U.N. Commission Calls for Legalizing Prostitution Worldwide

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Legalizing prostitution could not possibly make those issues any worse, and it is hoped that they will make them better.

I was addressing a particular point that spiramirabliss made, but since you make the claim, how?

Originally posted by Biliverdin

Originally posted by boncho
Can you explain why women have the oxytocin bonding process during labour and men have nothing similar? Or why men don't give birth, essentially why humans are not an asexual species?

What does that have to do with anything? How about you show me a study that shows that men are genetically pre-programmed to spread their seed? Women bond and are biologically encouraged to bond because our young cannot fend for themselves. That has nothing to do with creating the child in the first place, so I have really no idea where you're coming from with that angle

It's very simple. Oxytocin, something that bonds women to their children during childbirth is something women have. Just like women have estrogen and progesterone and it effects their psyche and decision making skills. Men do produce certain chemicals women do but in much smaller quantities.

And then you have men, and the effects their hormones have:

questionnaires at the end of each 4-week period while sexual activity and mood states were recorded by daily dairies and self-rating scales. In both groups there was a significant increase in scores in the Psychosexual Stimulation Scale of the SES (i.e. SES 2) following testosterone administration, but not with placebo. There were no changes in SES 3, which measures aspects of sexual interaction with the partner. In both groups there were no changes in frequency of sexual intercourse, masturbation, or penile erection on waking nor in any of the moods reported.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

It is not secret that women take Testosterone patches to increase sex drives. I believe the product was in clinical trials and has been sold already in many places throughout the world.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Okay I will concede, but with the caveat that while sex does serve an important social and belonging function, depending upon the society, it can equally be incredibly harmful to social cohesion, and highly devisive.

Originally posted by Biliverdin

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Legalizing prostitution could not possibly make those issues any worse, and it is hoped that they will make them better.

I was addressing a particular point that spiramirabliss made, but since you make the claim, how?

I think that has been discussed ad nauseum, and you haven't answered my question yet.

BUT, since we're here..... are you saying sexual attraction is not rooted at all in biology? It is purely intellectual in nature?

If you're saying that, then you are not going to be too popular in the homosexual discussion realm. They are arguing very vehemently about "nature" instead of "nurture."

But, I'll humor you and give a quick rundown of If Prostitution were legal.....

Let me preface by saying that I have heard just about every prosecuting attorney in my field of work, all the way up to the top of their departments saying they wish prostitution were legal. They also qualify their statement with the words, "but it will never happen, because of the religious element in the population." Even the prosecutors realize our prisons are full of the wrong people, and our cops are spending billions of hours and dollars chasing so-called criminals that are not hurting anybody except maybe themselves. Victimless crimes are really not crimes at all.

Now, after that preface, if we were to legalize prostitution, we could regulate the industry the same way we regulate medicine, chiropractic, massage, tattoos, etc.

1. Streetwalking, and "soliciting" would still be illegal.
2. "Legal" prostitution would be in establishments, that would require licensing by the state and local municipality, and requirements of licensure would be regular inspections, employment files readily available for every employee, environmental controls, tax returns, signage outside with posted hours, adequate security, processes and procedures outlined to limit infectious disease, etc.
3. The employees in the establishments would also have to be licensed, and that licensure would require semi-annual blood tests, proper photo identification on a displayed license, and also readily available for each girl, as well as proper knowledge of he processes and protocols for infectious disease and environmental controls. They would have to test, and take continuing education hours like any other licensed profession.

Just those two things alone, which are already common things in the massage industry, and the porn industry, would drastically improve the oversight and regulation and give authorities an inside look at what is going on. It would provide workers a safe and voluntary haven to make their living, and provide lawful customers a safe haven to spend their money, and the competition could put pressure to drive the illegal venues out of business.

The licensure and inspection fees would also fund an entity like the one I work for, who could investigate claims of unlicensed activity, and supplement the law enforcement efforts in those areas. More people looking into the seedy establishments means more chance of protecting the victims of forced sex, or human-trafficking.

