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The Shameless Opportunism of Gun Control Advocates

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posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


Suprisingly, you and I are agreeing on something. I want to point out that it's important that discussions like these occur. What could we have done differently through our collective power by enforcement of our government to stop or slowed what happened?

I'm not trying to argue that what happened in Colorado could have easily been prevented. I'm trying to figure out what could have made it less deadly. What could we, as a society, have done to make ourselves safer?

If gun control is one of those options it should be discussed. If greater access to mental health resources is required it should be discussed.

I'm glad this thread was made, not necessarily for the point that JPZ is aiming for but the subsequent discussion it generated.
edit on 22-7-2012 by links234 because: grammar




posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by ImaFungi
 





i think i kind of understand your arguement better now,, it is one for complete freedom regardless of consequence?


This is always what the opponents of unalienable rights do when they come to realize they're in over their heads. They get disingenuous and start arguing strawmen arguments. They cannot do anything else, unless they want to simply admit their errors.

Here is my argument: All people, everywhere, have unalienable rights. Among those rights are the right to life. It follows that the right to life comes with the right to defend that life, property and the protection of all other rights. That is freedom, and if you cared so much about consequences, and truly wanted guns eliminated you'd first be calling for governments to lay down their arms. This, of course, is not what you're calling for and instead show a repugnant disregard for the rights of the individual.





I agree,,,,

the world is not an ideal place,,,,

of course ideally it can be,



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by links234
 


Gun control does not prevent these events they do not make them less lethal nothing will there is absolutely nothing that can be done except punish those who have not done anything.

Law makes an act illegal and yet gun control laws make the owning things illegal hence make something illegal for an act that is already illegal.

See?

Precrime, thought crime whatever murder is already punishable by law no amount of laws is going to make one big of difference.
edit on 22-7-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 


Agreed, I think I made a similar observation about state sponsored murder and them getting angry when someone does their jobs.
Either way, an armed society is a polite society.
People used to say things like maam and sir, please, and thank you, now that is not so.



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


You're right, gun control doesn't appear to stop these types of events. America averages 20 mass shootings per year, regardless of any restrictions we have. We can't stop them. We can ease the effect they have though, a point I was trying to make earlier.



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 05:56 PM
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there will allways be some mental freek,, takeing away guns is like not letting teens drive or the number one killer nickateen ,on the other side if every one in the movie had guns and the killer new he would be shot & was determend to kill he woulnt go in shooting he would have blew the place up.it a no win like war just stop trying to punish me for what some one eles did with there gun....how about box cutters the were used to take down two buildings???



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 09:40 PM
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I have got to say, this is one of the best threads for this prickly topic that I've seen in awhile. If I may, I took a moment to get a couple numbers to add into the discussion. Really, just two from the overall source interest me.


Firearms and firearm ownership Depending on what statistics you read:
- There are 250 - 280 million firearms in the US
- 40 - 50% of US homes own a firearm, that's 120 - 150 million people
American Firearms Institute

That page has a great many interesting statistics. The two above really say the whole thing though, don't they? Ban what exactly? From..whom? Which 50% of the country here has the right to order the other 50% of the country on what to do and how to do it with a right specifically written in our Constitution and very recently interpreted to mean precisely what we all knew it always had. The Super Court declared this applies to and for the private ownership of firearms in America. Thus ends the debate, at least within Constitutional limits of law and authority. Everything else takes place outside it, in my view.

Now this guy was as much the mad bomber as he was any shooter. Columbine was the same way. The months of work were building bombs. 99 of them, as I recall researching for another thread here.

Gun Control just isn't relevant with sociopaths or psychopaths. Breaking the law is what we're saying they can't do and all this means for control as a concept. I believe they're well past the point of caring about laws, controls or what society wants when a decision to do something like this is being made.



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 10:30 PM
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Originally posted by ImaFungi

I live in new york city,..,, along with 8 million other people,,, i cant imagine if every single person had a gun.,,... especially people that work during the day,, have children and live in a one bedroom apartment.


If they were responsible gun owners, as all the gun owners I know are, you most likely wouldn't even know it. Owning a gun is a huge responsibility that most owners take very seriously.



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

There is not a single government agency that tracks the number of innocent people killed by police officers...gee, I wonder why.



That would be a good thread to keep a running tally from available information. I'm curious about that figure. I know we couldn't tally them all but the ones that are on the net...



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 10:48 PM
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I didn't read all of the posts in this thread, so this might have been mentioned, and I COULD be wrong, but isn't AMC the theater company that was just recently bought by China, or a Chinese company? They sure seem willing to succumb to fear, prompting them to ban masks, prop weapons, etc.
It might be worth noting that an AMC theater is where the tragic event happened, giving them good reason to enact 'security measures' like no masks, but we should still be careful to how scared we get, leading us to give up even more rights. Is this a precursor to TSA, like I've heard mentioned a bunch?



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by ImaFungi
 
Why not take a look at Cook County, Chicago.

There, they have a law against handgun ownership.

