Waynos - Yes, when the doors are open its at its most unstealthy vunerable point, but thats why the doors open/close very quickly. Dont forget that its missiles are not stealthy, Lets just say that a russian mig is flying around, while at the same time a few dozen miles away a F-22 pilot is testing to see if the doors are working correctly, while he checks, the Russian Mig all the sudden sees it, but thats it, because once the doors are shut it becomes stealthy again, he cant shoot a radar missile at it because he cant lock-on on what the computer thinks isn't there, If he fires a heat seeken one in that direction the chances are all he did was waste a missile, because is can out maneuver missiles as well, and thats if it even locks on to the Raptors low heat signature.

Don't make me laugh. The US is THE cutting edge. Period. The Raptor is the superior plane. Period. The Russians are still waiting for their first stealth aircraft, the US has 3, with a 4th under development (F-117, B-2, F-22, F-35 JSF). The US holds the record of fastest plane (SR-71). The US has a "history" as you put it, of making the very best planes.

The F-35 JSF is not totaly stealth, it is stealthy, but not total stealth like a F-117, B-2, or F-22.

The JSF will be picked up on radar, maybe not at long ranges but don't fool yourself, it will be picked up. It wasn't designed too be totaly stealth


[edit on 10-10-2004 by Disposible Hero]

Originally posted by Disposible Hero

Don't make me laugh. The US is THE cutting edge. Period. The Raptor is the superior plane. Period. The Russians are still waiting for their first stealth aircraft, the US has 3, with a 4th under development (F-117, B-2, F-22, F-35 JSF). The US holds the record of fastest plane (SR-71). The US has a "history" as you put it, of making the very best planes.

The F-35 JSF is not totaly stealth, it is stealthy, but not total stealth like a F-117, B-2, or F-22.

The JSF will be picked up on radar, maybe not at long ranges but don't fool yourself, it will be picked up. It wasn't designed too be totaly stealth


[edit on 10-10-2004 by Disposible Hero]

Stealth was in mind when designing this aircraft.

No its not as stealthy as the F-22 or B-2, but it is on the same scale as the F-117, which is still the equivalent of a small bird.

Unless your not from the US, because all the other countries that recieve this jet, thier versions wont be as stealthy or have the exact same avionics as the United States versions.

Originally posted by roniii259
IThe S-37 is optimized for dogfighting, but the smart pilot will only dogfight enough to stay alive then bug out to do a BVR intercept. While a S-37 would look around trying to dogfight the Raptor, .

The superagility while pretty has never really been combat proven at all. While manuvers like the Cobra look good at airshows and sell fighters, untill we have a balls out dogfight, we will never really be sure which design is better. The Raptor is very manuverable esp compared to the 4th and 4.5 gen fighters. Im convinced (amatuer opinion) that the S-37's advantages would not be great enough to overcome the surperior avionics and radar would cary the day even in a dog fight.

Its a moot point right now anyway as the S-37 is currently not destined for production and the Raptor is.

Sorry, make that a triple post....



[edit on 10/11/04 by FredT]

Hmmm my first double post!

[edit on 10/10/04 by FredT]

Unless your not from the US, because all the other countries that recieve this jet, thier versions wont be as stealthy or have the exact same avionics as the United States versions.

I thought the US govt stopped these kind of practices years ago and their most trusted allies do receive the full version?

thanks,
drfunk

considering the JSF program is actually being paid by a number of different nations and they are partners who share I believe share in profits from the sales proportional to their level in the program?

drfunk

Nope, even our closest allies wont get the same stuff that the US military gets. We prefer to keep our stealth edge that we have over the rest of the world, and not just sell it all away. All allies are treated the same here because once you give 1 ally a better version then the one that a different country got then they would get all mad, and possibly stop funding it and cancel there orders and buy some russian aircraft. And you never really know who your true allies are or how long they will stay your allies.

Originally posted by Disposible Hero

Don't make me laugh. The US is THE cutting edge. Period. The Raptor is the superior plane. Period. The Russians are still waiting for their first stealth aircraft, the US has 3, with a 4th under development (F-117, B-2, F-22, F-35 JSF). The US holds the record of fastest plane (SR-71). The US has a "history" as you put it, of making the very best planes.

