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The Shameless Opportunism of Gun Control Advocates

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posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 05:51 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


Every time something like this happens......

Something like this happens.




posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 06:48 AM
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Originally posted by sonnny1
I do wonder if Gun Control Advocates, would be as hard on those driving Automobiles, if this man decided to murder these people, by driving his car into a packed movie house Lobby. This man was insane, and used a Gun, to kill innocent victims. He could have used his car, just as well. MHO



Just look at the thousands, if not tens of thousands severely injured or killed on America's roadways every year by drunk drivers. Does anyone think we should ban alcohol? Apply the same logic as the gun control supporters: if people had no access to alcohol, then there would be no drunk drivers and thousands, maybe even tens of thousands of lives could be saved yearly. Yet not many seem to care...or maybe they just choose to turn a blind eye when its a freedom that they actually do care about that could be taken away.

And in unrelated news, I see that the media idiots are devoting all of about 30 seconds per hour to a single vehicle accident (in Texas?) that killed 12 people last night. Don't know if alcohol was involved, but none of them seem to care given that there aren't any cheap political points to score.






edit on 23-7-2012 by vor78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 07:43 AM
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Does it not seem odd that this shooting comes about in the midst of the largest financial scandal in history?
Do not get me wrong, I have the utmost sympathy for the victims and their families, just seems odd....



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:15 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


But....But................But................
How could this all happen? Century Theaters is a "Gun Free Zone", much like most of NY City and the Liberal Bastion Cities.

I don't understand how this could happen. Didn't Mr. Holmes read the signs outside of the theater?




Great 1, 2, 3 connection made Mr. Zodeaux. Only wish we had Boondock to help with the further investigation of the Rabbit Hole.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by macman
But....But................But................
How could this all happen? Century Theaters is a "Gun Free Zone", much like most of NY City and the Liberal Bastion Cities.

I don't understand how this could happen. Didn't Mr. Holmes read the signs outside of the theater?


That's something the gun control freaks don't understand. Criminals and crazies don't exactly follow the law. Taking weapons from the people only screws them over, not the criminals.

Bloomburg needs to quit running his suck about guns. If he's all in favor of gun bans, why doesn't he disarm his PSD?

Yeah, that ain't gonna happen.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


One thing that strikes me as ironic about some folks who are advocating stricter gun laws in this country. You are appealing to the very same criminal government that cannot keep its own illegal guns safe and out of the hands of other criminals to give you the safety and security that you are so desperate for. (Referencing “Fast and Furious" here.) A government that has proven time and again over the decades to be incompetent at best, and at worst, knowingly and willingly operates outside its own laws and rules. Good people asking criminals to keep them safe from other criminals sounds as though we are discussing a plot line for another “Godfather” movie.

To those who despise guns or the thought of even owning one, much less ever having to handle one, that is your right. I will not berate you for your decision, but do not berate me for my decision to own firearms, legally, and be responsible in that ownership. It is my right to do so, just as it is your right not to.

For me it is a means of attempting to not be another victim of crime in a seemingly increasing violent society where good, decent and many times innocent people become a victim of violence. Is my belief and practice in owning a firearm a guarantee of my safety? No, I could just as easily be shot on the street for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. That possibility increases since my state is a non-C&C state unless you meet certain criteria, such as making night drops at the bank for a business, criteria I do not meet. And before I get the “A C&C may not save your life in that situation either”, you are correct it may not as the environment/events on the street is one that I may not necessarily have any control over. However in saying that, anyone that dares enter my home with bad intent will be met with resistance and an equalized playing field. I refuse to be a willing victim in my own home where I do have some control over my environment. You may call me a gun nut if you wish, names hold no sway over what I firmly believe to be the right course of action for my life.

JPZ, yet another excellent thread and I thank you for creating it. You mention in one of your posts that you do not own a firearm and will not unless forced to do so. My friend, I honestly hope you never feel forced into taking that action, just as I hope the conditions which prompt me to excersise my 2nd amendment right will one day be non-exsistant.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
I'll take angst fueled drivel over lackadaisical drivel any day. Apathy is a large part of the steady erosion of respect for unalienable rights, but of course, you have the unalienable right to brag about your apathy and there plenty of gun owners out there who would stand in your defense...not that you care, but that's the beauty of apathy, no?

If I were apathetic, I wouldn't have bothered to comment. As will will amply pointed out, this is an American debate, but seeing as this is an international site, you are going to get international response to postings. I understand the view that gun ownership is a constitutional right and that any hint of 'control' is regarded as an attack on that right.

