U.N. Commission Calls for Legalizing Prostitution Worldwide

reply to post by SibylofErythrae

So long as there is a market for it, it won't go away.

Which is really not the same thing as saying it will never go away if you think about it.

I guess you're right. Between the emasculation of men through prescription drugs, chemicals in the food and water, political correctness, and pop culture, and with the fertility of men in the western world continually declining, and with more and more families choosing NOT to have kids, and those that do want kids having trouble conceiving and opting for In-vitro, and women opting for c-sections instead of natural births, so they can get a little nip and tuck at the same time, I suppose the market for it will eventually go away.

I've never seen more men in my life changing diapers, waiting patiently outside stores with the babies while the wife shops, changing diapers, doting on their significant others, and apologizing at every hint of saying or doing something inappropriate.

The way things are going, there will be more of a need for male prostitutes than female ones, because those women that actually enjoy sex are probably going to have a harder and harder time finding men that can borrow their balls from their mother's purse long enough to take some viagra and satisfy a woman anyway.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by SibylofErythrae

 

Again please SHOW Me this information..

You've provided nothing put opinion. You make declarative statements and then when asked to provide proof of them, you deflect with other information.

I ask you again, please SHOW me the problems that come along with legalization of prostitution, show me how the Netherlands are reversing this cultural norm in their society.

Show me where it states that the current generation is not on par with the current laws in that nation.

I don't want more conjecture, I want cold hard facts to support your argument.

~Tenth

I actually have given you a cold hard fact.

No cultures that have embraced this model continue to exist.

There really isn't any fact colder and harder than that.

reply to post by SibylofErythrae

You are arguing against someone who is trying to stop you dummies from doing something immensely stupid, because most of you dorks can't afford the sex you're getting right now if it is commodified. That you don't recognize that is Deeply Dorky.

I am arguing in defense of liberty as I always do, and in this thread, as is very, very, very often the case when researching freedom versus prohibition, I posted research that demonstrated that rape and STD's decrease in areas where prostitution is not prohibited. You continue to refuse to speak directly to those facts and continue to rely on logical fallacy to justify calling me a dork.

reply to post by Biliverdin

certainly there is no biological basis for arguing that it fulfills any 'need'.

I'm pretty sure sex fulfills the pretty basic need for procreation. Without it there will be no one to argue with you.

Prostitution of course does not satisfy any biological need, and I never said it did. I think you have taken this little war of words so far off course that I'm not even sure what we are arguing about any longer? I think it started with me stating that men don't cheat because their women are inadequate, they cheat because they are hard-wired to be desirous of all viable females. I stand by that, and you have provided nothing to the contrary.

reply to post by SibylofErythrae

No cultures that have embraced this model continue to exist.

which cultures?

Originally posted by SibylofErythrae
So long as there is a market for it, it won't go away.

Which is really not the same thing as saying it will never go away if you think about it.

I don't think so. It's been around through recorded history. If it was going to go away it would have by now. The market is ALWAYS going to be there and I ascribe to what Carlin said. "Selling is legal. Sex is legal. Why isn't selling sex legal?" The problem is the disease, drugs(often forced) and abuse of the sex workers that goes along with the trade. I've never used a prostitute but I think that if that's a woman's choice s/he should be able to do it in the safest environment possible.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by SibylofErythrae

 

So long as there is a market for it, it won't go away.

Which is really not the same thing as saying it will never go away if you think about it.

I guess you're right. Between the emasculation of men through prescription drugs, chemicals in the food and water, political correctness, and pop culture, and with the fertility of men in the western world continually declining, and with more and more families choosing NOT to have kids, and those that do want kids having trouble conceiving and opting for In-vitro, and women opting for c-sections instead of natural births, so they can get a little nip and tuck at the same time, I suppose the market for it will eventually go away.

I've never seen more men in my life changing diapers, waiting patiently outside stores with the babies while the wife shops, changing diapers, doting on their significant others, and apologizing at every hint of saying or doing something inappropriate.

The way things are going, there will be more of a need for male prostitutes than female ones, because those women that actually enjoy sex are probably going to have a harder and harder time finding men that can borrow their balls from their mother's purse long enough to take some viagra and satisfy a woman anyway.

