NCAA source: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State

reply to post by getreadyalready


People put waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much into football. College and pro. Let the kids get an education. Nobody should be going to college to play games.

Originally posted by groingrinder
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

 

What does the football program have to do with an honest education? Nothing at all.

It is probably one of the top sources of income for the school. Without it, the education will be affected. Either less incoming freshman, less classes offered, higher tuition, etc. It WILL affect the regular students seeking an honest education.

It will also affect the value of that name on the Diploma. For some people, this might be the only time they've ever read about Penn State. Football, and now sex abuse. A diploma from Penn State has dropped in value since the scandal broke. Like it or not, the academics are not always as important as the name recognition.

Actually, it goes even beyond the students. It will affect the entire community and the entire state. Penn State was the top revenue generator in the State in 2008! Source

Penn State contributes more to the state's economy annually than any other industry. In 2008, the University generated $8.5 billion in direct and indirect economic impact and an additional $8.7 billion through business services, research commercialization, and the activities of alumni, for a total of more than $17 billion.

Good. Then let them be a lesson to every program.

Like your little clubby money maker?

Then don't cover up for pedophiles.

Every booster and administrator in every program now has a reason to know that if they turn a blind eye, their candy will get taken away.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I'm thinking they are getting what they deserved to a certain extent, but I do have another problem with killing the program or heavily sanctioning and limiting it. The football program is a HUGE income generator for the school. If the program dies, it hurts every student at Penn State. .

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Actually, it goes even beyond the students. It will affect the entire community and the entire state. Penn State was the top revenue generator in the State in 2008! Source

Penn State contributes more to the state's economy annually than any other industry. In 2008, the University generated $8.5 billion in direct and indirect economic impact and an additional $8.7 billion through business services, research commercialization, and the activities of alumni, for a total of more than $17 billion.

I respect your point of view Getready,

But they should have thought about this when they were trying to cover it all up.

The revenue generated should not be an excuse not to be severely punished.

reply to post by liejunkie01


No, its certainly not an excuse, and they brought it on themselves, but I hope whatever the NCAA does takes into consideration all the indirect influences it will have. I hope they don't kill the program, and I think all the heads that can roll have already done so.

I wouldn't be opposed to some severe long-term punishment. Maybe 10 years or more without TV coverage in any sport. Maybe all sports ineligible for NCAA tournaments. Maybe a record level fines. But, don't kill the programs permanently, just take them back to ground zero, and let them rebuild with some integrity from the ground up.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Actually, it goes even beyond the students. It will affect the entire community and the entire state. Penn State was the top revenue generator in the State in 2008! Source

Penn State contributes more to the state's economy annually than any other industry. In 2008, the University generated $8.5 billion in direct and indirect economic impact and an additional $8.7 billion through business services, research commercialization, and the activities of alumni, for a total of more than $17 billion.

Too big to be punished?

I think the fact that they are so big is the reason that the coverup happened.
The NCAA is the organization that can punish Penn State where it hurts.... their pocketbook. If this hurts the students, that is a shame, but it needs to happen.

If it hurts the state of Pennsylvania, maybe this will be a dandy message that the state-chartered school needs more oversight.

reply to post by butcherguy

Too big to be punished?

Actually, when you put it like that, I hope they DON'T take it into consideration. The University needs to feel it HARD! I'm just hurting for the academic students at the school that might not even like sports.

I'm just curious to know....where are the FACTS? There was nothing concrete and substantial regarding this whole scandal; just a lot of he said, she said. What makes everyone so sure, this case is, as they are telling us? How do we know, even BIGGER fish, weren't behind this? It seems to me, like someone is trying to burn any remaining evidence, to keep us from finding out the truth. Maybe, there's more to this case, than meets the eye. I refuse to believe this is all on the up and up. Not during these corrupt days. Besides all that, didn't they get what they wanted: a conviction??? This is like punishing 1 child, for something another child did wrong. This decision by the NCAA is not just. Penn State never cheated or broke rules to win football games, so why are they being punished?

Sad, sad times we live in. There is NO justice!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by butcherguy

 

Too big to be punished?

Actually, when you put it like that, I hope they DON'T take it into consideration. The University needs to feel it HARD! I'm just hurting for the academic students at the school that might not even like sports.

You are right, this will be hard on students and uninvolved faculty. It is a shame that they have to suffer over the misdeeds of a few.

The state will be hurt too, as you stated. Nothing that we can't come back from though. Maybe some day, a new football program will keep academics in the forefront, and actually build a winning team. We can hope.