I will point out two things, though. First, that there is considerable debate amongst your own citizenry so 'foreign' commentary cannot be simply written off as anti-Americanism.

Secondly, that for those of us in other...shall we say civilised?...nations, the notion of walking around carrying a handgun or an assault rifle as casually as a pack of smokes is truly curious. It's not like we are without gun crime...as recent events in Toronto demonstrate...but in a community where only arseholes are packing...those who pack are arseholes (law enforcement, military and the very, very odd civilian notwithstanding). We conpare crime stats and the reasons seem obvious.

So, don't think that we are merrily taking left-wing shots at God-fearing Americans, it's more a case of curious fascination as...from our perspective...we see a nation devouring itself.

My point has been that this sad event is being exploited by the gun nuts just as vociferously as by the 'gun control freaks'. Right here.

Quick edit to say that when I say 'civilised', I am including the U.S.
edit on 23-7-2012 by JohnnyCanuck because: ...just because...ok?



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 10:07 AM
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I would like to hear Obama and his liberal cohorts state that native Africans had no right to self defense (firearms if they could afford them or their homemade spears) when the slave traders came to capture them like wild animals and ship them off to be sold as human slaves (many not even making the journey due to the inhumane conditions).



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 

I like the Clausewitz quote in your OP. He also said that "at the culminating point the violence of the reverse is greater than that of the forward push." We apparently are headed for such a ''culminating point'' in this country.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 10:15 AM
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The Shameless Opportunism of Gun Control Advocates


No more shameless than CCW advocates and gun lovers apologist coming out after a shooting like this.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 10:15 AM
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Opportunism, behind the tragedy in Colorado, hear me people, America is one of the only countries that have a Constitution that protect citizens of the rights to arms

This advantage do not sit well with the globalist and the corporate dictatorship that runs our nation.

We all citizens with the rights to own arms are a danger to the powers running the nation we are the most armed citizens in the planet.

We can not allow the corruption call government and the corporate pimps to take over our constitutional rights

People needs to wake up, is not only about gun control but more laws sitting in congress worst than the patriot act, like home grown terrorism act

Once Americans lose the right to arms we will become an official dictatorship.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 10:35 AM
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Just throwing my two sense in. Why does no ever bring up the argument that every good citizen should be armed in case good citizens need to protect each other from a corrupt government? I'm not saying our government is corrupt, but it could happen. Honestly our government is corrupt, but it hasn't committed an atrocity worth revolution yet. Ontop of that I'm a Freemason. I constantly have to defend myself & my organization because there are a great deal of conspiracy theories that we have infiltrated every government in the world, & were going to use our collective power to... Well okay I'm not compluty sure what everyone claims our end game is. World domination or something. If we controll every government in the world I don't see why our plan is to control the World. The point is if it's such a common belief that all the governments are evil, & can't be trusted than why do you trust that the government's officers are the only ones who should have the rite to be armed? I've seen claims that the government is seperateing us from the God center of the brain by poisoning the water with floride, the government hides the secret of UFOs, the government covered up the existence of mirmaids, the government has plains dump poisonis chem trails, the government is hiding the fact were being irradiated by fish, & the government is run by an evil organization bent on ruling the world like some kind of James Bond villain. Than I see we have to trust the government to keep us safe. Personally I only trust God, my family, & my brothers. I keep myself safe, & I keep my family safe. I'm an honest hardworking lawful citizen. If carding about my family makes me a criminal than I would rather be a criminal than let the ones I love be hurt. I hope everyone else sees the humor in a world where no one trusts the government, but agrees we must all trust the government to keep us safe.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


I was for gun control, until someone reminded me that if guns were banned, the only people with guns would be criminals.

I still don't like guns, but I think we should search for a better solution. Complete disarmament is not the answer, but I'm sure everyone would agree that SOMETHING needs to be done. It's getting out of control.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

The Shameless Opportunism of Gun Control Advocates


No more shameless than CCW advocates and gun lovers apologist coming out after a shooting like this.



Given that all people have the undeniable right to keep and bear arms there should be no reason at all for any "CCW" advocates to speak up at all. Of course, because there are so damned many shameless gun control advocates and anti-2nd Amendment advocates who so distastefully use incidents to push their agenda, you have the other side defending their rights, as well as yours. So, yes. It is more shameless. Much more. Much, much more.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


Don't confuse apathetic with incapacity. The apathetic bother to speak up all the time. Whining and whining and whining, usually, but the apathetic are quite vocal. Your pointing out of your residential status is disingenuous. I didn't bring it up, nor did I argue that you had no business offering your opinion in a US Political Madness debated. You are merely deflecting, hoping to avoid addressing directly the arguments I've made.