And there we have it! Men taking an interest in their off spring is UNMANLY.

Of course, the cultures that embrace your vision are the same ones where guys change diapers.

That you hate the cultures that spawn the very thing you claim to want?

That your argument here has been about empowerment, but when women are empowered you are showing that this is deeply disturbing to your vision of masculinity?

Originally posted by SibylofErythrae

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by SibylofErythrae

 

Again please SHOW Me this information..

You've provided nothing put opinion. You make declarative statements and then when asked to provide proof of them, you deflect with other information.

I ask you again, please SHOW me the problems that come along with legalization of prostitution, show me how the Netherlands are reversing this cultural norm in their society.

Show me where it states that the current generation is not on par with the current laws in that nation.

I don't want more conjecture, I want cold hard facts to support your argument.

~Tenth

I actually have given you a cold hard fact.

No cultures that have embraced this model continue to exist.

There really isn't any fact colder and harder than that.

India, Japan, China, all have fairly open views of sexuality, with multiple partners being rather common, and they all exist. Muslim tradition provides for multiple wives, and also for other avenues of "fun" that I don't even endorse, such as the notion that "women are for babies, men are for fun" which is an extremely common meme.

It is only the repressive Western Culture that has trouble with civility and sexuality co-existing.

reply to post by SibylofErythrae


Again more deflection.

If you want to make declarative statements and then not provide the proof when asked, then please don't jump into a conversation with people. It's really unbecoming and a giant waste of everybody's time.

If I wanted your opinion, as you have shared it, I would have asked. I wanted facts to back up your statements so that I may decide if you are just talking for the sake of talking, or whether you actually know what you are talking about.

I don't care what your opinion of it is, I don't care what your beliefs are, I care what the facts dictate regarding the situation. And there were factors FAR more pressing with nations who have fell than prostitution.

I'll add to my list of questions, please provide me with one civilization that was destroyed due to prostitution.

You have the right to your own opinions, not your own facts.

~Tenth

reply to post by intrepid

I've never used a prostitute but I think that if that's a woman's choice s/he should be able to do it in the safest environment possible.

Which is more than enough reason to legalize it - even if that was the only reason. A safer environment - even if not completely safe - would be preferable

An end to women being forced into it against their will - and no more children (including boys) in it at all - hopefully

reply to post by SibylofErythrae


There is a huge difference between empowerment and emasculation.

I have no problem with good fathers, and I have no problem sharing responsibilities with my wife, but I do get pretty disgusted at the emasculated men just standing by without a shred of masculinity left in their loins.

And yes, the term "masculine" had a specific definition, and it is becoming less and less common in society, and the people that are going to miss us masculine men the most...... are women.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by SibylofErythrae

 

Again more deflection.

If you want to make declarative statements and then not provide the proof when asked, then please don't jump into a conversation with people. It's really unbecoming and a giant waste of everybody's time.

If I wanted your opinion, as you have shared it, I would have asked. I wanted facts to back up your statements so that I may decide if you are just talking for the sake of talking, or whether you actually know what you are talking about.

I don't care what your opinion of it is, I don't care what your beliefs are, I care what the facts dictate regarding the situation. And there were factors FAR more pressing with nations who have fell than prostitution.

I'll add to my list of questions, please provide me with one civilization that was destroyed due to prostitution.

You have the right to your own opinions, not your own facts.

~Tenth

I'll see what I can do.

Of course, you are asking for facts as a deflection from actually having to address what I'm saying. I'll dig up a few cultural models that used to exist for you. Most of the free-love ones have been replaced by the conquest and high fertility cultures that have not embraced your ideas in any way. That should be obvious to you with the merest purusal of modern history. Since it isn't, I'll find some specific examples for you.

You've provided no statistics either, and opinions which are easily countered with long term thinking and the ability to look at history. But all the same, Netherlands and the like have been making changes to these laws and some of the statistics attributed to legislation are casual and not causative. All the same I'll see if I can pull some for you. I'll also pull their fertility data, so that you can see what the long term consequences look like.

