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Christians, can you really call yourselves, a Christian?

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posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 



What did Christ say about brothers being angry without cause?


You say we are angry without a cause? I see empires beginning to crumble from the poison running in their walls, and the shadows scheming in their hidden halls. I see leaders who care more about their careers than the people they were elected to lead, who say they can fix the world but they really don't have a clue how to begin. I see a world beginning to collapse because a get-rich-quick plot has begun to take its toll, and we are the first ones to get crushed by the falling bricks.

And then we have the Christians who don't practice what they preach, for a god they don't understand, toward an end that they refuse to fight. And we are angry without cause?

No. We are angry with plenty of causes. Turn on the news, and you will have all the proof you need of what I'm saying.


If anyone truly believes in Christ they would put down their gun and submit their will and life to God.




posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
reply to post by jhill76
 


That's a fallacy. The Bible actually speaks quite differently from what many seem to believe, when it comes to judgment.

From this source - link - you can see many references that point out how we should judge, not that we should never judge. I will post a few verses as examples.

John 7:34 - Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Luke 7:43 - Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

Matthew 7 speaks of not judging hypocritically, not of not judging at all.

Luke 12:57 - Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?

There is a lot more, and anyone confused on the issue should take a look at the references provided in that link. One good online Bible resource is BibleGateway.com. You can choose your preferred translation, and it's handy if you don't have a Bible with you.



There are several types of judgment allowed in the bible. The first is simple in matters of the law we are allowed to appoint judges to judge lawbreakers. The bible says that the governments and laws have been put in place by God so if someone breaks one of those laws and his accuser brings him to court the one appointed as judge may judge that persons guilt or innocence only. The punishment in most cases has already been written down in the law.

In the church it is the responsibility for all brothers to look out for one another and build each other up. If one brother catches another brother in sin, he should pray with the man for strength to overcome. If the sinner will not listen then the matter is brought to more people and then to the elders of the church. If the person refuses to listen to the church than he is thrown out of the church until he repents. Upon repentance he will be accepted back.

But understand these forms of judgment are concessions more than commands. The command is to love, the concession is what do we do when people choose not to love.

The other form of judgment, which is where most Christians get confused, is discernment. If the Holy Spirit is guiding us we have the ability to discern right from wrong. If we add this with knowledge of scripture we should always be able to come to the truth. The testimony of two witnesses, you see although God does not need a witness he has provided one for us in the bible. In this way we are able to discern weather ours or others motives are loving or not. The biggest reason for this gift is so we are not lead astray by false teachers who are teaching with false motives, money.

What most Christians have done is played God. We have decided what sins our "acceptable" and what sins will most certainly send you to hell. But they have no idea what they are talking about. They say things not based on an understanding that they sought from the Holy Spirit but rather from men that they assumed would teach them the way. The bible tells us that no one but the Holy Spirit is your teacher. How does anyone think they can find the truth if they don't do what the book says?

Let me help you out with this one, if you are sinning then you are a slave to that sin. If you are a slave you are not a son, a slave has no inheritance in the Kingdome of God. Repent and believe that God will make good on his promise to teach you how to stop sinning and start loving. Enter the Kingdome today.



posted on Jan, 5 2013 @ 07:01 PM
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I like this....

youtube.com...#



posted on Jan, 6 2013 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 

sac,
it's nice to see you back here!

Okay, I re-read my post to which this one (this reply) was directed.

It's been over 5 months since I wrote that.

I appreciate your thoughtfulness, and your care.....

I've come quite a way since late July --
Thank you for not "giving up on me".



posted on Jan, 6 2013 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by sacgamer25
 

sac,
it's nice to see you back here!

Okay, I re-read my post to which this one (this reply) was directed.

It's been over 5 months since I wrote that.

I appreciate your thoughtfulness, and your care.....

I've come quite a way since late July --
Thank you for not "giving up on me".





Of all the people I have talked to on this site. You are the one I would be most intrigued to meet. I mean that in a brotherly way, not some weird internet stalker kind of ways. I said that more for everyone else than for you, I think you have figured out that I really do care and I do not judge.
edit on 6-1-2013 by sacgamer25 because:

P.S. I guess I should check dates, Im glad you are doing better.
edit on 6-1-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)
extra DIV



posted on Jan, 6 2013 @ 07:03 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


I think you have figured out that I really do care and I do not judge.

