Witness: Someone let gunman inside Colorado movie theater

Not sure if I can cross post but I just came up with this in another thread:

If you all want to figure out if it was just one gunman or an accomplice, you have to know precisely at what point during the trailer the gunman started firing.What I'm getting at is the time involved to:

A) walk to the door and leave the theater
B) head towards the car
C) unlock the car
D) retrieve all the gear from the car
E) put on all the tactical gear
F) Retrieve the weapons
G) double check weapons, gear, etc everything in order?
H) walk back to the exit door and enter the theater

How long for all of this. 5 minutes? 10? 15?

Now assuming it was the lone gunman theory and he propped the door open
1. At what point during the trailer did he get up?
2. At what point during the trailer did he come back?

From what I understand, he opened fire at the same time during the trailer scene of the movie theater shooting.
The official trailer for Gangster Squad is 2:31

The Gangster Squad shooting happens at 2:00.

Is this enough time to execute A-H? If not, then there must have been an accomplice.

According to one witness, the shooting occurred during the Gangster Squad trailer. And according to the OP's witness, during the opening credits. While this may seem like a small detail, it's not. It's very important to pinpoint the exact time.

I agree with the poster above me. He most definitely had help. I guess we'll hear something about cell records sooner or later to corroborate the witnesses story.

Ok, suppose he acted alone and he was the one who "got the phone call" and left the door open. How in the world did he know where to park the car? You don't know what room you'll get until you get the ticket.

I recon that part of the parking lot may have been empty since it's on the back of the theater, easy to park where ever you want. But even after getting the ticket, he must have known where auditorium 9 was in order to park his car right next to the door.

If there was a second person, that person could have flagged him down to the right spot.

I'm just saying a second person would have made this a lot easier, otherwise this guy was a freaking mastermind to plan everything with such detail.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
Gosh you people are slow as hell. We were talking about this witness testimony over 24 hours ago in this thread which contains a video of an interview with the witness who recounts seeing this man receiving a phone call and going to the emergency exit to take the call. The witness does not specify if the guy came back to his seat, BUT he also doesn't specify whether the guy left through the emergency exit and didn't go back to his seat. So as far as I can tell it's unknown at this point whether the man in question did return to his seat or if he did leave through the exit door long enough to equip him self.

More importantly however... there have been multiple updates concerning a possible accomplice, which we have been discussing in this thread. Of particular interest is this article, which reports the police have received threats from a man claiming he will cause harm to many people if Holmes isn't released from prison. The messages were traced back to the phone number of a man who was a known associate of Holmes. But now police are saying this associate is most likely not guilty, and they believe some one routed the message through his phone number to make it appear as if he sent it.

Clearly there's something more going on here, there's more than meets the eye, and all the mounting evidence suggests he had help. Everything about this suggests he had help, from the weaponry to the sophisticated explosives in his apartment, including chemical explosives which trigger when mixed together. They explosives were so "sophisticated" (in the words of the police involved) that they couldn't disarm them manually, and they were forced to resort to controlled demolitions, which many of us were watching live several hours ago. He didn't do all this alone, he had help... but they want you to believe he did it all alone, that is the story which seems obvious, the story which everyone is suggesting and their theories are all variations based on that assumption (ie the guy on the phone must have been the killer). Think outside the box.

And just for the record here is my theory on this incident as I've developed it so far. Now this is based on the assumption that there were two people involved, and that the man on the phone did indeed go back to his seat.

It appears to me as if this guy on the phone was merely setting up the necessary entry point. The call he received was most likely to give him the green light and tell him to commence the operation (wedge open the exit door).

Assuming I'm correct so far, I don't think it would be too much of a leap to assume the killer was hypnotised in some way (yes it has happened before and lots of research has been conducted in this area). Perhaps he was used as a mindless assassin so that the real people behind the killing can't be traced.

It would also explain why he simply waited for the police to arrive. That right there is a huge red flag. 99.99% of criminals will attempt to flee the scene of the crime as to avoid being arrested and sent to prison.

It seems completely irrational, even for a mass murderer, to simply hand him self over. If we are to believe he was possibly hypnotised in some way, it might also help to explain why he would tell them about the explosives.

