The Shameless Opportunism of Gun Control Advocates

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by Honor93

 

are you even aware that when the public did not fear the government as much as they do now, gun ownership was at the lowest levels ever recorded in history?

Are you even aware of how much irony there is in what you just said?

And anyway - I'm not in this thread to argue for disarmament

:-)

not an ounce of irony in my statement, just the facts.
if you aren't here to argue for disarmament, then what ??

perhaps for the purpose of proving to everyone that you are one of those Shameless Opportunistic Gun Control folks or what exactly ??

reply to post by ImaFungi


This has jack crap to do with TV, games or guns. This was a crazy individual who should have been in an institution or at least in treatment. The same day 14 died in a single car crash in Texas. 12 dead is horrible but it has nothing on the 70+ killed in Norway a country will very strict gun control laws. Criminals will always have guns my friend even if they are building them from scratch. Look on youtube if you have any doubt!

We keep our arms because our founding fathers said it is necessary to keep tyrannical government in check and also to protect ourselves and loved ones. You cannot let one lunatic set the standard for the rest of us. We love our movies and we love our guns. We are uniquely American and will die to defend our way of life!

A democracy is three wolves and a rabbit voting on whats for dinner, and you are the rabbit! Last time they tried to take our guns we voted them right out! If you hate America move to China man!

Keep your gun grabbing book burning mindset away from my liberties!

reply to post by WonOunce


You have no arguement. You're comparing apples to oranges now? I call that desperate measures by gun control, government yes men robots. Pretty weak minded if you ask me. ~$heopleNation

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

We keep our arms because our founding fathers said it is necessary to keep tyrannical government in check and also to protect ourselves and loved ones. You cannot let one lunatic set the standard for the rest of us. We love our movies and we love our guns. We are uniquely American and will die to defend our way of life!

I dont know if we should own guns or not. I personally could careless because i don't own one or see the point in owning one. One thing I am sure of though is that when our forefathers wrote this into our Constitution there were no tanks or airplanes and guns in the hands of millions could actually keep a tyrannical government in check. Today our numbers, our voice not our weapons are what help keep the government in check. Arming citizens with some hand guns wont do much against smart bombs and tanks. Look at the middle east. Every person there is armed with an AK47 and I am pretty sure we took over two countries with in a few weeks,.

Originally posted by WonOunce



I dont know if we should own guns or not. I personally could careless because i don't own one or see the point in owning one. One thing I am sure of though is that when our forefathers wrote this into our Constitution there were no tanks or airplanes and guns in the hands of millions could actually keep a tyrannical government in check. Today our numbers, our voice not our weapons are what help keep the government in check. Arming citizens with some hand guns wont do much against smart bombs and tanks. Look at the middle east. Every person there is armed with an AK47 and I am pretty sure we took over two countries with in a few weeks,.

I guarantee you that many in that theater would do anything to step back and have been armed! Many do not just walk through life blindly trusting that God will protect them. Many feel the best defense is to be prepared and would consider the right to be prepared as an inalienable right! Just because you do not feel there is any danger in life is no reason for me to walk through life defenseless!

Thy rod and thy staff do not comfort me, my colt does! And sir had I been there that lunatic may have gotten off a few rounds but would have then been dead or running for his life after!

Also you are tripping if you think Iraqis were armed or put up any kind of real resistance! Just look what a few hundred can do in Syria and Libya! There is no greaterr threat to tyranny than a well armed public! You speak like a fool who has no idea where he comes from!

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


Is the opposite not also possible? One man walks into a room armed. Starts shooting. In the confusion you as an another armed man starts shooting. Then another and another. Soon the room becomes clouded with chaos. Who is the original shooter? How do you know the right man is dead? How do you know your aim is so true you yourself wouldn't cause more innocent people to die? How do people know who to run away from? Vigilante justice is looked down on for a reason, and that's because we are not trained to handle these situations.

reply to post by WonOunce


I heard many say they watched the muzzle flash while they hid! If I can see the flash I can find the target! Many more innocent lives are lost to police officers in this country! Why not address that! Why not address the rampant untreated/undertreated mental illness in this country?

Originally posted by WonOunce
So we are not allowed to use current events to back up arguments now? So I suppose we shouldn't of used 9/11 to attack "terrorists" or use Romney not revealing his taxes to attack his bid for the presidency. ATS is becoming more and more worthless every day.

To the best of my knowledge, every member in this thread that has been steadfastly arguing for the unalienable right to keep and bear arms has not made a single argument - with the exception of Beezer's satire to make a point - that speech or press should not be "allowed". It is precisely because the freedom of press has been used in a manner I find to be shameless political posturing, that I created this thread. The Huffington Post and other media outlets could have waited a period to acknowledge the families grieving over this incident, they chose not to and this is their right, as shameless as an action as it was.