Now I understand,

Who in their right mind would trust the UN of all organization to regulate the sex trade, and why are they getting involved?

Who is Kathryn Bolkovac

en.wikipedia.org...

Kathryn Bolkovac is an American former police investigator from Nebraska. She worked as a U.N. International Police Force monitor.

Originally hired by the U.S. company DynCorp in the framework of a U.N.-related contract, she filed a lawsuit[1] in Great Britain against DynCorp for unfair dismissal due to a protected disclosure (whistleblowing), and on 2 August 2002 the tribunal unanimously found in her favor.[2] DynCorp had a $15 million contract to hire and train police officers for duty in Bosnia at the time she reported such officers were paying for prostitutes and participating in sex-trafficking.[3] Many of these were forced to resign under suspicion of illegal activity, but none have been prosecuted, as they also enjoy immunity from prosecution in Bosnia.[4][5]

Bolkovac's story was made into a film, The Whistleblower, released in 2011. Following a film screening of "The Whistleblower," UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon opened a panel discussion on sexual exploitation and abuse in conflict and post-conflict situations [6]. The filmmaker and senior UN officials addressed issues raised in the film, including human trafficking and forced prostitution as well as the Organization's effort to combat sexual exploitation of women and children.

Bosnia: The United Nations, human trafficking and prostitution

There is mounting evidence that the United Nations has carried out a cover-up of the role played by its personnel in human trafficking and prostitution in Bosnia—a trade that has grown astronomically since the establishment of the Western protectorate seven years ago.

An American woman who served with the International Police Task Force (IPTF) in Bosnia recently won a case of unfair dismissal against a US State Department sub-contractor, after she was sacked for reporting an alleged prostitution racket involving other serving officers.

“When I started collecting evidence from the victims of sex-trafficking, it was clear that a number of UN officers were involved from several different countries, including quite a few from Britain,” she said. “I was shocked, appalled and disgusted. They were supposed to be over there to help, but they were committing crimes themselves. But when I told the supervisors they didn’t want to know.”

Exposing Injustices, the Real-Life Kind
www.nytimes.com...

the new film “The Whistleblower,” opening Friday. It follows Ms. Bolkovac’s real-life assignment as a United Nations peacekeeper in Bosnia in the 1990s, a job that exposed her to a world of international workers complicit in and in many cases fostering the international trade of young women for sex. Ms. Bolkovac’s investigation led to her firing.

“In real life there were girls doing this as young as 8 years old.”

the response by a high agency commander in the film is: “Those girls are whores of war. It happens.”

Originally posted by getreadyalready

Originally posted by SibylofErythrae

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by SibylofErythrae

 

Again please SHOW Me this information..

You've provided nothing put opinion. You make declarative statements and then when asked to provide proof of them, you deflect with other information.

I ask you again, please SHOW me the problems that come along with legalization of prostitution, show me how the Netherlands are reversing this cultural norm in their society.

Show me where it states that the current generation is not on par with the current laws in that nation.

I don't want more conjecture, I want cold hard facts to support your argument.

~Tenth

I actually have given you a cold hard fact.

No cultures that have embraced this model continue to exist.

There really isn't any fact colder and harder than that.

India, Japan, China, all have fairly open views of sexuality, with multiple partners being rather common, and they all exist. Muslim tradition provides for multiple wives, and also for other avenues of "fun" that I don't even endorse, such as the notion that "women are for babies, men are for fun" which is an extremely common meme.

It is only the repressive Western Culture that has trouble with civility and sexuality co-existing.

Japan has a serious problem with child prostitution. The "multiple partners" has not replaced the familial model, because the familial model takes precedence. Cultural mandate trumps individual mandate in Asian cultures, making it not comparable to the individual model in Western society. You're example actually proves part of what I'm saying about cultural mandate.

Further, prostitution in Japan is not a lovely thing. I suggest you watch some documentaries with interviews of women who've worked in there in that capacity. The accpetance certainly hasn't removed the criminal or mafia aspects of the industry.

