Off-duty cop shoots, kills son after mistaking him for intruder

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro

Originally posted by SpittinTruth
Again, someone please explain to me, why we need automatic weapons?

Matter of fact, why does ANYONE need a firearm???

You choose to either have uninfringed rights to keep and bear arms, or not. If you choose to infringe on those rights then where do you draw a line?

You do not believe that.
You have already let them draw a line and you are fine with it.

Originally posted by Cosmic911
reply to post by habitforming

 

I really cannot wait for the usual ATS 2nd amendment brigade to march in here and point out how much better it would have turned out if the son had a gun on him too.

This is a very odd statement. I understand the first portion of your post but you lost me here. I don't see how that can be any intelligent rebuttal.

You must not read the same ATS I do where there is a large population that believe the solution to every situation is more guns, everyone armed, old people, crippled, children, mentally handicapped. If everyone had a gun it would all be even. They apply this to EVERYTHING whether it makes sense or not.

Shoot first, ask questions after. Bad programming.

reply to post by supertrot


Guns are bad MMkay

Originally posted by benrl
Its a tragedy...

It illustrates it can happen to anyone, even someone trained in the proper use and application of force.

All cops are not bad, and reveling in the death of this mans son as an example of "stupid cops" is shameful.

No it can't! How can someone trained in the proper use and application of force shoot someone they haven't properly identified? A person properly trained would NEVER shoot blindly at a target. My shotgun has a 500,000 candle power xenon light on it for that very reason. If I'm woken up in the night, in a daze, I want to be damn sure I can see what I'm shooting at.

At a hotel in Jacksonville, Florida one night, I heard my door being messed with, I was naked in bed sometime after 1 a.m. I jumped up, grabbed my .45, and waited behind the door as it swung open. When the person walked on past, I put the gun to the back of her head and grabbed her extended arm. The MAID started apologizing in Spanish, and speaking a little Spanglish between us, I found out she had been living in that room unbeknownst to the Hotel management. She would sneak in after midnight when the front office people were asleep, and then get up, and be ready to work the next morning. I DIDN'T SHOOT HER! I had every right to, but I didn't.

My younger brother had moved out of my parent's house, and one night he wanted to sneak in and grab something without waking them, as he snuck around downstairs, my Dad heard something, grabbed a gun, and went to check it out. HE DIDN'T SHOOT HIM! He identified the noise, and realized it was my brother.

That same little brother decided to pull a prank on my wife when we first got married. She was only 19, and had just gotten her first gun. She'd only been shooting and learning about guns for a couple of weeks. My brother came over and started beating on the door disguising his voice, and demanding to be let inside. She grabbed her S&W 9mm, and stepped to the side, and opened the door. As he barreled in, she smashed the gun to the back of his head and screamed at him to get on the ground, which of course he did, while also begging her not to shoot, and saying, "It's me xxxx, I'm so sorry, it's me!" I got a kick out of that one actually, but if a 19 year old girl with a couple of weeks of gun training, home alone at night in a bit of a scary neighborhood, can maintain enough composure to get the drop on her intruder and NOT SHOOT HIM, then surely a cop can do it.

NO EXCUSE. NONE! NEVER. NO WAY. You just don't shoot someone that you haven't yet identified and determined their intentions. This is NOT an accident, it is pure negligence.

Originally posted by habitforming

You do not believe that.
You have already let them draw a line and you are fine with it.

For many years I saw that line of law intruding and being constantly redrawn like the tide advancing and eroding the shoreline. Many years I fought that tide but fear and loathe that it is now a tsunami whose wave will not break and subside out over the dessert outside Las Vegas but go on to consume the nation in its destructive force.

Perhaps I am not a good soldier because I wish to retire from battle. I chose personal autonomy and no longer live in the US. I fought in the social revolutions of the 60's and 70's and many today feel that did not bring us a productive outcome. Rights to bear arms was never a great priority to me but was always among all those rights I was unwilling to surrender.

The current generations will have to select their own liberties to battle for now or continue to fight for them all.

I can't even begin to imagine the loss and tragedy here. This poor man will surely relive those few moments and the evening leading up to it, a million times over...if he doesn't do something rash to himself. I see nothing here but bottomless loss and tragedy.

For some who just can't ever...ever....get off the attack mode for Cops, Guns, Americans and whatever else? Just once.. C'mon. A man made the worst mistake a human can imagine, given the end result. Cut him a break here. I don't think the political questions of gun control or defense reaction to an intruder will do anything here but make those raising it look...petty. (for lack of a better term..within T&C )

A boy is dead and a Father pretty well died right there with him. That's the story I see here.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Just for the record, the OP didn't say he was dead yet, and I haven't seen any updates. Hopefully he won't be dead.

reply to post by getreadyalready

Thank you for the clarification. I figured the title was literal and accurate.. err.... Yup.

