Christians, can you really call yourselves, a Christian?

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

You do not have to violate any of the 10 commandments. Since Paul did not violate any of these laws, nor did he violate any of the hundreds of other laws found in the levitical code.

I never said you did, those are imbedded in christianity's principles and ideals. You don't have to convert me man, that happened 2 years ago but thanks anyways!

I am not trying to convert you simply change your philosophy about sin. I am warning you that the message you are teaching, although you don’t know it, is dangerous. I'm sure if you knew how harmful what you say is you would stop. Your message traps you in your sin, you know you are going to sin. You will become a self fulfilling prophecy. And you teach others the same message.

The truth is here and it is found within the pages of the bible. This is not my testimony but his.

All men sin, are all born with the desire to follow the flesh. All of us are the liar, the thief, the disobedient, the anti-Christ. But Christ said I forgive you for your ignorance. He said believe in me and I can free you from this desire to follow your flesh. I can put to death this sinful desire and raise you a new man with the mind of Christ and the heart of God.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

We do not become incapable of sin after salvation.

Agreed. As long as we remain in these corrupted bodies we will be subject to sin. That's the entire purpose for getting new bodies like the angels, that aren't corrupted. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak, so we need strong flesh.

Exactly! We can, and do, still sin. The difference is that we feel bad about it, and repent, and we try harder not to sin. We know we messed up, and we don't make excuses for it.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

I am calling you to holiness but you refuse to believe that you are being called to be holly. The bible says you can know a teacher by his fruit. The fruit of the lesson you have been taught is sinful man left with no way to escape his sin. The message that I am bringing is a message of love where all men can be freed from sin by the power of the Holy Spirit. What man is bringing you good fruit, "the good news"?

Why would I want to be a plant?

1 John 1:8-10 - "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

Originally posted by sacgamer25
You have believed a false interpretation of this passage, which is based on a poor interpretation of what is written in Paul's letters.

No, I do not.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
I am not saying that I have no sin, sin lives in my flesh. But I live by the spirit through faith. Do I still sin? Yes. But it is no longer the willfully disobedient sin that I did before I was saved. Nor am I addicted to the things that I was once addicted to. I have been set free from my desire to sin. So when sin enters my thoughts through the desire of my flesh I now have a choice to follow the Holy Spirit and listen. Before I was addicted but now I walk away.

Sometimes you can walk away. Sometimes, you will sin. We have a choice, and we have guidance, but that doesn't mean we won't ever fail. If you think you are incapable of sinning, you are mistaken.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
The one area that is hardest to control is our reactions. Anger, Lustful thoughts, and things still enter the mind and my eyes or mouth will act almost out of instinct. After all I told myself these things were ok for 38 years. But no longer do I see myself as incapable of defeating sin in my life. Through the power of the Holy Spirit I have overcome my desire to sin, now I must overcome my reactions that cause me to sin. I may never get it perfect but I will never stop trying.

Exactly, People Do react, and they DO mess up, even those that are saved. We have more help than the lost, but we can still fail.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
You have believed that you have to sin.

No, I have not believed any such thing, and never stated anything like that.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
What the bible says is you have free will.

Gee, really??? *sarcasm off*

Originally posted by sacgamer25
You say that all must sin the bible says all will sin. You believe that you learn a lesson from sin, I say you can only learn the truth if you love. If you sin, it is by choice that you have sinned. God does not make anyone sin, but instead through his foreknowledge knew we all would. This is why he sent us his son, to provide us with a path to him. The path is love.

We are born into sin, and the Bible does state that. It also states that all HAVE sinned. Nowhere does it state that we will never sin again once saved. It says we will know better. I have already given you verses for that. I never stated that God made anyone sin. I stated that we choose to, and have since the beginning. I am well aware of why He came. That was me He bled and died for.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
I believe the best way to understand what I am saying is one can put to death sin everyday and choose to live righteously. However you will never fully understand unless you believe.

That is how we are supposed to try and live. I never said otherwise. I simply said we won't always succeed. What is it you think the prodigal son story was for? Anyone reading my posts should know what I believe. I have been His for a long time now.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
We do not have to sin, we choose to sin. What is known by God is all of us will choose to sin. Thank God through his son we have been given a way out.