So there must not be any deaths due to gunfire, correct?



i mean anyone with any means of getting a gun can use that gun to kill someone,,,,,

I personally understand that having a gun in your house in case someone breaks in is a good defensive idea, and can make you feel safe,,,,,, i personally wouldnt feel safe if everyone in a city was walking around with a gun on their person,,,,

When I lived in Utah, the dads in my neighborhood took turns monitoring the bus stops for the kids.
We all had C&C permits, and we all took turns. (I had mondays).

Different strokes I guess.

Personally, I felt safer in my town in Utah than I ever did when I lived in Cook County.


lol I lived in cook county and your not kidding, (still in illinois but got the heck outta there lol) and
all the killings by guns are done there by filthy little gang bangers all carrying illegal guns, englewood being #1 on that list.

Chicago
250 murders the first 6 months of this year, 2 million ppl live in Chicago

New york
193 murders in the first 6 month of this year, 8 million people live there

hows the gun ban doing for Chicago again?
edit on 22-7-2012 by hapablab because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by hapablab


lol I lived in cook county and your not kidding, (still in illinois but got the heck outta there lol) and
all the killings by guns are done there by filthy little gang bangers all carrying illegal guns, englewood being #1 on that list.

Chicago
250 murders the first 6 months of this year, 2 million ppl live in Chicago

New york
193 murders in the first 6 month of this year, 8 million people live there

hows the gun ban doing for Chicago again?
edit on 22-7-2012 by hapablab because: (no reason given)


Thank you. No-one ever mentions those two cities where there is a gun ban! Where are the pundits when there is a shooting there?
*crickets*



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 
I donno bout that...sure looks like a thread full of gun nuts making hay here.



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 11:57 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 
I donno bout that...sure looks like a thread full of gun nuts making hay here.



I've never owned a gun in my life and sure hope to keep it that way. Only thing that I can imagine driving me to purchase a gun would be the gun control nuts spitting all over people's rights, and disarming a populace.

Thanks for sharing your brief opinion.




edit on 23-7-2012 by Jean Paul Zodeaux because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux
 
I donno bout that...sure looks like a thread full of gun nuts making hay here.



I've never owned a gun in my life and sure hope to keep it that way. Only thing that I can imagine driving me to purchase a gun would be the gun control nuts spitting all over people's rights. Thanks for sharing your brief opinion.
My pleasure. It's derived from reading about 2 pages of angst-fueled drivel.




edit on 23-7-2012 by JohnnyCanuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 12:14 AM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 





My pleasure. It's derived from reading about 2 pages of angst-fueled drivel.


I'll take angst fueled drivel over lackadaisical drivel any day. Apathy is a large part of the steady erosion of respect for unalienable rights, but of course, you have the unalienable right to brag about your apathy and there plenty of gun owners out there who would stand in your defense...not that you care, but that's the beauty of apathy, no?



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 01:29 AM
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reply to post by ImaFungi
 

the error in your comprehension of this subject lies with this statement ...

complete order or harmony
they are not even similar.
complete order does not involve harmony of any kind, yet, nature is quite harmonious, even with all of its death and destruction.

so, to have complete order, you MUST sacrifice harmony.


whats it called when you want the best for all,, and believe whole heartedly that all can be positive and good
youthful fantasy

so long as one human dares, desires, or exerts authority over another, there will always be chaos.

the defense of oneself is the birthright of every animal, why would we be any different ??
and in whatever method necessary and available ... including all the weapons yet to come.



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 01:43 AM
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reply to post by links234
 


What could we, as a society, have done to make ourselves safer?
as has been said in numerous threads ad nauseum ... heavily tax those who refuse to own a gun ... bum rush the shooter ... learn defensive behavior instead of whining about the guns.

300 ppl in that room and NO ONE challenged this guy ?? why ?
it's not like it was a G-rated movie with 150 8-10yr olds present.

i'm beginning to think the elimination of bayonette training (military) was a bad idea all together.
it seems strange to me that the natural reflex of "fight or flight" has more often than not resulted in fleeing.
what's up with that ??



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 01:47 AM
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Originally posted by links234
reply to post by neo96
 


You're right, gun control doesn't appear to stop these types of events. America averages 20 mass shootings per year, regardless of any restrictions we have. We can't stop them. We can ease the effect they have though, a point I was trying to make earlier.
regarding the bold statement, can you provide a link for this nonsense ... i believe the number is closer to 3 and that's since 2000.
and that also depends on what constitutes a "mass shooting" ... 5 or more ??



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 01:52 AM
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Originally posted by japhrimu
I didn't read all of the posts in this thread, so this might have been mentioned, and I COULD be wrong, but isn't AMC the theater company that was just recently bought by China, or a Chinese company? They sure seem willing to succumb to fear, prompting them to ban masks, prop weapons, etc.
It might be worth noting that an AMC theater is where the tragic event happened, giving them good reason to enact 'security measures' like no masks, but we should still be careful to how scared we get, leading us to give up even more rights. Is this a precursor to TSA, like I've heard mentioned a bunch?
you would be wise to research such info before posting it ... in CO, the Century Aurora 16 is owned by Cinemark.

www.cinemark.com...
Century Aurora
14300 East Alameda Ave.
Aurora, CO 80012




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