Hmm... It did say what I thought it said...

State troopers say a police officer in New York shot and killed his son, mistaking him for an intruder. Read more: www.foxnews.com...

Is there something here we don't know and Fox got wrong? He isn't dead?

reply to post by habitforming


Got ya! Hey, I love guns just like everyone else on here. In fact, I believe in the four main food groups: Fire, Firearms, Chainsaws, & Booze. However, I think what they fail to see is that with more guns comes more non-sensical gun control and legislation. This actually hurts us in the end. The people who make gun control laws fail to see the ignorance that these laws do prevent criminals from having access to them. The only way to truly do this is to ban them completely, but they would still find a way. But we have to use our brains first...then make for ramming speed! (sorry I was in the Navy once upon a time).

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Dam, you're right. Something I read earlier said he was transported to the hospital, but it didn't mention his condition? Or, maybe all these threads are starting to run together. Probably that.

Sorry for confusing you.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Hey, no problem... I'm in the same boat and if you were quick, you'd notice a line changed in my post before realizing..wait a sec...it did say that! lol.... Heck, it's been a wild couple of days in Blogville. I think many of us are a little ragged... Colorado has been a hell of a story to follow and try to keep accurate with.. In that way, I feel really bad for anyone who does something really GREAT right about now. A guy could invent the cure for cancer, almost, and for the bad timing, we'd hear it as a footnote to the news show.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I'm not defending his ignorant statement, but 37 is nowhere near being a child. We can be somewhat childish at that age but still doesn't qualify us as kids.

reply to post by Cosmic911


No...just no.
Nothing I wrote was about gun control. If you have an agenda, stand up on your own posts and write what you want. Do not use me as an excuse.
More guns in this situation would not have done any of that.
It would not have created laws.
It also would not have helped.

reply to post by supertrot


But despite there being cammandos, it doesn't mean this guy is one of them.


I love the hypocrisy of these response how all the people scream for the right to defend their homes, but an officer is an intruder and shoots his son, and he is just a dumb cop.

And don't say that you would do better because some people don't want to wait till a burgler has you in plain sight to shoot you first.

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro

Originally posted by habitforming

You do not believe that.
You have already let them draw a line and you are fine with it.

For many years I saw that line of law intruding and being constantly redrawn like the tide advancing and eroding the shoreline. Many years I fought that tide but fear and loathe that it is now a tsunami whose wave will not break and subside out over the dessert outside Las Vegas but go on to consume the nation in its destructive force.

Perhaps I am not a good soldier because I wish to retire from battle. I chose personal autonomy and no longer live in the US. I fought in the social revolutions of the 60's and 70's and many today feel that did not bring us a productive outcome. Rights to bear arms was never a great priority to me but was always among all those rights I was unwilling to surrender.

The current generations will have to select their own liberties to battle for now or continue to fight for them all.

edit on 22-7-2012 by Erongaricuaro because: (no reason given)

Um...you have more rights as a gun owner in this country now than you did under Bush.
I do not see anything here about gun control.
I still have all my guns.
If all you do with your guns is sit around lamenting the loss of them, you do not need them anymore anyway.

What you do not have is the right to own certain chemical, biological, nuclear weapons. You only get to buy certain types of guns. You have gladly accepted that.

reply to post by habitforming

I'm really anxious for a thread which this will fit in and I had quite a bit here before realizing..topic wise...uncool doesn't touch it on this. However, you can find why many of us are downright concerned by Obama's own words as cited and source on Wikipedia under Obama's Social Policies. His words make clear at several points and across many years that we own our guns over his personal objections and feelings 100% to the contrary.

Here is waiting for a thread to get more in depth on his own words..and how often he's expressed the desire to outlaw guns...outright in the case of handguns, or restrict to where it's a moot point.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


You still have your guns and Obama has done nothing about that but make it easier.
Wikipedia is not a source so I cannot really take you too seriously.

How did the son get into the motel room without a key? Don't 99% of motel doors lock automatically behind you?

Something doesn't add up here. Just a feelling taht there may be more behind this story

reply to post by habitforming

yeah.. Wiki is not a source. I may as well have that carved in granite and on tablets I carry with me for how hard College hammers it. In THIS case...if you'd looked, you'd note that this isn't as air headed as most Wiki things are and each statement of importance is specifically cited IN-LINE to the source and specifics of the statement.

That seemed worth a small exception to the sourcing rule I follow myself, most times. It's Sunday and I don't feel like spending an hour or more to source the sources I know are valid just to prove a self-declared anti-gunner for a president really IS anti-gun.

Sometimes proving the obvious can be too much...and if Wiki with full backstopped sourcing in this example isn't good enough...then Okay, I guess we'll disagree and some will just be left to think Obama is a big fan of guns and loves our private ownership like a member of the NRA himself.