George Zimmerman: “It was a part of God’s plan for me to kill Trayvon”.

That’s not Mr. Zimmerman’s exact quote. It was actually paraphrased by an overzealous Zimmerman-Hater in part to slander Zimmerman, but most likely to gather hits on his website. Even though that isn’t exactly what he said, it has nonetheless re-ignited passions and discussions. However, this post isn’t going to be about the Zimmerman case, but moreso a general observation of the religious mentality.

This was Zimmerman’s alleged ‘quote’, “It was a part of God’s plan for me to kill Trayvon”.

People’s instant response was, “No that wasn’t a part of God’s plan. God wouldn’t do that“. Well if you believe in God’s Divine Plan then how can you really disagree? Trayvon was killed that night, wasn’t he? God has a divine plan doesn’t he? And everything that occurs is a part of that plan, correct? Isn’t that the reason for the age-old adage, “God works in mysterious ways”? Perhaps Zimmerman killing Trayvon was one of those mysterious works of God?

I posed this question to a user on a message board and his response had to do with human free-will and what-not. This was my response to him:

So let me get this straight. God knows everything, right? God created the universe knowing full well how it would end, and the same goes for us. He created each of us knowing even back to the beginning of the universe how each of our individual lives would come to an end. But he created us anyway so that we can exercise choice? Its a choice to us even though he already knows every choice we’re going to make. What counts is that it seems like a choice to us, right? Even though that’s not really choice.

That’s isn’t choice. That’s not freedom. We’re merely playing an illusion. We’re like actors in God’s great big movie, playing our roles with no way to actually change anything. Everything will be as God ‘predicted’ and there’s no way to change our fates. That’s not free-will. To me it sounds more like someone reaching into an empty bucket trying to find the last bit of b/s excuse to make his religious belief sound plausible.

I never received a reply back even though I saw his user-name under the ‘Currently viewing this topic’ list for quite some time afterward.

Its funny how when posed with a question such as, “why does God allow innocent people to suffer” (like the recent Theater shooting in Aurora, Colorado), many religiously-inclined will say that we cannot possibly understand God’s ways. His ways are ‘higher than ours’ etc etc etc. But then they will turn around and pretend to know how God thinks, now presumably understanding God’s ways. That’s when we get responses such as, “No, God wasn’t involved in that. That was human free-will” There is always a reason why God cannot be the culprit when something terrible occurs, but isn’t it funny how when things go right, then God was the one who did it?

Why couldn’t the Trayvon killing or the Colorado shooting all have been a part of God’s grand mysterious plan? The answer is as clear as day. Man created God, and in telling us what is and isn’t a part of God’s plan, man is adding more facets and complexities to the God character. It is no different than an author who pens the story of his main character. Just as Jason Bourne was subject to Robert Ludlum’s story-plot, God’s actions/purposes will change depending on each person’s needs.


artisticexpression.wordpress.com...

I posted the whole thing. It should be okay to post it all since its my blog and I wrote it.

Say you time travel to the future...

You wittness what happens...

You come back...

Is it your fault all the bad stuff that people did that you knew about?

Did they have any choice in the matter after you observed the event?

Kinda the same thing.

We make this world the way it is, not God.

Christan theology is real clear about this.

God gave us paradise, we said naw thanks man Ill go this on my own.

Thats about it so far.

God is always right, is all seeing and all knowing because we made him that way.

Simple really.

There have been a lot of killers who said God told them to, or it's God's plan that they kill. And if you read the OT, the God in there killed a great many people too. so what gives? Are these killers channelling the murderous aspect of God and using it to control their minds into killing people? Is it God's plan that we kill?

Originally posted by benrl
Say you time travel to the future...

You wittness what happens...

You come back...

Is it your fault all the bad stuff that people did that you knew about?

Did they have any choice in the matter after you observed the event?

Kinda the same thing.

We make this world the way it is, not God.

Christan theology is real clear about this.

God gave us paradise, we said naw thanks man Ill go this on my own.

Thats about it so far.

edit on 22-7-2012 by benrl because: (no reason given)

Time Travel and Free-Will

If you travel to the future and then return to your past with foreknowledge of events to occur, does that render free-will meaningless? At first it may seem that way, logically it makes sense. It really does. But after a second or two of thought, you begin to poke holes into this argument.

