Second Bill of Rights

FDR was going to make some of these the law of the land before he died. Once he died this went away. The need did not go away, just the man promoting it. So I have started anew and made these:

Second Bill of Rights

1. Every citizen has a right to job making a wage that can support him/her
2. Every citizen has a right to a home to live in with running water and electricity
3. No person shall be discriminated against in employment by what they choose to do in the hours they do not work.
4. Every citizen has the right to privacy and anonymity. The government does not have the right to track or keep information on a citizen unless it directly involves a current criminal investigation.
5. Citizens have the right to photograph and/or record any and all policemen when they are on duty.
6. Every citizen has the right to credit regardless of payment history.
7. No citizen shall lose their property due to non payment of property taxes.

What else can we add? What is wrong with what I have put down? Ideas? Thoughts? Suggestions?

Some of them are awesome! 3,4,5,7

Some of them not so much 1,2 in the sense that someone else provide those things to them as an entitlement...

I believe people should have the right to acquire 1,2 by themselves...but not just handed them socialist style

and 6 seems quite silly if you ask me...

#6, goes against the entire concept of credit.

A right to a house? No one has a right to something they don't earn. If you don't work, you don't have the right to a house.

We have an epidemic of laziness right now, some of these would reward it.

You forgot that I have the right to everything in your pocket.
You are asking me to financially support your agendas so out of respect I ask you to support mine.

1. A puppy in every pot.
2. You have to leave your keys in your unlocked car in case somebody runs out of beer.
3. If we smell hickory smoke, we have the right to attend your bar-b-que, (same rights also if you have a swimming pool.)
4. Any spare bedrooms are open to anyone who needs them. The TV remote is public property.
5. Anything in the refrigerator is open to the public. (Food stamps would no longer be needed.)
6. You have the right to a job but you don't have to exercise that right. If you do, you can set your own hours and days off.)
7. Your child cannot have a birthday party unless you invite mine. Presents will be redistributed before the children leave.
8. Clerks will no longer be allowed to hide guns behind the counter at liquor stores and the 7-11.
9. Any computer taken outside the home becomes public property.
10. Ozzie Osborne must be played on every radio station at least once per hour.

I hope you find my proposals as reasonable as I found yours. Cheers.

Originally posted by Ookie
FDR was going to make some of these the law of the land before he died. Once he died this went away. The need did not go away, just the man promoting it. So I have started anew and made these:

Second Bill of Rights

1. Every citizen has a right to job making a wage that can support him/her

We do have not a right but freedom to find this job, if you mean a right to this job however, just who is supposed to hire this tool?

2. Every citizen has a right to a home to live in with running water and electricity

Same as the first question.

3. No person shall be discriminated against in employment by what they choose to do in the hours they do not work.

There are already laws in place, sometimes quite draconian if you ask me.

4. Every citizen has the right to privacy and anonymity. The government does not have the right to track or keep information on a citizen unless it directly involves a current criminal investigation.

With a very few exceptions this is already the case.

5. Citizens have the right to photograph and/or record any and all policemen when they are on duty.

Agreed, but I'd go even further. any uniformed or non undercover police must wear a shoulder mounted camera during their entire workshift. If you have nothing to hide... Isn't that what they tell us???

6. Every citizen has the right to credit regardless of payment history.

Same as 1 and 2, unless if you mean interest free loans like they had in Libya before the IMF...UN/NATO got done with them...

7. No citizen shall lose their property due to non payment of property taxes.

Better yet, abolish property taxes on people who own only one property. This includes properties abroad.
If you bought it, it is yours...

What else can we add? What is wrong with what I have put down? Ideas? Thoughts? Suggestions?

The problem many do not realize is laws put limits more often than not and erode freedoms.

reply to post by Ookie

1. One cannot, by definition, have a right to the labor of another without enslaving the one whose labor is being given away. Thus, this is a right to slavery.
   
   
2. One cannot, by definition, have a right to the labor of another without enslaving the one whose labor is being given away. Thus, this is a right to slavery.
   
   
3. I actually like this one, but I foresee problems with it as well. Conflicts of interest can and do arise. Perhaps if you added "unless such activities present substantial business or public relations difficulties for the employer"?
   
   
4. Completely agreed.
   
   
5. Completely agreed.
   
   
6. This would legalize theft. It would be used to force credit despite refusal to repay past debts. It also falls under the same category as #1 and #2.
   
   "I'm not giving you the money I borrowed back. Now give me more!"
   
   
7. Might as well do away with the property taxes then (which I would not be upset about in the least). Otherwise, property tax is a law which cannot be enforced by law... like saying spitting on the sidewalk is illegal but no one can be arrested or fined for spitting on the sidewalk.

TheRedneck

reply to post by g146541

Better yet, abolish property taxes on people who own only one property. This includes properties abroad.
If you bought it, it is yours...

I actually like that. One residential property where you live is tax-free, but additional residential and all commercial properties are subject to property tax. And since a corporation is not a person and needs no residence to live, the one property exemption would obviously not apply to property owned or used by a corporation (or business).