Indeed! For every temptation, there is a way of escape. Sometimes, we don't take that way, and that's when He comes after us, to lead us back.

I don't think we disagree as much as you think we do. Seems more a matter of wording.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

We do not become incapable of sin after salvation.

Agreed. As long as we remain in these corrupted bodies we will be subject to sin. That's the entire purpose for getting new bodies like the angels, that aren't corrupted. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak, so we need strong flesh.

Exactly! We can, and do, still sin. The difference is that we feel bad about it, and repent, and we try harder not to sin. We know we messed up, and we don't make excuses for it.

As long as you are trying you will fail. This is a true statement.

If you would allow Christ to become your life than it is no longer you directing your life but Christ. Since we know Christ was withought sin why do you deny him the power to raise you and teach you to overcome sin?

If these words were my own they would be open for debate. But these are the words found in scripture so that all may know that I am just a man. No different from you, except the Christ I believe in has far more power than the one you believe in.

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

We do not become incapable of sin after salvation.

Agreed. As long as we remain in these corrupted bodies we will be subject to sin. That's the entire purpose for getting new bodies like the angels, that aren't corrupted. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak, so we need strong flesh.

Exactly! We can, and do, still sin. The difference is that we feel bad about it, and repent, and we try harder not to sin. We know we messed up, and we don't make excuses for it.

As long as you are trying you will fail. This is a true statement.

If you would allow Christ to become your life than it is no longer you directing your life but Christ. Since we know Christ was withought sin why do you deny him the power to raise you and teach you to overcome sin?

If these words were my own they would be open for debate. But these are the words found in scripture so that all may know that I am just a man. No different from you, except the Christ I believe in has far more power than the one you believe in.

If you want to claim that the Bible says this or that, prove it. Chapter and verse. Allowing Him into our lives does help us to overcome sin, but that will not be a perfect process in this life. I have shown the verses that prove this. You have shown, well, nothing but your opinion.

By the way, assuming you know anything about my faith is foolish. You have no clue.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

John 8:34, 36 Whosoever 34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

I John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

Rom. 6:16-18 16 Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living. 17 Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you. 18 Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living.

I John 5:4 4 For every child of God defeats this evil world, and we achieve this victory through our faith.

1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

I have already posted these for you. If I am wrong that the Christ cannot set you free from sin than what do these passages say?

Christ is waiting to teach you to be like him. But you refuse to believe what is clearly promised if you believe.

James 1:5-8 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.

If you do not believe you can be set free than you should not expect to be set free. The choice is yours, you have free will.

If I did assume something incorrect I appologize. I am simply reading what you yourself have said and replying based on what I believe you are saying.

reply to post by sacgamer25


None of that says that we will never sin again while in these bodies. Many verses have been shown to you, proving that isn't the case. We don't become perfect, flawless creatures upon salvation. That doesn't mean we don't have salvation. That final freedom comes after we die, or He comes again, when we receive a new body, free of sin entirely.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


No one who is born of God will continue to sin. It doesn't get any clearer than that.

You have not shown me one verse that says that we cannot become like Christ. You fail to provide me any verse that shows that God cannot help us defeat sin. Show me your verses again. This time be willing to open your ears. I will answer your questions. And I will support all answers with scripture for as long as it takes for you to believe.

If you want to understand freedom from sin than ask everything you need to ask. I am not here to hurt you or to lie to you. I only wish to remove the veil from your eyes. I am not asking you to believe me, I will use God's words.

If Anyone else reads this and wants to believe please ask as many questions as you need. Test me to see if I am for real.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

No one who is born of God will continue to sin. It doesn't get any clearer than that.

You have not shown me one verse that says that we cannot become like Christ. You fail to provide me any verse that shows that God cannot help us defeat sin. Show me your verses again. This time be willing to open your ears. I will answer your questions. And I will support all answers with scripture for as long as it takes for you to believe.

If you want to understand freedom from sin than ask everything you need to ask. I am not here to hurt you or to lie to you. I only wish to remove the veil from your eyes. I am not asking you to believe me, I will use God's words.