The F-35 JSF is not totaly stealth, it is stealthy, but not total stealth like a F-117, B-2, or F-22.
[edit on 10-10-2004 by Disposible Hero]

Wrong - it has comprable stealth to the F-117. It does not have the unbelievable stealth of the Raptor or Spirit to save on cost, but the stealth aspect is equal to that of the F-117.

Which since the US is also saying to thier faces that interoperability is so important a lot of democratic allies are wondering why the hell are we blowing our defence budgets so you can sell over priced planes.

I'm sure Boeing would like to sell current state of art technology versions of F-15, and the US Goverment wouldnt block it, and we could leave you guys to supply the stealth element with even an more expensive, smaller force of F-22 and F-35s.

We could get on with buying to match our air threats rather than our ally.

Its a bit rude really, talking our governments into investing hundreds of millions in your R&D then fobbing us off with a lesser version. The marketting department IS the best part of US Aerospace.

Can someone explain it to me.

A private contractor runs an R&D project for a new fighter.....15....20...25....?? years

They continually get billions of dollars in R&D funds to pay for this aircraft from the client the US (and in the case of F-35, foreign) taxpayer.

Obviously they put some of thier own money in, but the bulk of the $$ are taxpayer ones right?

Then they start rewritting the price of the aircraft upwards to recover THIER expenses and make a profit on the expense of the R&D (which the taxpayer largely paid for in the first place)......

and the taxpayers are asked to pay more for an aircraft they have already paid to develop

and the congress and senate cut the funding for more aircraft to save money....

so the manufacturer ups the price to make theier margin, and maybe gets the airforce to downgrade the spec....

And if the manufacturer and the general (soon to be VP of putting suntan lotions on secretaries) are lucky the project will get cancelled because something better has come along....jus as soon as we develop it.

and your allies ,never mind Sth Korea, Turkey or Saudi Arab.....we're talkin Australia (since 1907) and England (since 1917) get second line versions because you don't trust them?

Australians operate the F-18 Hornet (since 1986) and we haven't sold any to China to be copied. Maybe Northrop Grumman did some business with them in the 1980's but that is the USA's business. Australia doesnt let the USA down, and we will support it as long as we think you are right.

Please tell me where we are not getting ripped off?

[edit on 11-10-2004 by craigandrew]

Originally posted by waynos



That picture just made me think. Would the firing of a missile by an F/A-22 always have to be followed immediately by a sharp change of direction and rapid acceleration away from its now exposed position /predicted flight path?

If so could the stealthiness aspect be maintained or is the F/A-22 from this point in a good old fashioned fight with the enemy?

They have a saying " Beware Raptors with open doors " If you are a enemy plane thats the last thing you want to see because you are pretty much dead when you see it.

lost cause
The Su-37's successor won't use the forward swept wing technology...it's benefits don't overshadow its downfalls...something NASA discovered during the X-29 trials.

I know about the X-29 aircraft but what were downfalls that Nasa found out?

Also, the F/A-22 price tag is around 100 million and not 150 million. (Lockheed has done things like: hire more people, new buildings that combine tasks into the one building rather then two, become more efficient at producing them, there nearly at there goal of spitting 3 out a month.)

Originally posted by Murcielago

lost cause
The Su-37's successor won't use the forward swept wing technology...it's benefits don't overshadow its downfalls...something NASA discovered during the X-29 trials.

I know about the X-29 aircraft but what were downfalls that Nasa found out?

I believe most of the problems were in supersonic flight. Could be wrong though.

KENSHIN - You just did one of the things I really hate, and thats posting a big picture.
Because when people type paragraphs they have to scroll over for every damn line! It gets very annoying.
For the future make it a link.
I would prefer you keep the picture under 640 by 480 resolution (size)
and certainly not as big as you posted with a 1488 by 976 resolution.
(thats just a pet peeve of mine)

Hey wow! An F-15 with Russian decals! (oh wait...)