You bring up 9-11 and I say because of the federal governments reaction to 9-11 and how they've handled it, in this site a forum exists for 9-11 alone.

If gun control advocates had shown a period of respectful silence before returning to the control debate, but the pro-Second Amendment advocates used this incident to push their political agenda, I would have called them on it, but that isn't what happened, and anyone paying attention knows precisely what happened.

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


I dont disagree with you on how Police officers take their authority beyond what is given to them. I have been the victim of two unlawful arrests. But when i read that you believe this country has plenty of people with untreated or under treated mental disorders, doesn't this show that possibly we should take the guns out of their hands, or at least increase gun control/gun ownership laws? If you want to own a gun you should always have that right, but there needs to be laws in place to make sure the proper sane people are acquiring these weapons and not the crazy people who have some unknown agenda.

Originally posted by muse7


We're talking about GUN CONTROL. What's so bad about implementing more laws, background checks and overall more CONTROL over high powered assault rifles?

Can you tell me how many LAWS are on the books now, for EVERY aspect of our daily lives? Are these LAWS not broken, everyday ? Common sense should not be dictated by Laws. There are those that want a LAW for everything, we do. Those are the people, that dont care about their rights, or your rights, or mine. Again, If Gun Control Advocates had it their way, the Sticks and Stones Control Advocates, would take their place, in no time..........

reply to post by WonOunce


There are already laws on the books that address this. We need only better enforce the existing laws! You ignore the fact that Gun Laws just effect the lawful gun owner and will never keep a criminal from possessing any! Just look on youtube if you have any doubt that people make very sophisticated homemade assault weapons! You know this guy did alot of planning, and could have fire bombed the place killing many more! What if he had took his time and built a bomb like mcvay? Hell man a couple hundred bucks and I can build ya build a flame thrower that would have done a better job here! We got out lucky man! 12 could have been hundreds! The guy was no idiot!

Watch the Gunsmith of Williamsburg if you can find it. You will quickly see the cats already out of the bag and that no legislation on earth will end this kind of thing only better treatment of the underlying sickness will.

Guns really dont kill people dude! Killers do, and where there is a will there will always be a way!

“Prohibition... goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control mans' appetite through legislation and makes a crime out of things that are not even crimes... A prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our Government was founded.”

Abraham Lincoln

Originally posted by WonOunce
reply to post by Donkey_Dean

 

Is the opposite not also possible? One man walks into a room armed. Starts shooting. In the confusion you as an another armed man starts shooting. Then another and another. Soon the room becomes clouded with chaos. Who is the original shooter? How do you know the right man is dead? How do you know your aim is so true you yourself wouldn't cause more innocent people to die? How do people know who to run away from? Vigilante justice is looked down on for a reason, and that's because we are not trained to handle these situations.

So you have done half your job here: you have identified a weakness. Now, you can choose to leave it there and allow it to simply be an excuse, or you can choose to follow through to the next logical step and address it.

Not being trained is a lousy excuse for allowing yourself to be a victim of another person, or a ward of the state. You know you are poorly trained....so fix it. That way, when you are witness to such an atrocity, you will be prepared to defend yourself and other innocents in the area.

"Vigilantism" is a lynch mob. It is not defending yourself in a critical moment of life or death. Your application of the term "vigilantism" is a grievous misapplication of the word. Would it be vigilantism if someone punched me in the nose, and I fought back to prevent another punch in the nose? Or, as a ward of the state, should I proclaim myself a victim of violence when I report it to them, and then allow them to take care of it for me? I think there is only one obvious answer.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


I absolutely know what happened. I woke up at 6:30am to my local news showing coverage of this. By 7am, the Today Show came on with the shooting as the lead story. Part of the opening was along the lines of, "There was this really bad shooting in Aurora, CO. Mayor Bloomberg says that it is yet another example of why we need to disarm the public". That means he issued that statement before 8am in his local EST. Before any other New Yorker was at their 9am start time, this guy was taking to his soap box proclaiming that in his role of NYC Mayor he knows what is best for the citizens of Colorado, and every other state.

It was an act of arrogance that was only matched the next night, when Obama gave a speech in Colorado and talked about his own public disarmament fetish. All the while we have every single news outlet using the "begs the question" fallacy by making every story about the horrors of gun usage, and then the question of "Should more gun control measures me implemented".

I will not give up any of my guns willingly. If they want them, take them. Put me in jail. I won't comply with any requests there, either. I will be the rock that my government breaks itself against.