If Anyone else reads this and wants to believe please ask as many questions as you need. Test me to see if I am for real.

edit on 11-1-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-1-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
1 John 1:8-10 - "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

We do not become incapable of sin after salvation. Peter wasn't cast into Hell for claiming,, as Jesus said he would, that he didn't know Jesus. There is no doubt that Peter was saved before that time, and saved afterward as well. Peter repented of that sin, and Jesus forgave him.

As for pointing out an error to another:

James 5:19-20 - "Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins."

There is more:

Hebrews 12:6-11 - "For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby."

God chastens, disciplines, believers that stray. The prodigal son was part of the family, and was still accepted when he turned from his sin and back to his father. The lost sheep isn't cast into Hell, but the Good Shepherd goes seeking that one, and brings it back.

You want me to believe you, over what the Bible, and the Holy Spirit tell me? Not happening. Not if you disagree with them. Your words do contradict the Bible, and thus contradict God.

See? Verses. 1 John 1:8-10 (above) makes this very clear.

Romans 6:23 tells us: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." This means that we will sin, but that, because of His shed blood, we are forgiven for those sins. yes, it is easier to avoid sin after salvation, but sins will still sometimes occur. Hence the story of the prodigal son, that you refuse to address. Christians can overcome sin, this is true, but that doesn't mean they will never again commit one. It means they won't continue to do so.

John 10:28 - "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."

Luke 15 - entire chapter

There, you can see the prodigal son parable, spoken by Jesus, and more at the start, regarding what Jesus does with a lost sheep. The sheep are in His flock, meaning those already saved. I can't make this any plainer. Jesus Himself said that He would seek after, and bring back, believers that stray/are lost.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


You have provided the standard church verse that continues to be used out of context and misinterpreted. Now again I will post these verses.

John 5:19 Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

John 3:3-73 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.” 4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!” 5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

John 8:34, 36 Whosoever 34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

I John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

Rom. 6:16-18 16 Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living. 17 Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you. 18 Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living.

I John 5:4 4 For every child of God defeats this evil world, and we achieve this victory through our faith.

1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

We need to understand that God has made a way for us to overcome sin in our life. These verses do not imply that you can simply sin less, but that you can completely overcome sin. This could not be accomplished by mans way, the law, but can only be accomplished by Gods way Grace.

John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

2 Thessalonians 1:8-12 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

11 With this in mind, we constantly pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of his calling, and that by his power he may bring to fruition your every desire for goodness and your every deed prompted by faith. 12 We pray this so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.

Luke 12:47 And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating.

2 Timothy 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

Luke 13:24-29 “Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the master of the house has risen and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us,’ then he will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from. Depart from me, all you workers of evil!’ In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out. ...

Mathew 7: 21-23 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

All of these verses agree with what I am about to explain to you. None of them agree with what you are telling me.

1 John 1:8-10 - "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

James 5:19-20 - "Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converted the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins."

Anyone who makes the claim that they do not have sin in them, or that says they have not sinned is a liar, just like it is said. This verse does not imply what you think it does. Try to open your mind so that you may understand what I am about to say. The unsaved man not only lives with sin he is incapable for overcoming it. However, the saved man has been provided a way out. I am not making the claim that sin does not live in me. My flesh still desires the things of this world, thus sin remains in me. But the Spirit of the one who overcame sin lives in me. The better I get at allowing myself to die each day and allowing him to become my life. (Give up my will to the spirit) the closer I get to righteousness. I fully believe that one day with the help of the lord that I will fully overcome sin.

For everyone who reads this, I am not struggling with sin in the normal context of the law. Those things are no longer in my way. The sin that I am talking about is, small reactions that are out of anger, which I am now capable of immediately recognizing and cutting off before it takes hold of me. I still struggle with giving people complete forgiveness, which is probably where the anger comes from. When the Holy Spirit has taught me how to better to do this I believe that I will be able to stand up against anything if I remain in him and him in me.
If God is for us who can be against us?

You continue to believe in a weak God, and a powerless Christ. The church has taken the power of the cross and manipulated its meaning ensuring that you must continue to go to church and tithe to prove you believe in God. This is not what Christ commanded. He said love your neighbor. Love does not sin; anyone who sins is against love. Sin is anti-Christ. All of us who commit sin are Anti-Christ because we have failed to do the one thing he commanded. And the church not only approves of sin it teaches you that there is no way out.

