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Leading edge Neuroscience suggests predisposition to crime/mental illness - Shooter studying himself

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posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by Evildead
I think HE WAS studying himself. Some psychopaths realize that their thoughts aren't normal and are constantly fighting them. In some cases of extreme back and forth with let's say, talking yourself out of doing something evil, eventually a dual personality will develop or the whole "voices in my head" scenario will manifest.

I suspect he had evil thoughts since his early teens causing him to feel different from normal kids which may partially explain why he was somewhat withdrawn. Of coarse he fought those feelings and tried to be "normal" by immersing himself in homework and his studies, and being a camp councillor for kids for 6 weeks, and other things "normal" people would do. Even though he tried to be normal those evil thoughts still tormented him.

He should've spoke up and asked for help but then again he may have been too ashamed and thought he could help himself by studying mental disorders , self diagnose and self medicate. That could explain why he was on 100mg. of Vicodin the night of the massacre.

A gun dealer in San Diego (where he's from) said Holmes came into his shop 2X a year ago to look at guns. He never bought any at that time but it shows that he was already thinking or planning his deadly deed out a year ago and not just 4 months ago as the media is reporting.

Yup. He was studying his psychotic disorder, probably trying to control it on his own instead of seeking professional help. Too little too late. The evil in him took over. Perhaps after taking that last class and hearing that his mental disorder was in his DNA he may have lost hope and just stopped fighting it.

I don't think the defense can prove he was insane... I don't think he is insane. He diabolically prepared for his rampage to take place during the first showing of The Dark Knight Rises. He may have even related the movie title to the darkness within himself finally rising?

Intelligent, yes. Disturbed, yes. He will and should get the death sentence.
edit on 7/23/12 by Evildead because: (no reason given)


All through your post I was in agreement and with the final sentence you have passed a sentence.
Talk about duality in the extreme.
You shocked me.
First you understand how it could have happened from a completely logical stand point
Oh well....let's kill him anyway.
Wow
I'm sure glad it wont be you in control of any of the big decisions that could effect me.




posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:37 PM
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reply to post by KillerQueen
 


careful KQ
you are about to fall for nihilistic tripe
it's a conspiracy not many CT's even know about

this is why you'll usually see me "trolling" the debunkers and pseudoscientist debunker crowd

they are followers of the materialist-nihilist paradigm otherwise known as Positivism 1.0

since they can't dissect a soul or see it with their gizmos it a priori does not,cannot exist
according to them we are merely chemical reactions/bundles of reflexes

or as they used to say, quoting from the hegelian dialectic:

" merely matter in motion"

this belief system keeps getting knocked down and keeps sneakily popping up again in a new disguise
they are as fanatical a cult as any fundamentalist/zealot
and just as dangerous.

and it's not even real science
just a [polished up to look scientific
set of rules of thumb

just like skinners so called school of psychology
was the same deal for the old carrot and the stick system

this is the hidden cult of eugenicists and of fascism
and it is rapidly overtaking the scientific community

maybe that's why holmes dropped out of his classes.


maybe he learned too much

i just happened to read your second link the other day
it was linked to here on the secret sun blog [see second link in extext of updates below]
secretsun.blogspot.com...

funny thing is the author has been updating that post
where as he at 1st was critical of CT's not waiting but immediately
jumping on the mk-ultra bandwagon the updates are pretty interesting as the author seems to be inclining towards mind control


UPDATE: Video has emerged of Holmes from a science fair. Given that his obsessions dovetailed eerily with the plot of Inception, it's very much worth a look. Click here.www.thedailybeast.com...