We already have something similar here: one property can be designated as a "homestead" and the taxes are significantly lowered for that one property.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by Nite_wing
You forgot that I have the right to everything in your pocket.
You are asking me to financially support your agendas so out of respect I ask you to support mine.

1. A puppy in every pot.
2. You have to leave your keys in your unlocked car in case somebody runs out of beer.
3. If we smell hickory smoke, we have the right to attend your bar-b-que, (same rights also if you have a swimming pool.)
4. Any spare bedrooms are open to anyone who needs them. The TV remote is public property.
5. Anything in the refrigerator is open to the public. (Food stamps would no longer be needed.)
6. You have the right to a job but you don't have to exercise that right. If you do, you can set your own hours and days off.)
7. Your child cannot have a birthday party unless you invite mine. Presents will be redistributed before the children leave.
8. Clerks will no longer be allowed to hide guns behind the counter at liquor stores and the 7-11.
9. Any computer taken outside the home becomes public property.
10. Ozzie Osborne must be played on every radio station at least once per hour.

I hope you find my proposals as reasonable as I found yours. Cheers.

I do agree to most of your proposals some exceptions.
First off no puppies in pots unless it will be for a cute web photo.
Keys / beer check!
Hickory smoke...I do propane so I guess I'm a lawyer now with mah loopholes!!
I agree with the rest of your proposals however!

Number 7 takes away the governments ability to extort.

Without the governments ability to threaten and coerce you the government will cease to be a government.

In the spirit of government boosting efficiency delinquent taxpayers should lose their property and their lives after failing to pay immediately upon notice.

All hail government!

Originally posted by xstealth
We have an epidemic of laziness right now, some of these would reward it.

I disagree with this part, I do not see people as lazy but distraught, disenfranchised, dis something else.
My self for example, if my health were better I could have worked for a few more years, seeing the bad job market and retirement available, I opted out of the system.
I'll take what is owed to me now thanks!
I was a working sonofabeep, but if I were healthy, I just might be one of those unemployed.

reply to post by Ookie


If a man works 40 hours a week he should be able to afford a home and a car, the fact that most Americans have mom and dad at work for more than that and they still can't afford a home and car should be criminal. Sorry for all you I worked hard types, but guess what, so does everyone else. There is a small minority of lazy people in this world, most of them are rich, and do nothing to deserve the many times per capita income they have.theirs was a lucky role of the dice, nothing more. Anyone could have been born into their rich family, who's daddy got him into the right schools and who hooked him up with the right job.

Sadly that is not the lot of most in this world. There is more than enough for everyone, you all just havve to get off your hi horses and admit that YOU did not work harder than evveryone else, YOU are not better than any other man just because you have and he haveth not.

Honestly, unless your Steve Jobs ( may his pparticular diety rest his soul) or Mark Zuckerburg, or Bill Gates than you are not so smart you deserve to live in the lap os luxury,you got lucky. There are at least 1000 people qualified to do your job in your area, you have it not them, does that make you better? No it means that even though there was 100 people more qualified or smarter or any number of things the fact is, they were not going to interview 1000 people, so alphabetically a are more likely then w to be hired. Or someone liked your shoes, I mean the list goes on and on.

So I would think that we should have 1, 2 and 6 combined.

1 a man has right to fair compensation for his time. As such, a business owner must pay a rate to said employees as compendation that is both resonable for said employee and resonable for the business. For example " bill" owns walmartn bill got 400,000,000 american dollars in profit last yearn bill only spent 100,000 american dollars in pay roll. Bill will either have to pay more to his employees per hour or he will have to give them a large bonusn because bill didn't make that moneyn his employees did it with their hard work and sweat. Bill just sat in the office counting his money. So bill needsto look in the mirror and ask himselfn could I live on that?

Originally posted by Ookie

1. Every citizen has a right to job making a wage that can support him/her

Meaning that the person that owns a business is now forced, by law, to hire someone regardless of qualifications. Never held a hammer before, but want to build a house? And it's not your fault the house you build caved in under improperly load-bearing walls and killed their 6 year old daughter, because it was your right to build that house! Not to mention the fact that business owners now become slaves.

2. Every citizen has a right to a home to live in with running water and electricity

Everyone has a right to the access to home ownership. And everyone does have access.

3. No person shall be discriminated against in employment by what they choose to do in the hours they do not work.

I mostly agree with this. There are situations where even if you're off work, if you do something that could bring harm to the company you could be fired. And you could extend this to school. While I'm a cantankerous old man that can't stand those young hooligans, if you're out of school the school should have no control over you (excluding school-sponsored functions). Saying "Principal Brown is a doodyhead!" on Facebook is your personal thoughts. Principal Brown needs to grow and spine and suck it up. And stop being a doodyhead.

4. Every citizen has the right to privacy and anonymity. The government does not have the right to track or keep information on a citizen unless it directly involves a current criminal investigation.

I agree with this.

5. Citizens have the right to photograph and/or record any and all policemen when they are on duty.

Right now, without a municipal or state law in place stating otherwise, we are allowed to photograph and/or record police. We just need to be vigilant in not allowing any laws to be put into place disallowing it.