What am I saying that is impossible to agree with? Who is bringing you "Good News". There is nothing good about being trapped by sin, so that you know there is no way out until death. The Good News is a way for you to overcome sin has been provided by the Cross. Believe in the power of the son so that you may also overcome your sin. I have given more than enough scripture to prove that if I have not proven myself right I have at least proved that you are wrong.

The most difficult thing for most Christians will be to let go of their religion and embrace the truth. You can hold on to your religion and live a life trapped in your sin. Or you can believe a man who is teaching you a more powerful, meaningful, life changing, message of freedom. Who's God do you wish to follow. I found my God within the pages of the bible. The interpretation I received came from the Holy Spirit. The interpretation you have received comes from a man who cannot feed his family if you do not believe him.

I have no motives other than to bring you into the light of the son. To show you the door to freedom. It is as if you are standing in a dark room with many doors. So far the church has opened one of these doors, but there door does not lead to freedom. I have brought you to the door that brings freedom; I have even placed your hand on the doorknob and backed up my claim with scripture so that you know the message is not from me.
I make the claim that I have been taught by the Spirit, here are the verses that support the truth of what I am saying.

1 John 2:26-27 26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

1 Corinthians 2:10 "But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God."
John 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I have said to you."

JOHN 16:13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth...."

I am a man who makes the claim that the Holy Spirit has reveled a message to me. The message I bring you is far more powerful than the church you know. The message I bring eliminates the need for church as we know it. All men can be filled with the Holy Spirit. All men can die to themselves and be raised with the mind of Christ and the Heart of God. Why would anyone want to dispute this? This is the path to love and peace; sin cannot lead to love or peace. Sin can only lead to separation. We are not called to be sinners, for we were born sinners, we were called to live righteous lives.

Continue to live in your sin or believe in the power of Jesus to free you from your chains. You have free will the choice is yours. Anyone who does not believe in God's one and only son, will be condemned to live in their sin until they die. You can die a physical death today and be raised a spiritual body today. It is by the power of the cross that this is possible.

reply to post by sacgamer25

We need to understand that God has made a way for us to overcome sin in our life.

We must accept our sins instead of pretending our demons don't exist. You cannot learn if you cannot see the positive in your flaw. You are only as bad as what you take from your experiences.

These verses do not imply that you can simply sin less, but that you can completely overcome sin.

We must recognize that sin is unnecessary, but first, we must learn the nature of sin. These things are best comprehended through direct experience, so that we have the raw data. We must learn the benefits of dark and light, for both are necessary to define each other.

How can you truly appreciate joy if you've never had anything but joy? How can you truly understand love if you've never seen what love isn't?

This could not be accomplished by mans way, the law, but can only be accomplished by Gods way Grace.

Incorrect. To limit your options is to limit your potential. Experience is necessary for education, and limiting your experience will only hinder your progress. Only someone who is afraid of what you can do would give you conditions. Your "God", if he does indeed exist, is afraid of us. He is afraid of his children, the most cunningly chaotic species he has ever designed. It's not the same simple game of chess anymore.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I used to believe that there was much to be learned by doing what is wrong. But what I have come to realize is you can only start to learn when you choose to do what is right. If someone is trapped by their sin they are incapable of seeing what is right. It is only the man that has sacrificed his desires for love that will ever find the truth. And when one finds the truth they can realize that all lessons learned in sin were born from a lie. But all lessons learned in love were born from the truth. What can man learn from a lie?

If he is afraid of me, why has he given me the knowledge to be like him?

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

There, you can see the prodigal son parable, spoken by Jesus, and more at the start, regarding what Jesus does with a lost sheep. The sheep are in His flock, meaning those already saved. I can't make this any plainer. Jesus Himself said that He would seek after, and bring back, believers that stray/are lost.

I am telling you that you can become free from your sin by the power of the cross. I am telling you that you can be reborn a spiritual being that desires to follow love only. I have come to you proclaiming victory in the son. I am not contradicting Christ, I have elevated him to my savior. The one who saves me today, everyday. Why do you reject your freedom? Why do want to continue to believe that you will continue to sin because you are incapable of anything else? Why would you want to tell anyone that? How can that message come from a loving God? Has not sin become utterly sinful to you? Why do you find it so impossible that you are one of the lost sheep? And that he is reaching out for you right now?

