Zero 0 is not a neutral number representing a space between positive and negative and I can prove it

We know that a positive (+) and a negative (-) make a negative (-), correct?

The only way to get zero is to put a positive (+) against a negative (-), so that would mean, following this logic that zero would have to be negative.


[+] and [-] = [-]

+1 and - 1 = 0 (so it is negative)

+5 and - 5 = 0

and so on...

Just wanted to point this out because before a lot of people here were believing such things.

reply to post by arpgme

A positive multiplied by a negative yields a negative answer.

A positive added to a negative does not necessarily yield a negative answer.

You started off with a multiplication principle, then tried to apply it to addition. The value of zero is neither positive nor negative.

TheRedneck

Zero is not a number, it is a concept. It is the concept of nothing. If I have 4 apples in this hand and myother hand is empty how can I add something to nothing. 4+0=4 but it really is a silly question.

OP 5*-5=-25. All of this is simply a convention. Maths is full of conventions. It does not matter whether one does the additions first or the multiplications first as long as we all follow the same convention.

P

You miss the concept of what zero really is, zero is not an actual number it is the absence on any number (or item) it is neither negative or positive, it is in fact NOTHING

I tend to think of 0 as a color when trying to describe it to someone. White is the absence of color, just like Zero is the absence of numbers. Just an easy way for me to explain why 0 is the way it is, it just is!

Math is full of weird loops holes and their are countless ways of getting from point A to Point B.

Originally posted by PrinceDreamer
You miss the concept of what zero really is, zero is not an actual number it is the absence on any number (or item) it is neither negative or positive, it is in fact NOTHING

WHOA. We must have thought the same thing at the same time! Are you watching golf right now by chance?!

Originally posted by MmmPie
I tend to think of 0 as a color when trying to describe it to someone. White is the absence of color, just like Zero is the absence of numbers. Just an easy way for me to explain why 0 is the way it is, it just is!

This is the RGB color code for white. 255 is the maximum that any color can possibly have as a percentage within any color blend. The RGB code 255. 255. 255. for white suggests that the presence of all color is white.
Black, on the other hand, has an RGB color code of 0. 0. 0. suggesting that the absence of all color is black.

Red - 255
Green - 255
Blue - 255

rgbchart.com...

Don't mean to be an accuracy bitch, but this should keep you from making that statement in a room full of people some day who may just judge you harshly on the basis of that statement alone. No sense in giving people like that any ammunition. I get the concept, and just wanted to make sure you got the facts right if you use it again.

5-4 is not a negative number

sorry for the one lin

reply to post by NorEaster


I understand with what your saying, it really depends on perception though. There are a lot of nitpicky posters here though, haha.

Color Theory

Here's a nice write up on Color Theory that explains how mixing all colors can produce white/black and removing all colors can create black/white.


Sorry for derailing the thread, just trying to clear up my previous statement!


BACK TO 0! Keeping color theory in mind, and thinking about 0 in terms of color. Then zero is both the absence of all numbers and the addition of all numbers. DEPENDING on how it is being used/looked at.

Zero is definately an enigma.

if white is the absence of all colour, how come you can refract white light into all the colours? i'm pretty sure colour and light are intrinsically linked...

also, the addition of all the numbers is infinity, also an interesting concept, also the exact polar opposite of zero.

if you want to consider zero a negative number, that's fine, it should make absolutely no difference to any equations i've ever encountered. go for it

What definition of zero are we discussing? Zero as a numerical value? Zero as a representation of true nothing? Zero has an infinite numerical value, and graphically it represents the base point from which all our numbers expand out from. Zero also represents the point that all numbers are expanding towards, meaning zero is like a start/finish line in that it is only one physical spot on a track and yet it represents two points (the starting and finishing points of the race)

If a zero falls in the forest can one hear the sound of it's clapping a hand in a bush? I mean, really, finding the Zen of zero? Get a life.

Originally posted by ktrip
if white is the absence of all colour, how come you can refract white light into all the colours? i'm pretty sure colour and light are intrinsically linked...

also, the addition of all the numbers is infinity, also an interesting concept, also the exact polar opposite of zero.

if you want to consider zero a negative number, that's fine, it should make absolutely no difference to any equations i've ever encountered. go for it

White light contains all colors. Darkness is the absense of light and therefore color as well, as we need light to formulate our eye's color pallete. This being stated, it seems that blackness is truely colorless. Ok so that is emitted light, now there is also reflected light, which is what gives us our colors. The only true "black" is the pupil of our eye, and this is because it absorbs the white light and all its colors. The pupil however is absorbing the light and color not emitting it, hense the reason our pupil is black and all the color we see is found within bright rays of white light.