There are two possibilities I can see. The first, is that he was "programmed" to hand him self over without a fight and inform them about the explosives (for what ever reason). The second may be that he snapped out of it and decided the best thing to do was wait for the police and tell them about the explosives.

If he snapped out it earlier than was intended, it might also explain why he was wearing full body armor. It's possible he was programmed to have a shoot out with the LEO's but he came back to reality sooner than was expected.

reply to post by daniel_g


Good point, but isn't it easy enough to enter the theater of your choice once you get past the ticket handler? Personally I think he had help, but I'm just being the devil's advocate.

reply to post by adjensen


This was backed up by news reports that he did purchase a tkt then exited the theater via the emergency door, left that propped open, went to his car and dressed and returned via the emergency door. No helpers, no co conspirators, just one lone maniac looking to make a name for himself.

Originally posted by karen61057
reply to post by adjensen

 

This was backed up by news reports that he did purchase a tkt then exited the theater via the emergency door, left that propped open, went to his car and dressed and returned via the emergency door. No helpers, no co conspirators, just one lone maniac looking to make a name for himself.

But what if you're wrong about that? To overlook the accomplice theory means you're letting someone else get away with murder. (if you were a cop)

Originally posted by karen61057
reply to post by adjensen

 

This was backed up by news reports that he did purchase a tkt then exited the theater via the emergency door, left that propped open, went to his car and dressed and returned via the emergency door. No helpers, no co conspirators, just one lone maniac looking to make a name for himself.

And what's that news story based on? You guessed it, the testimony of this same guy who said a man on the phone went to exit door to take his call (see my last two posts for link to interview with witness). What he didn't say however, was that the guy even left and went outside. He didn't specify whether the man left the cinema long enough to equip himself, or if he went straight back to his seat after taking the call. The news story you are referring to simply makes the assumption that they were the same person, which might or might not be the truth. If you read my posts on the last two pages however, you will see that there is mounting evidence to suggest he had one or more accomplices (such as threats from another person demanding the release of Holmes). Stop buying into the mainstream version of events, their version is merely a bunch of assumptions and guesses just like ours.

Um, he could have easily scouted out the theater prior to this shooting. Could have seen a movie already - could have found out which theater the movie was playing in. It doesn't take that long to put on gear - in the Army, we could put on full MOPP gear in under 30 seconds. And he didn't "double check" his equipment very well.. since his deadliest weapon jammed when he tried to use it.

It was already said quite definitively that he bought a ticket, exited and propped open the door, and came back in through that door and attacked. I don't know if he told them, or if they ticket folks recognized him (having red hair and all), but I heard the "bought a ticket and propped open the door" on the radio more than once here in Denver the day it happened. From CNN:

A law enforcement source working the investigation told CNN that the gunman walked into the movie theater after purchasing a ticket.

After the movie was under way, he went out a rear exit door, propping it open, and gathered weapons before re-entering through the door, the source said.

Once you buy your ticket, you can go into any theater you know. It sounds like he let himself in.

I'm on pg 2 so far, and I wanted to pose a question before I forgot....I apologize if it's bene discussed since then.

What about the two room mates we've bene told about? If he had a booby trapped apartment, and they were not in on his plans...how would one cover something like this up? The smell of explosives/gasoline alone would raise some eyebrows, unless they were in fact aware of the situation and/or helping him.

An thoughts on the room mates and their role in any of this? I'm thinking if there are in fact three perps, we have shooter, guy who opens the door, and get away driver for the guy that opened the door. No sense in them sticking around any longer than they had too. If this guy was funded by an outside source, they could also just be two guys that were in need of some cash and this Holmes guy had an out for their financial woes. This is of course just a theory and may not even be that practical.

If this is the case, two other psychos are on the loose.

Too bad that the witnesses didn't say if the man on the phone had red hair. If not, that excludes him from being the killer. It was reported that Holmes had dyed his hair red.

Also too bad that people don't pay attention to shoes... As the killer may of had time to throw on gear, it doesn't sound very efficent to change his shoes. The killer was descibed as all in black. Now if the phone man was all in black, I may buy the lone gunman senario.