I am saying many things that are against the modern church. What am I saying that is against Christ?

reply to post by sacgamer25


Nope, sorry, not playing that little game. You don't get to simply label a Bible verse, and call it a "standard church verse", and refuse to discuss what it says. You can either discuss, in detail, why you think the verses I offered are wrong, or you can simply admit they are not, and that your position isn't correct. Unless you want to discuss ALL of the Bible, instead of hand-picked verses, taken out of context to further a misconception, there is no point in bothering with you.

I also don't need you telling me what salvation is about. I have known that for decades. I am very well versed in what the Bible states, and don't need someone that wants to ignore parts of it trying to tell me about it.

Unless and until you address, in detail, why you believe the verses I posted, some from the mouth of Jesus, are "wrong", you have lost this debate, and are talking to no one.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Nope, sorry, not playing that little game. You don't get to simply label a Bible verse, and call it a "standard church verse", and refuse to discuss what it says. You can either discuss, in detail, why you think the verses I offered are wrong, or you can simply admit they are not, and that your position isn't correct. Unless you want to discuss ALL of the Bible, instead of hand-picked verses, taken out of context to further a misconception, there is no point in bothering with you.

I also don't need you telling me what salvation is about. I have known that for decades. I am very well versed in what the Bible states, and don't need someone that wants to ignore parts of it trying to tell me about it.

Unless and until you address, in detail, why you believe the verses I posted, some from the mouth of Jesus, are "wrong", you have lost this debate, and are talking to no one.

I have provided you with more than enough scripture to see the truth. There will always be something missing in your life. There will remain a void and you will attempt to fill it. When you realize there is nothing you can do to fill the void remember that every day is today and that today is a good day to let faith set you free from yourself.

I am here to love you so I must be honest. I know that what I am saying will possibly bring you to anger. Just understand that I believed in the Christ you believe in once, and I was left empty, looking for a way to fill the void. Then one day I gave him more power through faith and he showed me the way.

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Nope, sorry, not playing that little game. You don't get to simply label a Bible verse, and call it a "standard church verse", and refuse to discuss what it says. You can either discuss, in detail, why you think the verses I offered are wrong, or you can simply admit they are not, and that your position isn't correct. Unless you want to discuss ALL of the Bible, instead of hand-picked verses, taken out of context to further a misconception, there is no point in bothering with you.

I also don't need you telling me what salvation is about. I have known that for decades. I am very well versed in what the Bible states, and don't need someone that wants to ignore parts of it trying to tell me about it.

Unless and until you address, in detail, why you believe the verses I posted, some from the mouth of Jesus, are "wrong", you have lost this debate, and are talking to no one.

I have provided you with more than enough scripture to see the truth. There will always be something missing in your life. There will remain a void and you will attempt to fill it. When you realize there is nothing you can do to fill the void remember that every day is today and that today is a good day to let faith set you free from yourself.

I am here to love you so I must be honest. I know that what I am saying will possibly bring you to anger. Just understand that I believed in the Christ you believe in once, and I was left empty, looking for a way to fill the void. Then one day I gave him more power through faith and he showed me the way.

There is no void in my life. You have done nothing but ignore entire sections of the Bible, imply that people who disagree with you must not have any faith, and avoid addressing any of the points others bring up. You know nothing about the faith that I have, or what I believe. Again, take a look at the ENTIRE CHAPTER of Luke 15, the words of Christ Himself. That shows that your position is incorrect.

Luke 15 - spoken by Jesus

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. - Luke 15:7

This line, right here, implies that it is not a crime to be imperfect. In fact, it is encouraged to recognize your imperfection and utilize it, rather than struggle to ignore your imperfections.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


You say that I know nothing about you. You are defending your right to be a sinner. You believe that you have found justification because something you were told by another man. You are defending your right to be a liar and a thief. You are defending your right to be an adulterer and even a murder. You are defending your right to do things out of the sinful nature of where there is no love. What more do I need to understand?

You believe the Key to Luke 15 is that we are all sinners. The true key is Luke 15 is here.

