it is about the commodity on offer. Tell people they want something, and they will want it, but as importantly, tell someone that the person next door has more than you, and they will want it even more. Sexual activity and promiscuity are defined by peer pressure and/or the norms and values of any social group.

Which brings me back to Knowing thyself. Too many people do what they think is expected of them, or what they think will help them fit in better, as opposed to what feels 'right' to them or makes them happy and whole. And I think the study that I linked to kind of supports that notion, there is a need by some men to conform to the norm, at both levels, both in their personal relationships, and in professional relationships. And similarly, we are finding that women consider themselves to be, first and foremost sexual objects, with a sell-by date by which to trade on that commodity, be that trade a temporal one, or one based on exclusive use in a marriage.

reply to post by SibylofErythrae

Or use other's up and degrade them - the details do end up very interesting though. The very people who force the situation and use people up are usually the people who are most wanting / needing a sexual outlet that is interesting. But they then categorize the people who might have those skills as something that they have no respect for. Therein feeding their own problem, and making it entirely less likely for them to attract a long term mate that actually would have or want to have those proclivities or skills.

I'm actually impressed at your view on this part of sex in general. Pretty observant and open-minded, except for a couple of quick points.

#1. Some people (even healthy people), like to be degraded and/or used. In fact, I am one of those people. Not all the time, but just for giggles every now and then. You'll find a lot of people that constantly find themselves in control of every situation, and are always looked to for advice, and always looked to for supervision, can get really turned on by being completely submissive every now and then. I am also very turned on by pleasing a woman, so being ordered/forced to do it is fun for me. At the same time, I also LOVE to completely defile a woman (as long as she likes it as well). I can play either role, and be very turned on by it, and I've met a lot of people that have similar tastes to me. I'm not talking about damaged people either. I'm talking about people that are very educated, successful, and respected. There are women I know that enjoy being degraded very, very much. It is a fantasy for them to be treated like and object and used up and forced to perform, and then afterwards they can go right back to being friends, and being in control of their lives as usual.

#2.
Not everyone is looking for a long-term mate.
Some people find long-term mates with similar tastes to their own.
Some people find long-term mates that are very understanding in letting them satisfy certain things outside of the marriage.

People who don't understand this stuff, just won't understand it, and that's fine, but they shouldn't be so quick to make assumptions and project their own opinions on to others (not that you are doing that). There are plenty of well-adjusted, normal people, that experiment in all kinds of fetishes, choose professions related to sex, and partake as consumers of those professions related to sex.

On the way home from Atlanta last night, I happened across an XM radio station from "Spice Entertainment." I'd never listened to it before, and they were talking about the Olympics when I first happened across it, and that caught my attention, but then they started talking about stripping, and making porn, and all kinds of stuff related to sex (including their own personal sex lives, keeping a change of clothes in the car, buying cheap sheets so they can be thrown away after a party, etc.). These girls were obviously very happy, very excited, making lots of money, and very in-control of their own lives. The DJ girl had a condo in NYC, and another in LA, and the girl she was interviewing was a porn star, but she had just gotten a record deal (I think "Cosmo" was her name?).

Anyway, the point is that even sex that some consider "degrading" is still enjoyable to many people, some actually desire those feelings, and it doesn't make them any less confident (quite the opposite), and it doesn't make them unhealthy, or weird, or anything else.

Sex is just sex. Once we can all get past the assumptions and "dirtiness" that has been programmed into us about sex, the sooner we can all be emotionally healthy.