If I had traveled to the future, it would not make me an omniscient being. I would know only what I was exposed to. Just as I do now. It does not mean that I would know every decision that every human being would ever make. It does not mean that I created the universe. This argument is essentially no different than having foreknowledge in our current world. This makes this time-travel argument meaningless. What is the significance of time-travel to the argument when an equally-impressive argument can be made about the present?

For instance, does being a placed referee tasked with giving the victory to Team A instead of Team B mean there is no free-will? The person who paid off the ref to cheat the team has foreknowledge that Team B will lose. Does that mean there is no free-will? Of course not. There isn’t even any guarantee that team B will lose because there is always that slim chance that Team B will win despite the odds against them. Furthermore, who really is to say that if I return to the past, that I would not be able to alter some of the events thereby proving free-will does exist even if I, as a time traveler, have foreknowledge? There again is that slim-chance of change. With God, there is no slim chance. His foreknowledge is unchangeable.

Don’t try to say that if I return to the past that I wouldn’t be able to change what I ‘know’ will happen. Because if I’m able to return at all, then that means the future is changeable. It would also mean that there are different time-lines and that I exist in other universes. It opens up a whole can of worms really. Its just a bad argument in my opinion because it relies on an unknowable thing to try to prove another unknowable thing. Kind of like using the bible as evidence for the bible.

Originally posted by AlexG141989
There is always a reason why God cannot be the culprit when something terrible occurs, but isn’t it funny how when things go right, then God was the one who did it?

I can't speak for everyone but I'm actually the other way around. I tend to question God's ways when they are not my own and then when things go "right", I tend to forget all the times He has showered me with blessings. I guess focusing on the negative is fundamentally human nature.

If god cared enough to be a part of our world and was omnipotent and had everything happen for a reason then in fact god is to blame for the death.

Originally posted by DarkKnight21

Originally posted by AlexG141989
There is always a reason why God cannot be the culprit when something terrible occurs, but isn’t it funny how when things go right, then God was the one who did it?

I can't speak for everyone but I'm actually the other way around. I tend to question God's ways when they are not my own and then when things go "right", I tend to forget all the times He has showered me with blessings. I guess focusing on the negative is fundamentally human nature.

well then it looks like you're certainly in the minority.

Originally posted by DarkKnight21

Originally posted by AlexG141989
There is always a reason why God cannot be the culprit when something terrible occurs, but isn’t it funny how when things go right, then God was the one who did it?

I can't speak for everyone but I'm actually the other way around. I tend to question God's ways when they are not my own and then when things go "right", I tend to forget all the times He has showered me with blessings. I guess focusing on the negative is fundamentally human nature.

No, blaming Yahweh is human nature, when people do not want to accept responsiblilty for their own actions. Nobody made Zimmerman squeeze off rounds at the guy. No one made Trayvon end up in the wrong place at the wrong time either. What truly happened, we will never know. The only person who can dispute those events is laying under 5 feet of dirt. This is one of those cases where you can do nothing but let Yahweh who sees all things, deal with the man. If Zimmerman is guilty, he'll be made to deal with it on that day.

Listening to "he said, she said" hearsay accomplishes nothing but preventing that family from getting closure and moving on with life.

TextWhy couldn’t the Trayvon killing or the Colorado shooting all have been a part of God’s grand mysterious plan?

reply to post by AlexG141989


To answer your above question, I believe It could have been. It is a fact that every living thing will die sooner or later. I guess that would be a fact wouldn't it? Then I am led to understand that God's plan is that every living thing will die. If you believe in God then that is His plan isn't it?

Most manufactures build their products with a life expectancy. They know that one day that product will die (so to speak). Now the manufacture may build 100 wash machines in one day and he knows the average working life of that original machine is about five years. So he also knows that counting repairs that the machine will last another five years but then cost effect comes into play and sooner or later the machine winds up in the junk pile after ten years. Now that's average and not written in stone. Maybe a flood or fire or even abuse will see that machine in the junk pile in six years. The owner doesn't really know and neither does the manufacture. Why do we not know? Because we abuse things and we do not have foreknowledge and we are subject to the elements of tomorrow's happenings.

