Need Sum Wood?

Originally posted by Nerdling
I would like clarification on which of these internets we reside on.

the one that gore invented, gee don't you remember. nice find on the pic

Originally posted by Herman
See? Using stupid insulting stereotypes is easy. Bush admits that one part of the sanctions were working, so that's a flip-flop to you? Yeah, Saddam was getting some of the sanctions lifted. That doesn't mean that he was able to get around every aspect of them. Maybe Bush should have said they're working to some extent, but not quite well enough. I could name for you a few instances of Kerry flip-flops during the debate, but that's not what this was about was it?

Either the sanctions were working and Saddam was trying to get rid of them so he could restart his WMD program, or they weren't working. You can't have it both ways.

Originally posted by W_HAMILTON

Originally posted by Herman
See? Using stupid insulting stereotypes is easy. Bush admits that one part of the sanctions were working, so that's a flip-flop to you? Yeah, Saddam was getting some of the sanctions lifted. That doesn't mean that he was able to get around every aspect of them. Maybe Bush should have said they're working to some extent, but not quite well enough. I could name for you a few instances of Kerry flip-flops during the debate, but that's not what this was about was it?

Either the sanctions were working and Saddam was trying to get rid of them so he could restart his WMD program, or they weren't working. You can't have it both ways.

Well see, your ideology would work if everything was just black and white; however, it's not. While I do understand how this could easily sound like a flip-flop, if you examine the issue you'll find that it's not one.

[Edited on 10-10-2004 by Herman]

lol, you mean things aren't just black and white? You mean there are shades of grey? You are a Bush supporter right, and you are admitting this? lol

And I'm sorry. If that whole "I voted for the 87b before I voted against it" was a flip flop, this damn sure is too. Either sanctions were working, and Saddam wanted to lift them so he could restart his weapons programs, or they weren't working. Bush said both at the debate -- which is it?

You know, I'm gonna follow the motto of this site and deny ignorance though.

Too often on these msg boards I deal with people who are too blind to listen to reason, and instead do and say whatever so it looks like they are right.

So explain to me...and no spin please.

On one hand, you say that Saddam was trying to lift the sanctions so that he could restart his WMD program. If he was interested in restarting his WMD program, and he could start them even with the presence of sanctions, would it not be, uh, very logical to assume that he would have done so? But he didn't. As Bush said, he was trying to get the sanctions lifted so he could restart his WMD program.

Next, you say sanctions were not working. Well, if it's not a very, VERY obvious contradition in itself, I'll walk you thru this one as well. Sanctions weren't working eh? So why was Saddam trying to get them lifted so he could restart his weapons program? If sanctions really had zero effect on Saddam's WMD program, and Saddam wanted to restart the WMD program, why did he not do so?

Again, no spin. If you say that Saddam didn't restart them because he simply just chose not to at that time, well then that means he isn't a "threat of unique urgency." If Saddam didn't restart them because of the sanctions, well then sanctions were working. If Saddam didn't restart them for some other reason, well then sanctions had no effect on his WMD program and Saddam didn't need to have sanctions lifted to restart his weapons program.

So which is it? One of those is true, and whichever you choose will contradict what Bush said.

You're putting words into his mouth. He didn't say that they had ZERO affect. Saddam wanted to get these sanctions lifted because it would make it much easier to produce weapons. The intelligence that Bush got before we invaded Iraq said that Saddam WAS producing nuclear weapons. Going off of said intelligence, the sanctions were not working. This is what Bush said. He has admitted that this intelligence was wrong. At the time; however, it looked as though they clearly weren't working. Again you're looking at everything in complete black and white. If Bush said that they weren't working, he must have meant that EVERY SINGLE aspect wasn't working, correct? No.

[Edited on 10-10-2004 by Herman]

.....cant..........hold out..........any longer.........must..........change........location........too............funny..........arghhhhhh!

Speaking of blind�.if the sanctions were so successful, how come a decade after the start he was still dribbling verboten material out. If it was such a successful effort how come after the invasion disallowed materials were found, a decade worth of effort and still crap dribbling out�.what a success story. And you dare to carp about $600 hammers?

First off, the purpose of sanctions was for complete VOLUNTARY compliance not grudging dribbling, not the onesie twosie see what they will leave me with�.so to say it was not working is absolutely correct. To further say that the sanctions not working and saddam was waiting for the world to look the other way are somehow contradictory is ignorant at best as both final inspector reports have detailed those facts. Both of the last two chief inspectors acknowledged the dribbling non-compliance, and both admitted that the reconstitution of weapons programs appeared o be a goal.

And that comparison was rich�.you�ve got to understand first I voted for it before I voted against it�.how pathetic to explain that as nuanced. There is a ton of stuff to nail bush on without distorting or spinning why lefties continually focus on crap that is just completely false is beyond me�.and then they accuse the president of lying that is the rich irony of it.


[edit on 10-10-2004 by keholmes]

I didn't cringe at "need some wood", I laughed. It was funny.


I also laughed at Kerry, when he stared into the camera, looked
America, right in the "eye" and said, "YES, I am not going to raise taxes."

It wasn't really what he said, it was his averting of the eyes, and ramblings-on afterward that made me laugh...SUCH SINCERITY!

Kerry lost the election at that point, not just the debate, the election..

I said no spin Herman.

Is it just me or do some ATS folks seem to deny everything BUT ignorance?

Originally posted by W_HAMILTON

I said no spin Herman.

Is it just me or do some ATS folks seem to deny everything BUT ignorance?

You know Hamilton, it's so incredibly typical of you to say things like that. Did you even read keholmes' post? You seem to be the one denying everything but ignorance.