Allowing lawful establishments also removes some of the taboo, and all of the risk of reporting risky behavior. Right now, if a man hires a prostitute, and he has a feeling she is a victim of something terrible, reporting it would put him at risk also. If the trade were legalized, the customers would be free to report problems, abuse, and trafficking without fear of being arrested. Also, if a man hires a prostitute, and she has unsavory hygiene practices, or suspected disease, then he could report that as well. Again, more people looking into this area is more protection for the would-be victims.

Allowing lawful practice of the trade also opens up the opportunity for women to advertise a little bit, be more discerning with their customers, and more open about their pricing, expectations, dos and don'ts. The way it is now, the women are afraid every customer is a vice officer, and so they are forced into back alleys and seedy hotels. Abortion used to be the same way. Abortion was legalized to protect women from seedy operations that were a necessity when it was illegal, why is prostitution any different?

That is just a brief snapshot, but one that I can assure you has been discussed at many levels of law enforcement, medical boards, and federal police task forces. The issue is a real issue, and the solution is a real solution, but it is being blocked by the religious do-gooders, just like abortion once was.

reply to post by boncho


I asked for confirmation that men are genetically programmed to 'spread their seed', not confirmation of the role of hormones. Good honest sex, where both parties are on the same level and enjoying themselves will make both people happy, that is obvious in itself. And sex drives differ from one person to the next. Some men want it more than some women, and vice versa, and yes, hormones do play a part in that. And, hormones of course play a part in our general sense of well being anyway, as anyone who has ever suffered a temporary inbalance will know...but where does any of that say that men are genetically programmed to 'spread their seed'? All that is telling me, is that people feel better if they have had sex. Well, yes, sex is pleasurable, and we are pre-programmed to enjoy and seek pleasure...but...that can mean just the one person for some, many for others, etc...no doubt we could also find a study that told us that bad sex or guilt ridden sex could make us unhappy...but I bet you can find nothing that states that men are genetically programmed to spread their seed, or certainly no less inclined to do so, figuratively, than women...

reply to post by Biliverdin

Legalising prostitution does nothing to target human sex trafficking or child prostitution.

If human trafficking is in fact a separate problem - then let's treat it like one and focus on that

The sole purpose of legalisation, given that in many countries it is legal for an individual to profit from the sale of their own body, is to allow others to legally run brothels and therefore profit from the sale of other people's bodies.

What do you recommend - we call it quits?

It bothers you that some people are making money off other people's bodies - I understand. It's going to continue as long as we have bodies - so - once we get done moralizing - what's the best solution?

Consenting adults - actual consenting adults - should be allowed to do what they want - legally

Otherwise we let it remain illegal - and we keep punishing the women while simultaneously allowing them to be completely vulnerable

Originally posted by Biliverdin
reply to post by Spiramirabilis

 

Okay I will concede, but with the caveat that while sex does serve an important social and belonging function, depending upon the society, it can equally be incredibly harmful to social cohesion, and highly devisive.

:-)

wow - that's never happened to me before

I'll concede something as well - sex sometimes can make a real mess of things

Originally posted by getreadyalready
BUT, since we're here..... are you saying sexual attraction is not rooted at all in biology? It is purely intellectual in nature?

If you're saying that, then you are not going to be too popular in the homosexual discussion realm. They are arguing very vehemently about "nature" instead of "nurture."

I apologise, I didn't see the question...

No I am not, not entirely. What I am saying is that you have a choice on whether to act upon that attraction. You are not compelled to do so.

And sexual preference is not is not the same as the act of sex. A man can be sexually attracted to men but he can if he so chooses not have sex with men, that would not mean that he is attracted to women. Silly!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
But, I'll humor you and give a quick rundown of If Prostitution were legal.....