6. Every citizen has the right to credit regardless of payment history.

No, this is horrible. I have no love of banks, but they make money by lending money and collecting the interest. Interest allows them to make more loans. If nobody pays them back, not only do they lose what they lent, they become unable to lend any more. Like them or not, banks are how we get loans. Just like you a right to expect your friend Bob to pay you back for a $20 floater, they have a right to be paid back for a loan. Horrible ideal. It supports theft.

7. No citizen shall lose their property due to non payment of property taxes.

100% agree with the idea. While I can't stand the idea of a property tax in the first place, while it exists, I pay it. However, if I don't, and I own my property free and clear, what right does anyone have to take it away from me? The taxes are used for schools, police, fire, and roads. Suppose I don't have kids? Don't need the schools. And if I accept that police and fire won't come to my house to help me because I didn't pay taxes, how about that in exchange? But taking my property outright? You better come armed.

What else can we add? What is wrong with what I have put down? Ideas? Thoughts? Suggestions?

Some good ideas above, but they shouldn't be included as a "Bill of Rights". The problem with FDR's, and the problem with everyone's that has come along behind him, is that they think of a BOR in terms of positive wording, meaning that this BOR will bestow rights upon us. The original BOR was specifically written with negative wording, meaning that it doesn't bestow any rights upon us, it (is supposed to) prevent our rights from being infringed upon.

Using the Second Amendment as an example, people like to say "I have a Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms!" The fact is, we don't have a Second Amendment right to do that. We simply have a right to keep and bear arms. The Second Amendment was written to prevent the government from infringing on that right that we have as human beings. It's the same with the other nine (well, seven, since nine and ten aren't specific to any individual right).

Nobody should every have rights bestowed upon them by a government, as that government can suspend or cancel those rights at any time.

/TOA

Originally posted by Ookie
6. Every citizen has the right to credit regardless of payment history.

This one I do not agree with.. If you cant afford it you do not need it..

Yes I have no credit, literally no credit.. Never had a CC, car payment or anything like that.. Hell I don't even use a bank..

I go on the idea that if I want something that i cant afford i either save up for it or I don't even worry about it..

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by Ookie

1. One cannot, by definition, have a right to the labor of another without enslaving the one whose labor is being given away. Thus, this is a right to slavery.
   
   
2. One cannot, by definition, have a right to the labor of another without enslaving the one whose labor is being given away. Thus, this is a right to slavery.
   
   

Is this a new libertarian talking point? Pops up a lot lately...
Anyway, it's nonsense.

Contracts:
If I break a contract, you do not have to enforce the penalties yourself, you can demand law enforcement to do it for you.

Property:
If I steal something from you, you have the right to demand of law enforcement to look for your property, return it to you and punish me (After allowing me to meet you in a court of law, and challenge your accusations).

read the soviet constitution.

it does not work.

these rights only create slavery, and misery...

reply to post by narwahl

Whaaaaa......?

Could you explain to me how you made the connection between forcing someone to provide something for another without choice and damaging someone through criminal or negligent activity?

I'm totally confused....

TheRedneck

PS: Thanks for the political association hint. Without others telling me what I am, I would never know,since I keep bouncing between liberal, conservative, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Constitutionalist, centrist, patriot, traitor, and everything in between.

Originally posted by Nite_wing
You forgot that I have the right to everything in your pocket.
You are asking me to financially support your agendas so out of respect I ask you to support mine.

1. A puppy in every pot.
2. You have to leave your keys in your unlocked car in case somebody runs out of beer.
3. If we smell hickory smoke, we have the right to attend your bar-b-que, (same rights also if you have a swimming pool.)
4. Any spare bedrooms are open to anyone who needs them. The TV remote is public property.
5. Anything in the refrigerator is open to the public. (Food stamps would no longer be needed.)
6. You have the right to a job but you don't have to exercise that right. If you do, you can set your own hours and days off.)
7. Your child cannot have a birthday party unless you invite mine. Presents will be redistributed before the children leave.
8. Clerks will no longer be allowed to hide guns behind the counter at liquor stores and the 7-11.
9. Any computer taken outside the home becomes public property.
10. Ozzie Osborne must be played on every radio station at least once per hour.

I hope you find my proposals as reasonable as I found yours. Cheers.

edit on 23-7-2012 by Nite_wing because: (no reason given)

And don't forget Hillary's 5000 bucks for everyone to start a college fund....

I applaud your efforts at renewing FDR's call for an economic bill of rights. Here is the original:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

So how is a person going to get a job if there's no jobs in the area to be gotten? A right to jobs doesn't mean squat if there are no jobs.

Edit:

Also, what if the employer is filled to the brim with jobs and can't afford to hire anyone else? Why does he have to hire one more person that will ruin him financially?

reply to post by EvilSadamClone


As to your first part the job would probably be somewhere else. The point of the statement was that you can't fire someone just 'because.' It was an early call to end workplace discrimination. Not that 'everyone gets a job because I say so,' but that 'everyone that wants and deserves a job, gets one.'

As to your second point, the original economic bill of rights mentions a 'useful' job. If you're hired just because you're unemployed but offer nothing to the company or society as a result then it's not a useful job.