I found an obvious glaring problem with the gun club story

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by Sounds_of_Silence

 

what was his " motive " for the choice of underwear he wore ? [ during the attack ] ?

See that's just it. There is no real motive and he is not insane because if he where insane he would have not known enough to,time the attack with a shooting sequence in the movie, change clothes, surrender, evade detection multiple times.

good point

Originally posted by Char-Lee

Then why not keep the weapon and shoot it out with the law after the shootings? That is the usual course for a deranged shooter.

That is why I think it is a physical thing going on where at times he is normal like and others he is off on his fantasies. He seemed totally confused in court, like he could not understand what was happening, or why he was there.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Char-Lee

Then why not keep the weapon and shoot it out with the law after the shootings? That is the usual course for a deranged shooter.

That is why I think it is a physical thing going on where at times he is normal like and others he is off on his fantasies. He seemed totally confused in court, like he could not understand what was happening, or why he was there.

they made it sound like he was out of control in custody and possibly suicidal so i believe they gave him tranqs.

I believe some people just snap. It may seem crazy and hard to believe but it happens. He was probably always like this, but hid it really well. Studying neuroscience may have been an attempt at fixing himself or to try and understand the nature of himself. The holmes you see now is the real holmes.

reply to post by ignorant_ape


Can't really see through the brown haze that your response has left, where do you get off posting like that? You call yourself a scholar but a scholar of what? That is absolute drivel...primitive even. With the amount of posts you've accrued I'm sure that some others have witnessed such a colourful compilation of input from you over the years judging by the reply you have left me seriously? After the first person who has replied sharing their views then you could've joked but if you have no real input as to why he invested so much money in body armour when he didn't even resist arrest, you really can't see through the fact that he was geared up to prolong the fight not surrender as soon as his gun jammed? After it failed why wasnt he carrying a duffel bag full of tec 9s with aftermarket magazines?

When they frame a patsy, they do stuff like this so that it will become damning 'evidence' that makes the public believe. The CIA term for this technique is "sheep dipping." So what they do is they have an operative pretend to be the guy they are going to frame and they make it look like he was into guns and unstable.

What they did to sheep dip Oswald was an operative who looked in appearance similar to Oswald went to a gun range, was surly and mean spirited, started cussing and saying "Oh, you want to report me for being a jerk? Go right ahead. I'm Lee Harvey Oswald. Get my name right when you try to get me kicked out of here," Then he fires a round from a rifle into another dude's target and the range manager kicks him off the range. The manager asked the other shooters "who was that guy?" and one of them said "He said his name is Lee Harvey Oswald."

This happened a couple of weeks before the assassination. Of course, these guys call the FBI and tell them they saw a Lee Harvey Oswald, an angry hot head of a guy, breaking the range rules by shooting another target with his rifle.

So anyway, that is called sheep dipping. The Oswald they arrested knew nothing of the gun range story. He wasn't there. The ops just used his name. They also used his name to mail order the cheap Italian rifle they found at the school book depository. Detectives also found a much better rifle, a German Mauser, on the same floor of the depository but soon retracted the Mauser story and told the press "we were mistaken about the Mauser." Okie-dokie. I guess the detective in his haste misread the engraved stamp on the barrel that said Mauser. He's only a police detective. How could we expect him to know anything about guns, right? Oh, we were mistaken. Sure.

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
Why would a lunatic calculate this much?
a) Time an attack with a sequence in the movie that hasn't been released yet.
b) Rig a one way door sneak out.
c) change clothes.

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman
See that's just it. There is no real motive and he is not insane because if he where insane he would have not known enough to,time the attack with a shooting sequence in the movie, change clothes, surrender, evade detection multiple times.

Are you confusing sanity with the legal defense by insanity here perhaps?

The reason why (often) a very well planned murderer can't plead insanity is due to the American Law Institute test in most states.

There is a wordy exert down the bottom of this post, but to summarize ... A person pleading insanity has to prove they did not know the 'nature and quality of the act he/she was doing'. From my reading this is pretty rarely successful, and easily closed down by pointing out that the criminal took precautions to preserve themselves and avoid detection. (Thus they knew their actions were wrong)

Furthermore, in the majority of cases, if a criminal's mental defect is primarily involving criminal action they won't have a successful plea either. IE A psychopath would struggle with this defense due to the fact their mental defect is that they generally adore breaking social norms.

A person can be a jar full of crazy and still plan things. Conditions such as depression and bipolar allow for well planned irrational acts, as do forms of schizophrenia and other pathological conditions ... It's just next to impossible to defend in an American court room.

The two major principles that guide insanity evaluations in the United States are the M'Naughten test and the American Law Institute (ALI) test; different states employ different standards. According to M'Naughten, in order to establish a defense on the grounds of insanity: "It must be clearly proved that, at the time of committing an act, the party accused was laboring under such a defect of reason, from disease of the mind, as to not know the nature and quality of the act he was doing, or if he did know it, that he did not know he was doing wrong." According to the ALI test: "A person is not responsible for criminal conduct if at the time of such conduct, as a result of mental disease or defect, he lacks substantial capacity either to appreciate the criminality (wrongfulness) of his conduct or to conform his conduct to the requirements of the law."

Source

What if he was fighting a demon? Obviously the demon won........Perhaps the real question is for what purpose?

I realize some of you think this is crazy but thats ONLY because you never had an encounter with them. There is no mistaking their presence, and are weak then you make easy pray for them.

They are as real as the sun and the moon.

No I'm not religious but I do believe in God the creator of all things........beyond that I lay no stake in what the bible says as truth but certainly not false and there is a lot of good teachings within it as well as other Holy Books.

But Demons? Oh Yeah Hell Yeah there real.......and if you call them they will be glad to show up for you but it will be on their terms not yours!