I watched live coverage shortly after the event. The egress alarm was sounding from the emergency exit. They didn't deactivate the alarm until after several hours past. Now it was a loud alarm, people would have noticed even in a theater.

I don't think the killer acted alone. There are too many flags pointing to an improbible situation.

reply to post by fleabit

It was already said quite definitively that he bought a ticket, exited and propped open the door, and came back in through that door and attacked. I don't know if he told them, or if they ticket folks recognized him (having red hair and all), but I heard the "bought a ticket and propped open the door" on the radio more than once here in Denver the day it happened. From CNN:

He didn't tell them that, they probably arrived at that conclusion after the witnesses involved in the incident told them they saw a man pop open the emergency exit door. According to the public video testimony we have available, a man on a cell phone took a call and went to the emergency exit, but it's possible that guy was an accomplice simply wedging open the door for the other guy to get in. We can't know for sure because the guy doesn't say whether the person actually exited the cinema for any reasonable amount of time, or if he came straight back to his seat after finishing the call. I assume the police might have more information but at this point we simply don't know, and trusting MSM sources like CNN is not a good idea.

Witness talking about man on phone:
www.youtube.com...

Witness talking about gas canisters coming from two separate places:
www.youtube.com...

Article about death threats demanding the release of Holmes:
Threat Sent To Aurora Police Says Let Holmes Go

People are coming up with ingenius ways to prop a door open -small rocks, duct tape- but WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE? Surely a detective would have found a piece of tape over a latch or a small rock near the emergency exit. P.s. The rock couldnt be too small otherwise the force of the door would not hold. So until we see evidence of a door wedge of some type, IT IS PURE SPECULATION. A helper is more plausible given the lack of evidence of a door prop.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


I'm still trying to piece Corbin Date's testimony regarding the exact time he saw the "caller" head to the door. He said 15-20 minutes into the film but this doesn't sound right. Maybe he meant 15-20 minutes after entering the theater. Here's an excerpt from his interview.

The witness said: 'As I was sitting down to get my seat, I noticed that a person came up to the front row, the front right, sat down, and as credits were going, it seemed like he got a phone call.

Ok, so now we know the projector was rolling when the call was placed. It can't be the credits for Batman because we know it happened during a trailer. Also, we now know the call wasn't placed while the lights were on, which would have given ample time for the shooter to go out and change then return.

This means all of this happened in a span of 2 minutes. Not enough time for a lone gunman.

reply to post by FlySolo


You may find this video helpful. It's another interview Date did with NBC News. It's actually a lot clearly, with less background noise. And he seems to talk more about the time frames involved:
video.msnbc.msn.com...

EDIT: is this also Corbin Date or is it another guy?

I keep thinking about the supposed "cell phone" guy. What if it was the shooter and cell phone call was real and his "trigger?" I've read the "manchurian candidate" theory batted around a few times and every time I read about it I think about the cell phone call.

I'm just posing a theory, we don't know what really happened...probably never will.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Thanks. I haven't heard that one yet. I find it odd how the newscaster never asks him anything about the second guy. You would think that's an important thing to follow-up on. And Date's does confirm my conjecture. He said he continued to watch the trailers

I can't find the show times for last Friday but I'm assuming the movie was scheduled to start at 12:30 am. 15 minutes to get your seat before the trailers sounds about right.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Yes, that's him

possible,, But I just want to know why with all those people ,, Eevery one has a cam on cell,,
And the only video we have seen of this event is really the 2:44 sec loop,, or segment of ,, on every station,
even on the net,. wheres the rest of it.. ?
Wheres the tweets?

reply to post by FlySolo

Thanks. I haven't heard that one yet.

No prob, also take a look at the edit I made to my last post.

I find it odd how the newscaster never asks him anything about the second guy. You would think that's an important thing to follow-up on.

Yes I found that quite suspicious too. It's a shame he didn't ask anything about that, because in the other video when the female reporter asks him that question I don't think he catches exactly what she says, and he doesn't specify whether he thinks they were two different people.

But I know one thing... we need to be able to analyze his phone call record to see if he was faking the call, if he even made a call, and if so who it was from. I'm sure the police have already done that, and they'll make some bs excuse for why they can't tell us.