SM2

posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 12:19 PM
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So the solution to this situation is to impose more laws to make the acts he committed more illegal than they already were? This is best that the anti gunner can come up with? Hey, he committed hundreds of illegal acts during that few minutes. If you stack up all the charges, its probably in the mid to high two hundreds. So to all of you anti gun people, why would adding a few more laws on top of the ones he already broke do any good what so ever? The hundreds he broke did not deter him, what makes you think that a gun ban would have stopped him? If you really believe that, than you are just naive and have no idea about the real world.

How many items are banned now that you can get easy? Lets see, I can go buy marijuana whenever I want. One could purchase the services of a prostitute with ease. Oh hey, explosives and tear gas are not legal, but he had them didn't he? A firearm can be made with a few simple tools and a little knowledge with items purchased from the hardware store. So banning them will have no effect.

The big scary "assault rifle" comments made here show just how stupid the anti gun crowd really is. Hey morons, assault rifles are already banned! The ar-15 rifle you get from the gun shop are not assault weapons, they just cosmetically resemble them. An assault rifle is a military weapon that has select fire capability. Those weapons are already banned under the NFA (nationa firearms act) and any made after the 1968 (i think that is the correct date) are not legally transferable, meaning you can not buy or sell them. the only way to have one is purchase one made before then and have a BATFE tax stamp for a class 3 weapon, which includes an in person interview with the BATFE and your principal local law enforcement official. A common retail ar15 is NOT an assault rifle it is a semi automatic rifle that looks like the military version. It can not readily be made into an automatic rifle. It would take someone with a machine shop and a degree of skill to manufacture the components needed. Those components would be a sear/disconnect a new lower receiver with the ledge machined into it, some springs and new bolt carrier group. Not something you are going to do in 5 minutes with a set of files.

While this whole mess really sucks, a gun ban would do nothing to curb these occasions. How is it working in chicago? new york city? Drunk driving is banned, hows that working out? Drugs are banned, how that working? If you do not want to own a gun, fine , don't. That is your right. I however want to own guns, So I do, it is my right. That right was the second in the bill of rights for a reason. if you lose that one, you lose all others. The fact that it is a right, is not up for debate any longer. The supreme court has ruled on it. it is a right for private individual ownership. You can no more curb my right to own a firearm then I can curb your right to free speech which allows you to spew the uneducated, senseless, moronic views on gun ownership that the anti gunners voice.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 12:28 PM
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We don't have sufficient public transportation to alleviate the need for a vehicle.


Live closer to where you work,

Gun ownership is granted by the constitution. A driver's license is not. (At least the gov argues that point)



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by SM2
 


So what's your solution? Do you have a better answer, a more effective fix, to this situation, to make sure it never happens so easily again?



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 



Given that all people have the undeniable right to keep and bear arms there should be no reason at all for any "CCW" advocates to speak up at all. Of course, because there are so damned many shameless gun control advocates and anti-2nd Amendment advocates who so distastefully use incidents to push their agenda, you have the other side defending their rights, as well as yours. So, yes. It is more shameless. Much more. Much, much more.


There is a little part of the 2nd Amendment that references the "well REGULATED Militia".


A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.



It says right there in the text...well regulated...so why is it so "shameless" for people to advocate we follow the Constitution.

I understand you and others don't believe that this text suggest any type of regulation...but me and others do. We will never agree...but it doesn't help when you pretend to be the only one that has the "right" position and others are just anti-American "shameless" gun control freaks.

Both sides used this tragic event, and other tragedies, to try to push their agenda. This thread is a perfect example...you are shamelessly using this tragedy to try to push your agenda...you are as guilty as you are accusing others of being.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by roadgravel



We don't have sufficient public transportation to alleviate the need for a vehicle.


Live closer to where you work,

Gun ownership is granted by the constitution. A driver's license is not. (At least the gov argues that point)


Gun ownership is not granted by any constitution and if you are referring to the Second Amendment from the Bill of Rights within The Constitution for the United States of America a simple reading of that Amendment should make it perfectly clear that far from being a granted right - unalienable rights cannot be granted - the Second Amendment is an express prohibition on government.

In regards to your woefully ignorant statement regarding drivers licenses it would be prudent to check out the Ninth Amendment.



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