I AM GOD.
i teach the military the power of zero.
if you enjoy working with plus and minus signs, i highly recomend this book for the NOISE THEORUM, which has nothing but plus and minus and infinity seal and divide and multiply and the formula is beautiful and looks like a butterfly, the book is called
AIAA VOL. 199 STRATEGIC MISSILE TARGETING AND DEFENSE.
and it is in the local downtown library here in los angeles, so check it out if you can.
at Cal State University library I once studied the book THE PHYSICS OF IMMORTALITY.
there IS only ONE major illustration in it.
it is Initial Singularity.
Initial Singularity is equal to zero.
i am SG1.
Stargate Iron Eagle.
look for user kenny on disclose.tv
i am the GRAND UNIFIED THEORIES.
profess me.
celebrate me.
i am HE.
I work with time.

Originally posted by earthdude
If a zero falls in the forest can one hear the sound of it's clapping a hand in a bush? I mean, really, finding the Zen of zero? Get a life.

Funny because light and sound are the same thing, they are the result of our brain's interaction with our universe and its' interpretation of our existence by evaluating the waves of energy that surround us. Light is a wave of energy in that energy is on an atomic scale (ie: photons). Sound however is much more elemental it is the flow of energy on a chemical and elemental scale, as sound is the result of the vibration caused by the waves of energy traveling through the air and colliding into our ear drum. Heat and touch are governed by the same principal, that energy is traveling through the matter that engulfs us (water/air) and as the energy travels through us we evaluate it.

Originally posted by MmmPie
reply to post by NorEaster

 

I understand with what your saying, it really depends on perception though. There are a lot of nitpicky posters here though, haha.

Color Theory

Here's a nice write up on Color Theory that explains how mixing all colors can produce white/black and removing all colors can create black/white.


Sorry for derailing the thread, just trying to clear up my previous statement!


BACK TO 0! Keeping color theory in mind, and thinking about 0 in terms of color. Then zero is both the absence of all numbers and the addition of all numbers. DEPENDING on how it is being used/looked at.

Zero is definately an enigma.

edit on 22-7-2012 by MmmPie because: Slight addition to post.

Did you know that light and hue work differently with it? If you have all waveforms of light, you get white light, if you have all possible hues you get black hue. That's because hues reflect and absorb the light. Since all colors are present in the hue, all light is absorbed and none reflected, so we "see black". If there is no hue at all, we "see white" because all of the wavelengths are reflected.

....just thought you may like that.

Zero is often spoken of in terms of infinity as well. We can't divide by zero because as the denominator gets smaller and smaller in magnitude, the quotient approaches infinity, if the denominator reaches zero, it is undefined due to the concept of infinity. So, it's basically the multiplicative inverse in a sense.

The way we think about zero in mathematics and science is "balance" as opposed to "nothing". This comes from the additive inverse property, whereas the multiplicative inverse property uses 1. If you don't add an magnitude to something, it doesn't change. If you don't multiply by any magnitude, it doesn't change.

Of course as a digit, it's used merely as a place holder for a power of ten in our decimal number system with the numbers 1-9 (we don't have a "number 10" even though we're base-10, just as there's no 2 in base-2).

....I'm going to stop there or I'll go on forever and get all crazy math-i-fied

"... one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs." — Robert Firth.

Here's hoping that no one gets that joke, other than me

0 is the representation of chaos. When everything is in zero its in chaos. For it to be neutral there would have to be harmony.

It is said that 0 is where string theory thrives at, but this is also related to the chaos theory. Where everything is random, and happens by chance. But in a way, it is a mix of postive and negative, but its not a neutral place. Ive pondered on this before, and the only thing that came to mind is chaos. I recomend you watch videos on string theory, and some in chaos theory, you may be unto something though.

Originally posted by KennyDurazo
I AM GOD.
i teach the military the power of zero.
if you enjoy working with plus and minus signs, i highly recomend this book for the NOISE THEORUM, which has nothing but plus and minus and infinity seal and divide and multiply and the formula is beautiful and looks like a butterfly, the book is called
AIAA VOL. 199 STRATEGIC MISSILE TARGETING AND DEFENSE.
and it is in the local downtown library here in los angeles, so check it out if you can.
at Cal State University library I once studied the book THE PHYSICS OF IMMORTALITY.
there IS only ONE major illustration in it.
it is Initial Singularity.
Initial Singularity is equal to zero.
i am SG1.
Stargate Iron Eagle.
look for user kenny on disclose.tv
i am the GRAND UNIFIED THEORIES.
profess me.
celebrate me.
i am HE.
I work with time.

very reminicent of erad3 aka jerod loughner
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by NorEaster


I agree with you there. White is all colors, Black is none. It is non-sense to say otherwise.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by arpgme

A positive multiplied by a negative yields a negative answer.

A positive added to a negative does not necessarily yield a negative answer.

You started off with a multiplication principle, then tried to apply it to addition. The value of zero is neither positive nor negative.

TheRedneck

Thank you for bringing this to my awareness! I must have been confused. Now I see how it makes sense that zero can be a neutral point again. It was just a little misunderstanding I had.

reply to post by arpgme

Zero has no value, but I understand your perspective. In some cases it can be assigned a negative value as in binary or "off".