Originally posted by SpittinTruth
I'm just curious to know....where are the FACTS? There was nothing concrete and substantial regarding this whole scandal; just a lot of he said, she said. What makes everyone so sure, this case is, as they are telling us? How do we know, even BIGGER fish, weren't behind this? It seems to me, like someone is trying to burn any remaining evidence, to keep us from finding out the truth. Maybe, there's more to this case, than meets the eye. I refuse to believe this is all on the up and up. Not during these corrupt days. Besides all that, didn't they get what they wanted: a conviction??? This is like punishing 1 child, for something another child did wrong. This decision by the NCAA is not just. Penn State never cheated or broke rules to win football games, so why are they being punished?

Sad, sad times we live in. There is NO justice!

One thing seldom discussed in this Penn State caper is the probability of steroids and other enhancement techniques.

The politicians involved have been tacky at best.

From the NDNATION.COM: Take note, Pennsylvania residents, as Attorney General, Governor Corbett stalled the investigation of Sandusky in an effort to avoid any negative backlash in the gubernatorial campaign. If Corbett didn’t pull a Paterno, Sandusky might have been arrested long ago.

This article should also clear up the conspiracy theories from this board which suggested the AG’s office waited for Paterno to get the all time wins record before bringing charges against Sandusky. As always in Harrisburg, it’s all about politics.

The question it leads to is, what was Sandusky’s involvement with narcotics, specifically steroids, and does that shine some light on why he had such preferred status on campus? It hasn’t been a secret in Pennsylvania athletics that steroids are, uh, a well known part of the PSU football program, but nobody has had the balls to track that story down before. Maybe this is a start:

Steroids at Penn State?

If PSU does not get the NCAA Death penalty than it is an "unprecedented" slap on the wrist!

reply to post by xuenchen


Yes, Corbett was involved too.

Then there are still questions to be answered about Ray Gricar, the DA that didn't press charges against Sandusky in '98.

reply to post by BABYBULL24

Dale Hanson (he broke the SMU scandal way back in the '80s) said that they are planning on blocking them from "some bowl games" and they will lose some scholarships. Hardly the death penalty for the program. I feel personally invested in this because in the past I have run sports programs. I think this would be a good time for the NCAA to come up with some new rules and regs that address this issue. That way in the future there will be checks in place. Maybe they need to consider a hotline for reporting abuse, that way you don't have to worry about your boss covering it up.

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Actually, it goes even beyond the students. It will affect the entire community and the entire state. Penn State was the top revenue generator in the State in 2008! Source

Penn State contributes more to the state's economy annually than any other industry. In 2008, the University generated $8.5 billion in direct and indirect economic impact and an additional $8.7 billion through business services, research commercialization, and the activities of alumni, for a total of more than $17 billion.

Too big to be punished?

I think the fact that they are so big is the reason that the coverup happened.
The NCAA is the organization that can punish Penn State where it hurts.... their pocketbook. If this hurts the students, that is a shame, but it needs to happen.

If it hurts the state of Pennsylvania, maybe this will be a dandy message that the state-chartered school needs more oversight.

yeah that's the spirit kill em all innocent or not they need to pay!!!!!.

i'm unsure which has become worse in our world, the criminals or the witch hunt that follows them. maybe you should see if they can bring back the inquisition. hell yeah everybody in that state should pay for the actions of 4 or 5 people, that will teach them.

society is broken and this issue, among others, just shows how far backwards we have come.


getreadyalready pretty much summed up my feeling on the matter so i wont say more on it.

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle



Lets talk about "rights" and "personal responsibility".

It seems we live in a world where people want to be labelled as victims. We live in a world where people are too cowardly to take on any risk, and want to seek out ways to use the legal system to indemnify themselves against all possible risk. A key piece of evidence is the recent requirement by our Federal Government, and the 50/50 split of popular support, that all citizens must purchase insurance. Insurance is popular. Formerly, you could not drive a car without it. Now, you cannot breathe or exist without it. It is business seeking to indemnify themselves.

When I, as a private citizen, make a choice, I (should) accept the risk that comes with that choice. I certainly would be all too happy to accept the reward. Take the recent Occupy movement. People who never once took the risk of investing money, complaining about people who DID take the risk and are reaping reward. Of course, we could point out that the people reaping the reward sought to indemnify themselves against their bad decisions and risk, and received bailouts for their efforts. But that is not every single wealthy person. This matters not to Occupy, and what has turned int the public at large. Just this past weekend on ATS I had a discussion about the current trend of wanting to "redistribute" wealth.

This relates to those "poor kids" who are "victims" of Sandusky and the programs bad choices because we are now lamenting how "unfair" it is for them to have to suffer from the stain of the perversions happening in the field house. And I would not agree that it is unfortunate. However, to suggest that you give a free pass to any entity to save the "poor kids" who chose to go to that school sends the wrong message entirely. It is, in essence, saying that we find it acceptable that perverts shield themselves behind the poor and downtrodden. And it tells those students that they will be indemnified against their unfortunate choices.