People need to understand that the VAST MAJORITY of gun owners will never even DREAM of using the guns in anger.

But if push comes to shove we have to protect our lives! the sick bastard who gunned down all those inocent and defenseless people is to blame! If it's wasn't for guns it would most definitly be something else, perhaps much worse!

It's been said OVER and OVER again that guns don't kill people, PEOPLE kill PEOPLE! and we have been doing so for millenia and it's our RIGHT to be able to defend our selves! Right now you gun grabbers would be at the mercy of ANY Of these shooters and would have no way to defend your self and your loved ones!

In that situation wouldn't you atleast have a CHANCE to defend yourself?

I trully want to kwow where this kid got all the money to get ballistic armor and so much ammunition.

I can't even afford an AR-15, I have an AK-47 for when SHTF.

Talking about SHTF, i'll put food on the table with my guns while you starve and I wouldn't even be nice enough to give you scraps...

Gus are so much more efficient than pencils. although pencils have killed quit a few, and hundred round mags are best of all. I understand the need to keep your gun, and all you upstanding guys, thank God you got em. I'm just worried about those who want to shoot people in a movie theater Seems easy to get. Maybe too easy. Some people shouldn't have these things, don't ya think. Willy Nilly distribution of the equalizer, even in a well regimented militia. seems foolish. It surly needs some discussion Cool headed discussion. We are talking about firearms.

Originally posted by okyouwin
Gus are so much more efficient than pencils. although pencils have killed quit a few, and hundred round mags are best of all. I understand the need to keep your gun, and all you upstanding guys, thank God you got em. I'm just worried about those who want to shoot people in a movie theater Seems easy to get. Maybe too easy. Some people shouldn't have these things, don't ya think. Willy Nilly distribution of the equalizer, even in a well regimented militia. seems foolish. It surly needs some discussion Cool headed discussion. We are talking about firearms.

Yet, every single piece of data proves out the point that the more of the populace that is armed, the less crime (especially violent crime) that there is. Around here, the only time anyone gets shot at is when it is someone involved in the Mexican drug trafficking gig. Those guys shoot each other up all the time around here....and we can thank Eric Holder and his gun control approach for that.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

I will not give up any of my guns willingly. If they want them, take them. Put me in jail. I won't comply with any requests there, either. I will be the rock that my government breaks itself against.

That is why, If I ever move, out of the State, I live in, I am moving to Texas. Something about you Texans, that scream Liberty............

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

I will not give up any of my guns willingly. If they want them, take them. Put me in jail. I won't comply with any requests there, either. I will be the rock that my government breaks itself against.

That is why, If I ever move, out of the State, I live in, I am moving to Texas. Something about you Texans, that scream Liberty............

I cannot speak as eloquently and with the same focus that JPZ does. But I can scream it for sure.

Sometimes to the point that I just look like a raving lunatic.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


time to clean your glasses then .

it dosen't have anything to do with paranoia or nukes, its common sense . why did this so called joker not choose a police station to shoot up ?

common sense , try it .

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by chr0naut

 

U.S. most armed country with 90 guns per 100 people

U.S. citizens own 270 million of the world's 875 million known firearms, according to the Small Arms Survey 2007 by the Geneva-based Graduate Institute of International Studies. About 4.5 million of the 8 million new guns manufactured worldwide each year are purchased in the United States, it said.

Surely? 270 million are a lot of guns. How many accidental and "heat of the moment" shootings are there? You tell us. Then compare those accidents against ladder accidents, or grease fire accidents. Surely? Come back with some data to bear that out.

OK, so the "Most Armed Country" also happens to consistently have the highest number of gun deaths per annum, and in 2000, 55.6% of those gun deaths were suicides.

As noted in Wikipedia, under the heading of "Self-Protection", you will note that of the gun incidents between 1987 and 1990, only 0.2% were in self defence (that's 2 out of every thousand). This would mean that ALL other gun incidents (99.8% of the total number of gun incidents during the period) were NOT self defence and therefore from accidents, suicides, spur of the moment crimes of passion or criminals with guns.

These actual numbers are so startlingly, hugely, different, it totally strips away the arguments of the US gun lobbyists that guns are a practical self defence.

If you want to know why I cannot provide better statistical links, please review the heading "Research Limitations" toward the end of the linked article.

Wikipedia - Gun violence in the United States

As an additional note, when I was a child my next door neighbour murdered her husband with a gun during a domestic dispute. I have first-hand experience of the tragedy that gun ownership can lead to. In this instance he was killed with his own gun, he had no reason to have a gun either, living, as he did, in a quiet Sydney suburb. He died, his wife went to jail and his children went into state care because of his 'dangerous toy'.