UPDATE: There is a much larger conspiracy at work in this case. It's one I've been aware of for several years now and has potentially devastating effects for all of us. It's one that the Alex Joneses of the world will never talk about, either. Click here.www.orthodoxytoday.org...



also note that much is made about his science background and such
sorta hinting it may be responsible for his recent actions

this is the old "he went crazy from reading so many books" trope

jedism mentions the above referenced conspiracy as the destruction of consciousness
that is the goal of all true sith
edit on 23-7-2012 by DerepentLEstranger because: added edit and comment



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by XeroOne John von Neumann, Alan Turing, Norbert Wiener, and a good few others explored the idea that our brains simply process and repeat information, and our decisions are heavily influenced (if not determined) by this. If I remember correctly, Turing took the view that our brains are merely Baynesian logic systems.


Okay...so obviously one could surmise that our violence saturated culture is having a negative effect on our meaty computers (brains)? Making those most exposed to and with a natural predisposition to violence (say young men ages 15 to 30) more likely to react that way?



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by AussieAmandaC
A most disturbing initial read really....


I don't get this comment. Other diseases show a genetic link, why not mental illness?


Do they think they have found the new weapon for the next witch hunt?, would be a more appropriate question....

Again


My mother displayed very erratic behavior my whole life long. She would show ridiculous amounts of affection, then snap and beat the tar out of you for something minute.

I realized as I was raising my own children some similar patterns and beat foot for help. Turns out I was diagnosed as bi-polar and also suffering from PTSD for things my own mother had done to me. I wanted to break the pattern that was all to apparent.

Don't be to hasty on judging this all. We have no idea what his family history is, or if anybody else in his family suffered from mental illness.

Perhaps he suffered a severe blow to his head at some point.

Investigating what makes some people tick can't be all that bad if it forestalls a tragedy like this.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:55 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


Of course decisions are made as after a biochemical firing.

But the philosophers along with myself are simply saying this is the hardware firing, the cpu crunching data. A small decision you made can be affected by something small in the past and it can weigh into your decision. Your sub-conscious would be influencing your conscious decision.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:58 PM
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Originally posted by KillerQueen

Originally posted by XeroOne John von Neumann, Alan Turing, Norbert Wiener, and a good few others explored the idea that our brains simply process and repeat information, and our decisions are heavily influenced (if not determined) by this. If I remember correctly, Turing took the view that our brains are merely Baynesian logic systems.


Okay...so obviously one could surmise that our violence saturated culture is having a negative effect on our meaty computers (brains)? Making those most exposed to and with a natural predisposition to violence (say young men ages 15 to 30) more likely to react that way?

But who's to say the effects of a violence-saturated culture are negative? That would be a subjective view.

What makes young men more predisposed to influence? In a sense, yes in general they'd be more heavily influenced and conditioned if everything around them - music, video games, films, the Internet - were all promoting violence. It takes far more than a film to achieve this.

Advertisements are even more damaging, because we're exposed to them constantly in numerous forms, and they portray a common lifestyle that's always unachievable to the majority. The result is we're constantly made to feel inadequate, and with a need to keep buying and consuming to reach aspects of a lifestyle that's always out of reach. We're not even aware of this most the time. This is how the rest of us get conditioned.

Information is a powerful thing.
edit on 23-7-2012 by XeroOne because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:58 PM
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reply to post by AussieAmandaC
 


He murdered a 6 year old girl and 11 other innocent people AND shot 59 more by executing a plan that he arranged over 4 months or longer. Yes. He should die.

For shooting a 6 year old girl in the face alone YES he should die.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by Sulie

Originally posted by AussieAmandaC
A most disturbing initial read really....


I don't get this comment. Other diseases show a genetic link, why not mental illness?


Do they think they have found the new weapon for the next witch hunt?, would be a more appropriate question....

Again


My mother displayed very erratic behavior my whole life long. She would show ridiculous amounts of affection, then snap and beat the tar out of you for something minute.

I realized as I was raising my own children some similar patterns and beat foot for help. Turns out I was diagnosed as bi-polar and also suffering from PTSD for things my own mother had done to me. I wanted to break the pattern that was all to apparent.