Let me preface by saying that I have heard just about every prosecuting attorney in my field of work, all the way up to the top of their departments saying they wish prostitution were legal. They also qualify their statement with the words, "but it will never happen, because of the religious element in the population." Even the prosecutors realize our prisons are full of the wrong people, and our cops are spending billions of hours and dollars chasing so-called criminals that are not hurting anybody except maybe themselves. Victimless crimes are really not crimes at all.

Now, after that preface, if we were to legalize prostitution, we could regulate the industry the same way we regulate medicine, chiropractic, massage, tattoos, etc.

1. Streetwalking, and "soliciting" would still be illegal.
2. "Legal" prostitution would be in establishments, that would require licensing by the state and local municipality, and requirements of licensure would be regular inspections, employment files readily available for every employee, environmental controls, tax returns, signage outside with posted hours, adequate security, processes and procedures outlined to limit infectious disease, etc.
3. The employees in the establishments would also have to be licensed, and that licensure would require semi-annual blood tests, proper photo identification on a displayed license, and also readily available for each girl, as well as proper knowledge of he processes and protocols for infectious disease and environmental controls. They would have to test, and take continuing education hours like any other licensed profession.

Just those two things alone, which are already common things in the massage industry, and the porn industry, would drastically improve the oversight and regulation and give authorities an inside look at what is going on. It would provide workers a safe and voluntary haven to make their living, and provide lawful customers a safe haven to spend their money, and the competition could put pressure to drive the illegal venues out of business.

The licensure and inspection fees would also fund an entity like the one I work for, who could investigate claims of unlicensed activity, and supplement the law enforcement efforts in those areas. More people looking into the seedy establishments means more chance of protecting the victims of forced sex, or human-trafficking.

Allowing lawful establishments also removes some of the taboo, and all of the risk of reporting risky behavior. Right now, if a man hires a prostitute, and he has a feeling she is a victim of something terrible, reporting it would put him at risk also. If the trade were legalized, the customers would be free to report problems, abuse, and trafficking without fear of being arrested. Again, more people looking into this area is more protection for the would-be victims.

Allowing lawful practice of the trade also opens up the opportunity for women to advertise a little bit, be more discerning with their customers, and more open about their pricing, expectations, dos and don'ts. The way it is now, the women are afraid every customer is a vice officer, and so they are forced into back alleys and seedy hotels. Abortion used to be the same way. Abortion was legalized to protect women from seedy operations that were a necessity when it was illegal, why is prostitution any different?

That is just a brief snapshot, but one that I can assure you has been discussed at many levels of law enforcement, medical boards, and federal police task forces. The issue is a real issue, and the solution is a real solution, but it is being blocked by the religious do-gooders, just like abortion once was.

In the UK, soliciting is illegal. Prostituting yourself is not. Profiting from the proceeds of prostitution is illegal, therefore brothels are illegal. This, in my opinion, is by far the best solution already. While the brothels may provide regulation, who actually benefits from that regulation? Certainly not the sex workers themselves.

Wow what is with all the women and, would you want some sweaty man on top on you putting his stuff in your stuff ? If thats how you view sex it's no wonder you can't understand why anyone else might enjoy it and choose to have sex for money. Women make men pay for it all the time. It is an exchange even if there is no actual cash changing hands. Why is it so wrong to be honest about it and say for X amount of money I will give you Y? How is that any different in all the other money men spend trying to get laid. I hear girls all the time saying how they made the man in their life pay for shoes, their hair, their nails, their whatever. I think less of these girls than I would a prostitute because these poor guys have no idea what the going rate is going to be one minute to the next and no guarantee they will get anything in exchange. It happens all the time and society is ok with it. OR how many women look at how well a man can provide for them before dating or marriage. That seems to be ok too.

Sex is something we both want and need. We need human contact and for some people paying for it is the best or only option. I knew a guy in a wheelchair. Super nice guy but most women wont even look him in the eye. He still deserves human interaction and one way he could get it was to pay for it. He told me about paying for a girl just to talk to him and hang out because he was lonely not just horny.