People eating faces off and going now this?

I'm wondering what they are setting us up for........the world is their stage!

Originally posted by Unity_99
Plus he is tall and the eye witness said 5 8 for the shooter he saw, though there could have been a partner. So it doesnt add up I see a patsy who didn't do it and he has angry glaring eyes too.

Just a thought on the height thing everyone is bringing up. I'm 5ft 9in, when i worked alongside the Queens Company Grenadier guards many moons ago, who were all 6ft plus, just by wearing my combat boots and helmet could easily take me to near their height.

Definately enough to increase my height a few inches, so if this lad is tall anyway, you can throw a couple more inches on top for the helmet and boots.

Certainly would differ from the shorter heights being banded around.

Depends on whether the witness saw him in the dark too. Hard making a height estimation in the dark of a cinema.

CX.

reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman


Pre-meditated actions spur from insanity?

Originally posted by Sounds_of_Silence
reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman

 

Pre-meditated actions spur from insanity?

They certainly can do.

Schizophrenic criminals are commonly able to have long term beliefs that allow them to premeditate crimes or perform premeditated actions.

Premeditation (especially long term premeditation) is often used as evidence against insanity, but it is still possible to premeditate whilst having psychosis / delusions. I firmly believe many juries reject the defense out of general principal.

Motive : Maybe he really thought he would be able to change the past, and this was to test his theory... And in court thinking to himself "s#!t this should have worked I don't understand what i'am doing here !!" duh!

Massacres Colorado

Colorado
Ludlow....meaning Ruler's Hill
4/20/1914

11 children
2 women
best guess total deaths 19-25

Rockefeller family involved

85 years later to the day 8+5=13


Colorado
Colmbine...meaning Feminine/Dove
4/20/1999

12 students die
plus 1 teacher

!2.08 commit suicide



13 years later

Colorado
Aurora meaning... Light fom the sky
Theater shooting

12 dead

Dark Knight rated PG 13
7/20/2012

12.05 PM showing

reply to post by Chibbols


Maybe he was emulating a famous Sherlock Holmes story 'The Red Headed League'? At least the protagonist has red hair. Sherlock stories are mysteries to be solved and we are all puzzled by the massacre, both the how and why...168.144.50.205...

reply to post by mattdel


I don't buy it either... the club owner warned others because his voicemail was "weird"?? How weird would it have to be, to be denied access to a gun club?

Originally posted by Pinke

Originally posted by Sounds_of_Silence
reply to post by John_Rodger_Cornman

 

Pre-meditated actions spur from insanity?

They certainly can do.

Schizophrenic criminals are commonly able to have long term beliefs that allow them to premeditate crimes or perform premeditated actions.

Premeditation (especially long term premeditation) is often used as evidence against insanity, but it is still possible to premeditate whilst having psychosis / delusions. I firmly believe many juries reject the defense out of general principal.

It's true. i know someone who is schizophrenic and stopped taking their medication. They were convinced they were going to elope with a famous figure (who they'd never met) and planned it all in minute detail, buying clothes, booking flights etc. The planning went on for months but obviously they were delusional.

It's not as cut and dried as saying he looks mad or he doesn't look mad to us. Much asessment needs to be done but I don't feel we'll be told the whole truth about any of this.

Originally posted by squirelnutz
reply to post by mattdel

 

I don't buy it either... the club owner warned others because his voicemail was "weird"?? How weird would it have to be, to be denied access to a gun club?

Not that weird, really. First of all, Lead Valley is a small, family range. They probably don't have a whole lot of 'walk-in' business, and since they're about an hour outside of Denver, they probably don't have a huge number of regular members, either. That range was founded by a family and some of the family's friends after they became dissatisfied with some of the ranges in town. My guess is, knowing how these smaller ranges work, they have a small number of 'core' members and a total membership less than what the big ranges in metro Denver see in walk-in traffic in a week. In other words, these guys know who their members are, they probably don't get a whole lot of applicants, and it's the same two guys that screen every single member.

On top of that, the range owner has said that he tried to call Holmes repeatedly and never got a reply. That, coupled with the allegedly goofy sounding message, is what caused the owner to 'flag' Holmes' application and tell the other range workers about it. So, given that multiple calls were made and it was a big enough flag for the owner to alert the staff, it's entirely believable that this guy remembered Holmes' application.

One question I have, however, is this: Why Lead Valley? It's kind of far out of town and Holmes had other, bigger ranges much, much closer. The Firing Line is just north of the theater (about halfway in between Holmes' apartment and the theater), making it really close, and Cherry Creek is just southwest of there. If the idea was to shoot long range, Cherry Creek has a 100yd tube. If the idea was to be discreet, any of the 'big' ranges in town with a high rate of foot traffic would've been much more below the radar than a small, closed, family club an hour away. Doesn't make sense. I'd be interested to know if Holmes had had any interaction with Cherry Creek or the Firing Line prior to his application to Lead Valley.

I find it weird because the guy is missing out on potential money, but if it's a small family owned club, makes sense.. cared more about the reputation of his club than a few extra dollars a month.. But why flag it? because of the voicemail? if it was creepy enough to flag him cuz of it, why did he keep calling him trying to reach him?

Good question about why picking a club so far away

Another thing that seems fishy is the notebook delivered to the professors

reply to post by mattdel


There may be a mistake, and you may find it, and then we'll all know about it, and the television sets will say?

OS

Because that's all that matters. See 911.

Let's say that you find a dozen more 'mistakes'? Through the awesomeness of the internet, we'll find out about it..but what will cass sunstein do?

Because that's all that matters.

At this point, people know there's something going on. The problem is that they are still looking to the media for answers, when they should be examining their lies, their tactics, and objectives.