Don't be to hasty on judging this all. We have no idea what his family history is, or if anybody else in his family suffered from mental illness.

Perhaps he suffered a severe blow to his head at some point.

Investigating what makes some people tick can't be all that bad if it forestalls a tragedy like this.



Because I don't think the mental illnesses of our time have been properly diagnosed ever, hence the reason they keep trying to map it.
They also tell us that cancer is genetic, but how have adopted children taken on the same diseases then in those families?
And before they (lovely scientists) quantify it and package it for us and tell us how we feel, the leaches who use the scientists, may very well use that research to bring in finer control of our species, or indications of future transgressions, then it is a concern. Minority report could potentially be a scenario, if it's not already being used somewhat.

The rest you wrote about your mother, I could have written that myself, it sounds just like I was completely.
In our female line we have a history, and it is not genetic otherwise I would still be in it's grip.

Out of control with my mind and my heart, hence my body followed suit. It can manifest in people completely differently and I don't judge.
It's part of everyone's own personal puzzle



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by KillerQueen
 


I feel that psychosis induced by extreme trauma disproves this premise. Everyone here has met someone who is exposed to an extremely traumatic event, that changes them, never to be the same again.

No-one is arguing that the mind is a blank tablet. We all know from personal experience that it is not. Some kids are born mischievous, while others are naturally behaved. However we also know from personal experience that life experience, and self development, does change people.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 09:15 PM
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What I find interesting is when he was in high school he was studying "temporal illusions". Which is how we perceive time. He mentioned it could be used to change the past.

I'm not sure if he was studying his predisposition to crime. There were no other reports of him acting like a psychopath?

Perhaps this was one big experiment to him?



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by XeroOne
But who's to say the effects of a violence-saturated culture are negative? That would be a subjective view.


Well, if you're talking about a philosophical "what is right? what is wrong?" maybe, but if you're implying that a violence-saturated culture can be positive, I think that can be objectively demonstrated wrong.

Here's a meta-study that says it has a negative impact: Iowa State University

There are other studies that show a neutral correlation, but I can't find anything that claims a positive influence.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 09:28 PM
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Double post

edit on July 23rd 2012 by Daughter2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by Evildead
reply to post by AussieAmandaC
 


He murdered a 6 year old girl and 11 other innocent people AND shot 59 more by executing a plan that he arranged over 4 months or longer. Yes. He should die.

For shooting a 6 year old girl in the face alone YES he should die.


I feel your disgust and anger

I bet you would also hope that his soul would burn for an eternity too?
What if he had already been tortured every day?
What if he existed in his own personal nightmare for all the days of his young life?
He was clearly an intelligent human or he would not have been into the field of study he was.
All those who act above the animal instinct (premeditation) should be feared by that logic.

In comparison ( and I am going to be hated for saying this) those people who were shot had a short time of terror and for some calm acceptance (the bulk of the pain is left for their families), we don't know, but what if he had been suffering a terror for years?
How much can one human take? I would feel more responsible if I was a part of his family that could not see what was right in front of their noses.

It is a truly terrible thing that happened to ALL involved,

Okay then, you can push the button, but I would not

People always want retribution, even when that comes with a price to themselves
the scientists on the other hand say, give it to us we'll figure it out



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 09:43 PM
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reply to post by AussieAmandaC
 

Years of personal terror does not justify taking others out. He should've just killed himself.
If it was my daughter who was senslessly murdered by him I'd want to end his life myself.

Wouldn't you if it had been your daughter?

As far as his soul, that's up to God.

If you rob someone of their life why should you have the pleasure of life?

Eye for an eye.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by XeroOne
But who's to say the effects of a violence-saturated culture are negative? That would be a subjective view.


Well, if you're talking about a philosophical "what is right? what is wrong?" maybe, but if you're implying that a violence-saturated culture can be positive, I think that can be objectively demonstrated wrong.