God builds 100 people in one day. He is the manufacture. The life expectancy of those 100 people is 75 years but with repairs they can average another five years. Sooner or later those 100 people will be in the junk pile. Why? Because nothing lasts forever on this world. Here is the difference between the wash machine manufacture and God the manufacture. By His foreknowledge of each individual He knows the exact day, hour, minute, and second that His product will last. That is believed to be foreknowledge. Does He control the life expectancy of His products? That is up for debate. Some will say yes and that would be called predestination. Others will say no simply because they have proof that a lot of good people have perished in various ways long before their life expectancy. Those that say yes will believe that if you do something for God then he will do you all kinds of favors including health, wealth, and longevity. Now that is well to believe but eventually that person will wear out and die regardless of how many favors he or she does for God. So to be truthful about this, God has an average within His foreknowledge.

But then what about that village in Russia that must live in squalor and meet underground to worship this God who is their manufacturer? The same God that gives you the edge in life takes it from the unfortunates. No no no! That is not right is it? Now along with this foreknowledge that God has, He can then plan that destination of that individual or so it is believed by some. That would be God's plan. When He intervenes in a event and controls that event then it is His plan. Why? because He could intervene by His foreknowledge and that would be called predestination. So in between interventions of certain events would be called free will of the person. God does not intervene in all aspects of an individual's life and if He did then that would not be free will or the knowledge to do good and evil. That would be control and is not His plan. Then what exactly is His plan for His product called people?

It is believed by some that God's plan is simple. It is one four letter word called "love". God manufactured and turned you loose so that you may learn to love Him and all of the rest of what He made. He gave you X amount of life in order to do just that. If you do learn then you are invited to live forever in a new world that will never end. If you fail to learn then you wind up in the junk pile.and are not invited to live in His new world. That is called choice but is not predestined by God. It is by your choice with no strings attached. Nothing to buy or favors to do. Simply learn to love Him and His creation. All of the rest is whistles and mirrors. So you see you are better that that wash machine or any other product that any manufacture could possibly make. That is God's plan.

Now in the case of the shooter in CO or even George Zimmerman. Both could be by foreknowledge of God but not predestined by God. Some will believe one way and others another way. My belief is that God, by foreknowledge, knew who would die and who would not die but He did not predestine those who died to die in the manner that they died. Yes He knew that everything will die it but did not necessarily cause it.to die in the manner that it did die. If He did do that then it would be called control. The ones who caused it were the ones who did not learn to love. That's just my opinion.

Originally posted by autowrench
There have been a lot of killers who said God told them to, or it's God's plan that they kill. And if you read the OT, the God in there killed a great many people too. so what gives? Are these killers channelling the murderous aspect of God and using it to control their minds into killing people? Is it God's plan that we kill?

Maybe he/she needs to break some eggs to get the evolution that is needed. But seriously if we do look at god as the nondual reality called ONE that includes all parts (souls) then we do know that god is as a whole is a shizofrenic personality who is trying to get all his parts to evolve so that he/she can become more harmounious as a whole.

So if you do not want to be nice for the sake of you soulbrothers and soulsisters the please be god for gods sake. He/she deserves more evolved souls so that he/she can have it easier and be happier as he/she see how we enjoy the creation.

reply to post by AlexG141989

Originally posted by AlexG141989
Why couldn’t the Trayvon killing or the Colorado shooting all have been a part of God’s grand mysterious plan? The answer is as clear as day. Man created God, and in telling us what is and isn’t a part of God’s plan, man is adding more facets and complexities to the God character. It is no different than an author who pens the story of his main character. Just as Jason Bourne was subject to Robert Ludlum’s story-plot, God’s actions/purposes will change depending on each person’s needs.

I agree 100%. God has become the scapegoat for the horrible things people do. Man is the author of the God Story and can mold and form his personality and desires in whatever way suits them. I see it all the time. It's a cowardly and psychotic stance.

When anything wonderful happens, it's because God wanted it to happen.
When anything terrible happens, it's "God's Plan"... (or God's will)
When a person does something despicable, they say the "Devil" made them do it (In direct contrast to God's will, apparently)
And when a baby dies and someone wants to blame God, his followers rush to his defense...
Someone gets sick, or a nation experiences a natural disaster, and it's "punishment" from God.
None of it makes ANY sense. I

People use God as a buffer between themselves and the responsibility of living this life. God is a cop-out.

The Christians will tell you god knows everything before it happens.

So he allowed it to happen.

Thus, sounds like god is responsible.

Under Christian dogma