I worked the 900 lines for a couple of years and I am not ashamed to say that. You would be amazed how many guys would call me back a couple times a week just to talk. I can count the times men have called me because the woman in their life was not interested in sex and instead of cheating they would call me or the number of guys who had a fetish nothing sick or too weird maybe he liked wearing womens undies (nothing wrong with that) and couldn't seem to find a woman who would understand it didn't make him gay or any less of a man just different. Most of these guys just wanted someone to listen to them. I didn't judge I didn't expect anything from them. Yes I got paid for it and they got what they were looking for. It was a fair exchange. No one caught anything, got arrested, or ruined their marriage.

When guys go to a strip joint the girls pay attention to them everything he says is interesting or funny. They are paying for the attention and interaction as much as they are paying to see girls strip. Guys will pay $20 for some dried up old chicken wings because some girl in a tight shirt and short shorts smiles at them and makes them feel special for a bit. No one is judging them. What is expected of them and what they are getting in exchange is clear.

Things are changing and more women are paying for these services as well. I wonder how it will change the attitude about these interactions/transactions?

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
It bothers you that some people are making money off other people's bodies - I understand. It's going to continue as long as we have bodies - so - once we get done moralizing - what's the best solution?

Consenting adults - actual consenting adults - should be allowed to do what they want - legally

Otherwise we let it remain illegal - and we keep punishing the women while simultaneously allowing them to be completely vulnerable

As mentioned above, while in the UK it is legal to prostitute yourself, and many do work independently from flats etc. That does nothing to diminish illegal sex trade, both in terms of soliciting, and those who profit from others. Those operating illegally, remain unprotected. All morality aside, if we were to completely legalise trade in sex then perhaps there would be some over-riding protection for the workers, but until that time, all that partial control does is legitimise some by further marginalising others.

On that note, I must go to bed...but thanks to all, it's been fun

Originally posted by Biliverdin

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
It bothers you that some people are making money off other people's bodies - I understand. It's going to continue as long as we have bodies - so - once we get done moralizing - what's the best solution?

Consenting adults - actual consenting adults - should be allowed to do what they want - legally

Otherwise we let it remain illegal - and we keep punishing the women while simultaneously allowing them to be completely vulnerable

As mentioned above, while in the UK it is legal to prostitute yourself, and many do work independently from flats etc. That does nothing to diminish illegal sex trade, both in terms of soliciting, and those who profit from others. Those operating illegally, remain unprotected. All morality aside, if we were to completely legalise trade in sex then perhaps there would be some over-riding protection for the workers, but until that time, all that partial control does is legitimise some by further marginalising others.

On that note, I must go to bed...but thanks to all, it's been fun

I was just about to suggest they unionize :-)

but - I'm in America - and that would turn this discussion into something else entirely

it has been fun - later Biliverdin

reply to post by Ladysophiaofsandoz


I agree, waste of money.

reply to post by Stormdancer777

One day you or your daughter may not have a choice, One day they may force your child into prostitution,

As long as prohibition of prostitution exists this is a very real concern. Far less of a concern when prostitution is returned to the free and open market where it belongs. Forget the so called TPTB, because of prohibition nasty pimps exist that do force women and young girls into prostitution now, today, at this very moment.

James Grady III, LA Pimp, Allegedly Forced Captive Teen To Become A Prostitute

Human Trafficking of American Girls: A Repetitive Cycle By: Kristen Bailey ’12

The U.S. Department of Justice estimates that, “293,000 American youth are currently at risk of becoming victims of commercial sexual exploitation” (USDJ). Teenage girls are lured into illegal and forced prostitution at young ages by men and boys known as “pimps” who use the girls’ vulnerable pasts to coerce them into “the life.” The pimp targets at-risk American teenagers with histories of trauma and through a specific cycle, turns a young girl into a commodity to be bought and sold, solely for his selfish gain. The cycle includes recruitment, retention, intimidation and addiction, running away, and returning to the pimp. The only way for American domestic human trafficking to end is through awareness and outreach to at-risk teenagers before they are targeted in their own neighborhoods by traffickers.