Here's a meta-study that says it has a negative impact: Iowa State University

There are other studies that show a neutral correlation, but I can't find anything that claims a positive influence.

But that's a question I was kind of asking myself. What does a violence-saturated culture mean to us in the bigger scheme of things? What are the wider effects? Is violence and aggression necessary today?



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 09:58 PM
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reply to post by XeroOne
 


The second article touches on that.

Of course he makes the always scandalous comparisons to chimpanzees which tanks any discussion. Violence may not be necessary but it's hard wired among certain sex and age groups and so will naturally manifest.

Also the newer generation of scientist apparently think that culture is genetically changing brains. Does that mean (in general), that in certain segments of the population that accept violence as more of a norm that over the long, long term, their descendants will as well?



Wilson still holds out the possibility—I think he doubts it, but he still holds out the possibility—that at some point in evolutionary history, culture began to influence the development of the human brain in ways that cannot be explained by strict Darwinian theory. But the new generation of neuroscientists are not cautious for a second.




edit on 23-7-2012 by KillerQueen because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by XeroOne

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by XeroOne
But who's to say the effects of a violence-saturated culture are negative? That would be a subjective view.


Well, if you're talking about a philosophical "what is right? what is wrong?" maybe, but if you're implying that a violence-saturated culture can be positive, I think that can be objectively demonstrated wrong.

Here's a meta-study that says it has a negative impact: Iowa State University

There are other studies that show a neutral correlation, but I can't find anything that claims a positive influence.

But that's a question I was kind of asking myself. What does a violence-saturated culture mean to us in the bigger scheme of things? What are the wider effects? Is violence and aggression necessary today?


At this state of civilization, I would have to say "no". Violence and aggression are negative traits which almost always result in negative consequences. Does violent media (games and films) result in an outlet which defuses violent behaviour? Or does it result in a numbing effect, where violence is de-personified and desensitized?

I would guess that it varies from person to person, but on the whole, I think the cost of one James Holmes nutball is not worth the tradeoff of an infinite number of milquetoasts, who live out their fantasies by shooting computer images in the face.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 10:05 PM
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The second article touches on that.

Of course he makes the always scandalous comparisons to chimpanzees which tanks any discussion. Violence may not be necessary but it's hard wired among certain sex and age groups and so will naturally manifest.

Also the newer generation of scientist apparently think that culture is genetically changing brains. Does that mean (in general), that in certain segments of the population that accept violence as more of a norm that over the long, long term, their descendants will as well?



Wilson still holds out the possibility—I think he doubts it, but he still holds out the possibility—that at some point in evolutionary history, culture began to influence the development of the human brain in ways that cannot be explained by strict Darwinian theory. But the new generation of neuroscientists are not cautious for a second.



It seems to be happening on a much shorter timescale. Look how fast 'consumer culture' took hold, and how we've become conditioned into habitually buying sh!t we don't need. My point was that the norm is what's presented to society.


I would guess that it varies from person to person, but on the whole, I think the cost of one James Holmes nutball is not worth the tradeoff of an infinite number of milquetoasts, who live out their fantasies by shooting computer images in the face.

Now this is the £64 million question: was Holmes a nutball, or was he conditioned/influenced? If it was the latter, how pervasive were those influences? Are we the ones being deceived by his pretence of insanity?
edit on 23-7-2012 by XeroOne because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by seedofchucky
 





you are a product of your enviroment


Sometimes, but I know people that come from tragic circumstances that overcome their upbringing.

Great topic OP.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by XeroOne
Now this is the £64 million question: was Holmes a nutball, or was he conditioned/influenced?


Personally, I'm going with nutball. The real question, I think, is how far back we need to rewind to get to that state? He seemed pretty normal in the videos of him in high school, but I've seen, in my own experiences, that "seeming normal" and "being normal" are two very different things.

But I'm not outside the chance that he truly was normal until something happened of late, and what that "something" was, I don't know.



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