10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

Sinners are being called to repentance. Repentance means to turn away from your sin and to stop sinning. Anyone who believes that we cannot overcome sin by the power of Christ will constantly need to come back to repentance.

The Catholic Church taught a dogma where man would repent and be forgiven by a Pastor, weekly if needed. You believe that we are forgiven for our sins but because as men we will keep needing to be forgiven. Do you see how your Dogma, although slightly better because the man must go to Christ each time, still leaves you with the knowledge that you will fail again.

The Christ I believe in has the power to free a man from sin through the process he calls being born again. The death of ones earthly nature to allow for the birth of one's spiritual nature. Anyone who lives by the earthly nature will continue to sin. For anyone born of the spirit will sin no more.

Hebrews 10
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.

Only by doing the will of the father can you receive what he promised. What is God's wil? That you will believe his son. What is did the son teach, that the man who believes in him will receive Grace, die a new man and be raised a new man. This does not mean pick and choose what to believe, but to believe that he indeed can raise you a new man today, that will be made like him, through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Why do you continue to argue with me? Why do you want to hold onto your sin? You must realize that we are only debating one point. You say you must continue to sin, I say let Christ set you free. Who is bringing you Good News?

It is never the will of the father that any man sin. We sin out of the desires of our own will. Anyone who continues to sin is incapable of doing the will of the Father. There is no truth in sin.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance. - Luke 15:7

This line, right here, implies that it is not a crime to be imperfect. In fact, it is encouraged to recognize your imperfection and utilize it, rather than struggle to ignore your imperfections.

Repent means to turn away from your sin. To sin no more. Yes we are encouraged to acknowledge that we sin, so that we may turn to God to be cleansed from our sin that we might be reborn in Christ. Anyone who is in Christ will overcome sin. You have missed the point of this passage.

The point starts at recognition but ends not in struggle but in Grace, Love, and salvation.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

You say that I know nothing about you. You are defending your right to be a sinner. You believe that you have found justification because something you were told by another man. You are defending your right to be a liar and a thief. You are defending your right to be an adulterer and even a murder. You are defending your right to do things out of the sinful nature of where there is no love. What more do I need to understand?

You really need to work on the reading comprehension. I stated that the Bible says we are ALL sinners. We all sin. That is a fact. I never defended sin as a "right". That statement on your part is a flat out LIE.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
You believe the Key to Luke 15 is that we are all sinners. The true key is Luke 15 is here.

10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

No, the point is that Jesus will seek after believers that stray off the path of righteousness, and bring them home. You do realize, I hope, that you have sinned in your behavior and comments to me here, right? Claiming I said something I didn't say is bearing false witness, which is a sin. Good thing He forgives you anyway, eh? Oh, wait....you don't believe that. You think that if you fail, after salvation, that you are no longer saved. Lucky for you, you are wrong in that assumption.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
Sinners are being called to repentance. Repentance means to turn away from your sin and to stop sinning. Anyone who believes that we cannot overcome sin by the power of Christ will constantly need to come back to repentance.

Repentance from sin doesn't mean one will never fail again. Sin can be overcome, but not fully until we receive those resurrected bodies that are free of sin entirely.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
The Catholic Church taught a dogma where man would repent and be forgiven by a Pastor, weekly if needed. You believe that we are forgiven for our sins but because as men we will keep needing to be forgiven. Do you see how your Dogma, although slightly better because the man must go to Christ each time, still leaves you with the knowledge that you will fail again.

I don't follow the Catholic Church. It isn't dogma to trust and believe what Jesus says to us about sin and forgiveness. The prodigal son was not ejected from the family because he strayed. Likewise, believers are not lost because they stray. That is the entire point of that parable. You don't lose your salvation.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
Why do you continue to argue with me? Why do you want to hold onto your sin? You must realize that we are only debating one point. You say you must continue to sin, I say let Christ set you free. Who is bringing you Good News?

When did I ever say that I wanted to hold on to sin? Again, you claim I stated something I did not. I also did not say one "must" sin; I stated that people will sin, even after salvation. "Must" means they are required, as by some rule. "Will" means they cannot help it, because of the sin nature in the bodies we inhabit here.