Pimp gets 50 years at dramatic hearing

The young woman with a sweet face walked to the lectern, past the man who had forced her to become a prostitute at age 12.

She paused, took a breath and explained to the federal judge how it felt to have Datqunn Sawyer take brutal and complete control of her, brand her with a tattoo and force her to "walk a track" as a child prostitute.

Prohibition gives crime an industry. This is demonstrably so.

reply to post by Ladysophiaofsandoz


Dam, I keep trying, but I can only give you one star.


GREAT POST!

Originally posted by Ladysophiaofsandoz

When guys go to a strip joint the girls pay attention to them everything he says is interesting or funny. They are paying for the attention and interaction as much as they are paying to see girls strip. Guys will pay $20 for some dried up old chicken wings because some girl in a tight shirt and short shorts smiles at them and makes them feel special for a bit. No one is judging them. What is expected of them and what they are getting in exchange is clear.

I worked in Strip Clubs, Bartending. I can give you the real story. 7/8 of the Woman are on Drugs. Most of the Woman, will go the extra mile if Drugs are involved. If they are not on drugs, the rest are drinking, to numb themselves. EVERY woman, who is working, is considered a piece of "meat", by the men who are patronizing the place. I saw women get arrested, because they left their children, unsupervised, or left them in conditions, that CWS, had no choice, but to arrest the mother, at the Club. This happened 2 times, in one week, to 2 different women. And yes, this happens in the World daily, to woman who dont "strip" but its common, in the strip clubs. Legal or Illegal, woman are going to sell themselves, for money. Legalizing it, will NEVER empower women. Men dont care if its Legal or Not. Men dont respect Prostitutes, even with the nicer title............

We live in a society where these women are looked down on. Do you suppose that might have a lot to do with how men view them. I agree stripping does seem to attract a lot of damaged people both as workers and patrons. We have made sex something dirty taught people to be ashamed it's no wonder they act the way they do. Did you consider that the drug use might be the cause and not the symptom? Addicts are willing to trade ANYTHING for a fix. I am sure the quick and plentiful cash provide by stripping attracts a lot of addicts. Damaged girls fall into these professions because they don't think they deserve any thing better for themselves. What if it wasn't seen as immoral, dirty or wrong? I wonder what jobs they would seek out then.Bad parenting is bad parenting is it because they are strippers or addicts? What came first the chicken or the egg?

Well seems this thread has taken off.

But it may be better to keep things simple as it seems to be getting all over the place. Some UN commission calls for legalizing prostitution worldwide, which again is the subject.

In all I just think getting the UN or any government much less the ones who want a one world control scheme which is mostly just another way of keeping $$$ coming in to them, as that seems the only real thing that they are good at. Well it is just basically switching one pimp for another in fact it will be like switching it for a bureaucratic process of pimping.

And to be true, on the subject of prostitution it gets hepatic, and not only because that lots if not most are forced into it, and if given a chance would not choose it. But because if it were legal and perfectly safe and perfectly all legal and not black marked and all that bad things associated with it. Well then there will be people who would be willing to sell there body's off to anybody for the cash and would rather sleep around with any number of people for the $$$, then do something else. So ya that is a real viable thing, which in a way is the whole reason why its kept under wraps in the first place.

It's really not all that hard to see that, and really for some it would be not that big of a deal, and I see that people may be getting that little unpleasant fact. Really in some respects there are two types of people out there, and some go to exact opposite extremeness of each-other, really if looked at from some terms there are two and more different species of humans walking around who all think they are the same and all want the same things. When clearly that is not the case, there is a myriad of varied people out there with a myriad of different wants and things that they would be willing to do and want. And some are at extreme odds against some things so much so that they might as well just be from a different planet and not even know it.