I would recommend any student concerned about this to transfer to another school. And, if they choose not to, they can always sue for losses. But those students, and their unfortunate negative effects, should have nothing to do with how Penn State is dealt with.

Having said that, Penn State is not a person. It is an entity. Penn State should recieve no punishment. They should, however, receive a complete overhaul of policies, being forced to make it impossible for something like this to happen again. I would also suggest that their entire athletic program be removed (at least for a period of time). It was the Athletic Directors failure to act that caused this. Until the school is able to ensure the continuity of the academics, they should not be allowed to worry about remodeling an athletic program that was poisoned.

I would also say that programs the nation over should be reevaluated, and processes put in place.

The NCAA has been punishing schools for the actions done by players even if that player hasn
t gone to that school for years. USC was handed bowl bans years after Rggie Bush was drafted in the NFL. It doesn't make sense but it happens. The reason being is that these schools are on a power trip and refuse to take action when they should. Ohio is being punished for the actions of Terrelle Pryor who was drafted in 2011, they will not be allowed to play in any bowls game in 2012, even though this player isn't on the team.


Why should Penn State be any different? THEY COVERED A CHILD RAPE SCANDAL.


Until the NCAA changes how they hand out punishments and the schools actually take responsibility for thier actions, these punishments will continue. I don't agree with how the NCAA conducts business, but this is how it is...get used to it.


If schools didn't pour so much money into men's football then all of this would not matter in the least. The fact that this has become such a money maker is the reason why people have a hard time justifying this decision. Oh, I'm sorry the shcool is going to lose a good chunk of change...but hey....they let an old man rape young boys on their campus...knowing full well that it was happen just to save their reputation and pocket books. CLASSY.

Again, I do not agree with how the NCAA brings down the hammer...but if they're going to for the choices players make, they need to for the choices coaches make as well. The team should continue to have football, as it will still generate revenue...but it should not be allowed to play in any bowl games or play on any national TV games for a few years. My reason being is that it will only draw more attention to the negative aspects that are currently surrounding the shcool. Taking away scholaarships doens't affect current players or students, so taking away a bunch of those doesn't matter either. Students graduating from high shcool will have a choice to go whereever they wish to further their education, and this scandal should not make them change their minds if they were thinking about attending there in the future.

LIVE UPDATE.

NCAA has the authority to handout punishment. -Dr. Edward J. Ray (NCAA Executive Xommittee Chairman). As a result of the evidence provided to them, the leadership failures by the leaders of Penn State for years has breached the code of conduct that these colleges/NCAA would like to be known for.

Mark Emmert (NCAA President) Goal is not to be punitive, but to establish a culture that will not be focused on athletic programs, but the safety of students/people associated with colleges. Sanctions go as follows, 60 Million dollar fine to establish endowment that serves abused childrens (1 years football revenue), 4 year bowl ban, loss of ten scholarships for 4 years, and any entering/returning football players will immediately be able to transfer and play (eligibility required), the NCAA vacates all wins for football team from 1998-2011, the university will need to serve the community in a program of their choosing for 5 years, and upon conclusion of the criminal proceedings all of this will be changed depending. The death penality was discussed, but the sanctions need to implement cultural change would have harmed those that had nothing to do with the rape scandal.


There was one or two more sanctions and things, but I could not for the life of me keep up with the live feed.

honestly after the NAACP defending NAMBLA, I just dont trust them anymore.

HARSH. While watching their explanation for what they decided to do, I full understand where they were coming from. For once, the NCAA actually made sense...to a certain extent. Punitive and constructive punishments handed down was a good call in my mind.

Serious sanctions indeed, looks like PSU and allother college programs will have a good 5 years to think about covering their a##es to save their precious sports programs.

reply to post by MmmPie

Mark Emmert (NCAA President) Goal is not to be punitive, but to establish a culture that will not be focused on athletic programs, but the safety of students/people associated with colleges. Sanctions go as follows, 60 Million dollar fine to establish endowment that serves abused childrens (1 years football revenue), 4 year bowl ban, loss of ten scholarships for 4 years, and any entering/returning football players will immediately be able to transfer and play (eligibility required), the NCAA vacates all wins for football team from 1998-2011, the university will need to serve the community in a program of their choosing for 5 years, and upon conclusion of the criminal proceedings all of this will be changed depending. The death penality was discussed, but the sanctions need to implement cultural change would have harmed those that had nothing to do with the rape scandal.

I think this actually sound pretty lenient. Nothing "extreme" considering the circumstances.

On another note, abandoning those wins means BOBBY BOWDEN is once again the winningest coach in college football history!!! WOO HOO!

Its a terrible way to have gotten there, but I'm still happy for Bobby.