In the Muslim cultures where men have multiple wives, there is also a problem with disappearing women. The interesting effect this is having in those cultures is exactly one of the things I'm trying to point out to you guys. There are fewer women to go around. This leaves more men unable to marry or find a partner. Creating a market for sex with what is available - sex with boys and girls who are sold into it. Some of these cultures "scholars" have started to notice a problem where they were regulating that men couldn't marry without meeting certain criteria. This has exacerbated the problem.

In China, men are purchasing group wives in areas where there aren't enough women. Furthering the trend to commodifying sex and an INCREASE in illegal human trafficking.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Yes. They create the atmosphere that makes these problems happen and then claim that the consequences that they created are just natural and what can they do about it?

reply to post by SibylofErythrae

I'll see what I can do.

Why don't you start with the easy. You've made assertions about the Netherlands now here is a very brief study, to brief probably, attempting to look at both sides of the issue, but at least it is a study and not just reification.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by SibylofErythrae

 

There is a huge difference between empowerment and emasculation.

I have no problem with good fathers, and I have no problem sharing responsibilities with my wife, but I do get pretty disgusted at the emasculated men just standing by without a shred of masculinity left in their loins.

And yes, the term "masculine" had a specific definition, and it is becoming less and less common in society, and the people that are going to miss us masculine men the most...... are women.

If some of what you posted is your version of masculity I'm not overly impressed. And you may rest assured, I'm highly attracted to Masculine men.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Biliverdin

 

certainly there is no biological basis for arguing that it fulfills any 'need'.

I'm pretty sure sex fulfills the pretty basic need for procreation. Without it there will be no one to argue with you.

Prostitution of course does not satisfy any biological need, and I never said it did. I think you have taken this little war of words so far off course that I'm not even sure what we are arguing about any longer? I think it started with me stating that men don't cheat because their women are inadequate, they cheat because they are hard-wired to be desirous of all viable females. I stand by that, and you have provided nothing to the contrary.

You are consistently spouting the same twaddle and twisting your posts in an attempt to obscure that fact. Are you being deliberately obtuse? I have made no mention of infidelity...and my reference to 'need' was about sex in general, not procreation. Besides you do not need to procreate, you choose to. Or most of at least normal intelligence and above are able to do so. The species may need to reproduce in order to sustain itself, but as a species we have the capacity to make a choice as an individual to do so or not to do so. You cheat because you lack the self-control to do otherwise, I would presume, no need involved, no hard wiring, except that that seems to make you inclined to fail to take responsibility for your actions. Perhaps lying and deceit are hard wired? I'd be willing to accept that, but there is certainly nothing, scientifically or behavouristically, to support the notion that human males are driven to inseminate as many females as possible, desirous or otherwise. I have no issue with people having multiple partners, or no partners for that matter, that is a matter of choice and not the point I was arguing. You 'want' to have sex, you do not 'need' to have sex. You 'want' to have multiple partners, you do not 'need' to have multiple partners. No hardwiring, though as I have already stated, there is some social conditioning, or soft ware involved...if promiscuity or sexual liberality is the aspirational model, then you may 'need' to prove yourself to your peers in order to feel accepted. And acceptance by your peers or social group is, I admit, a hard wired need.

reply to post by SibylofErythrae

If some of what you posted is your version of masculity I'm not overly impressed. And you may rest assured, I'm highly attracted to Masculine men.

This thread is kind of one-dimensional, and my views on sexuality are only a very small part of my make-up. This discussion is in the context of a single topic, on an anonymous forum, with hundreds of different view points, in a point-counterpoint format.

Surely you realize the people you are conversing with are immensely more complicated and well-rounded than what you are seeing in the context of any singular topic on ATS?

In other words....... you know you want me.

reply to post by Biliverdin


My original comment that started your so-called "twaddle" was likely not even a reply to you, but a reply to someone else talking about prostitution breaking up families. You have taken this particular little slice of the discussion WAY out of proportion.

BUT, since we're here..... are you saying sexual attraction is not rooted at all in biology? It is purely intellectual in nature?

ETA:
If you're saying that, then you are not going to be too popular in the homosexual discussion realm. They are arguing very vehemently about "nature" instead of "nurture."