So ya in short there will be plenty of people both male and female that will if given the change prostitute themselves, if nothing else but the reason that they like sex and money, and for some that is what they call love. And for another it may be something else, the definitions on that word 'love" is nowhere near as concrete as people think. That is something that people don't seem to understand. I know why, and can sort of understand why they are like that, and I am of the complete opposite of them and this whole thing, so really I do not think it is that hard for you all to understand that fact. As in all you all are much more closer in similarities to each other then I am to anybody. But really its that simple, and that complicated.

So ya in a way legalizing prostitution will diminish the violence inherent in it, and regulating it will make it more easily handled. But it would not do anything but put a little more power into the hands of those who are doing it and off-course the pimps may have to change labels. But seeing that with the advent of technology and the internet most prostitutes, seem to have become there own pimps.

Well then in a way by regulating it the government is trying to cut in on the piece of the pie, so once again just in the end it leads to more problems, different kind of problems then the ones were arguing about today in this thread, but problems none the less. The whole thing is a hornets nest, there are very good reasons why this whole thing is kept under heavy duty spells to keep the people from really seeing it as it is.

Its one big headache for sure, but the criminal aspect and the profiting off it or people who do not want to be prostitutes needs to be ended eventual and we should work towards that, and those who have no other options but this should be given other outlets and options other then being sex workers. But it is in no way as simple as that.

reply to post by Ladysophiaofsandoz


You would be surprised actually. Many Girls came with some sort of baggage. The Majority, coming in to the Strip Clubs, were not hooked on the drugs, before they started dancing. After? Thats a whole different story. Yes, society has its hangups on the sex Industry. That hasnt stopped the Sex Industry from becoming very rich though, legally already. Guess the biggest thing is this. Do Woman want men to respect the profession, do they want men to respect them as Prostitututes, or do they just want the legalizing of it? I dont think men are going to EVER respect women, if they are in this field of work. Thats not the reason they are showing up, to a brothel. I know this for a fact, men find women like this cheap, and disposible. Second class citizens,get better treatment. Thats coming from what Ive seen......

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

Well I'll tell you what, I would "love" her enough to get her out of the business of selling her body.

Would you expect me to "love" my daughter enough to get her out of the business of selling her body as a housekeeper too?

OH please, there is a big difference between prostitution and house cleaning, give me a break.

If you are saying it wouldn't matter, then that's sad.

edit on 043131p://bWednesday2012 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)

And what you need to understand is that for some NO there is not that big of a difference between prostitution and house cleaning, and would chose it over housecleaning or another job if they were given the choice.

I do not believe getreadyalready was joking when he said that he would do it in a heart beat, he is merely the more outspoken and more real on what his needs and wants are then others. But nor do I think the ladies he was quoting in another post were joking either when they said they would do it in a heart beat to, if the money was right. They merely just have different way on going about it, him by more direct routes, them by more indirect means.

So ya! Sometimes things are exactly as they seem.

reply to post by Biliverdin

I asked for confirmation that men are genetically programmed to 'spread their seed', not confirmation of the role of hormones.

Because hormones has nothing to do with genetics...

...but where does any of that say that men are genetically programmed to 'spread their seed'?

Without testosterone men would not have the sex drive they have. If you introduce testosterone into a female's system their sexual behaviour will change.

The hormones produced are from gene expression and they make us develop into what we are. Not to say that environmental impact has no effect, but it is the genes in us that determine the original mould we come from.

Research article: Evolution and the psychology of intergroup conflict: the male warrior hypothesis
Phil. Trans. R. Soc. B March 5, 2012 367 1589 670-679; 1471-2970

rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org...

Wars, brawls, defense budgets, riots: All of these aggressive male by-products are genetically rooted in men's drive to win as many mates as possible, according to British scientists. A study published this week blames the world's conflicts on this male "tribal" attitude, saying it "might not be functional in modern times and [is] often counterproductive," Global Post reports via the Telegraph.

www.newser.com...

And in mice:



www.crossdreamers.com...