Yes, sac, I have figured that out.
We have missed you here. Your insights and thoughts are valuable.
~wild




posted on Jan, 6 2013 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 




Thank you for not "giving up on me".


You thoughts, words, and ideals means a lot to many on here, even if they do not respond, they still take in the words.



posted on Jan, 6 2013 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


Do you realize that you are saying that believing Jesus is the son of God, is more important than loving everyone else?


I said that salvation is though Him, and knowing that He is God the Son is part of that salvation. I have provided verses for this.


Originally posted by sacgamer25
Jesus did not give one command believe that I am the son of God and go to heaven.

Jesus gave this command anyone who believes in me will obey me. He said love everyone. So if the father says love everyone and someone says no but latter they decide to love, won't they be regarded as someone who did what Christ said? Didn't Christ say that none can come to him unless called by the father? The narrow path to the father is love. Christ was the physical body of that love and he is the spirit that enters us when we choose to love.


There are many verses that point out how faith in what he did for us is the way to salvation. Check those out, then get back to me. Chapter and verse quotes would be helpful.


Originally posted by sacgamer25
So without love I am nothing. We choose to be with love or without love. We don't have to sin, what we do have to do is repent and choose to love everyone around us both our friends and enemies. We must forgive all of the people who have sinned against us so that we may be forgiven. We must stop judging others so we can stop being judged.


"We don't have to sin."? Really? Romans 3:23 - "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" That means we will all sin. It's unavoidable. You should scroll up and check out what I already posted about judging others.


Originally posted by sacgamer25
What is the best way to teach a baby that fire is hot and not to be messed with? Allow their hand close enough to still be safe but to appreciate that heat of the fire. This is where we live close to the fire, but the spirit can free us from this fire if we seek love.

This is what the bible says a believer must do.


Chapter and verse, please. You need to show where you get your ideas, so we can discuss them properly.


Originally posted by sacgamer25
What you have been taught will leave you close to the fire your whole life. The bible says those who are born again sin no more. Have faith to believe that Christ can teach you to be free from your sin. Revelation says that those of us that endure and continue to love will be saved. We win; stop believing these people who have you believe that you have already lost. If you have already lost than what was the point for Christ sacrifice? Do you think he died merely to tell you that the afterlife is real? NO he came to teach a message that could save you today, that could change your life today.


Again, chapter and verse. I have provided Biblical support for my statements. You have not. The Bible doesn't teach that those saved will be suddenly perfect. It teaches that we should try to be.

I have no idea what you mean by people who would have anyone believe they have already lost.



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 01:17 AM
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reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 




Which shooter, exactly? if you refer to the school shooting, there has been no mention of his religious beliefs.


The date of the OP, does not coincide with the recent shooting that took place as of late.



posted on Jan, 7 2013 @ 02:41 AM
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Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 




Which shooter, exactly? if you refer to the school shooting, there has been no mention of his religious beliefs.


The date of the OP, does not coincide with the recent shooting that took place as of late.


What, exactly, does that mean? YOU mentioned a shooter, on page one:


Originally posted by jhill76
This is true. Prime example: The shooter in the news recently.
edit on 21-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)


I asked to which shooter you refer. It's not a complicated question. Which shooter do you speak of, when you discuss their supposed beliefs?



posted on Jan, 8 2013 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 




John 14:15 If you love me, keep my commands.

Leviticus 19:18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.

Matthew 19:19 "'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'"

Matthew 22:37–39 Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'

Mark 12:30–31 "'And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment. And the second, like it, is this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."

Luke 10:27 So he answered and said, "'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and 'your neighbor as yourself.'"

Romans 13:9 For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

James 2:8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well ...


Looks to me like Jesus was saying, well exactly what he said. If you love me do as I command, love your neighbor. So if you don't love your neighbor how will anyone know you love Christ, or even believe in him for that matter? You don’t even do the one thing he commanded. Remember Jesus considers everyone your neighbor even your enemy. We are given the same choice Adam and Eve had. We can choose to love by faith and obey, or we can disobey which leads to death. And we only have one rule just like them.



John 8:34, 36 Whosoever 34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

I John 3:9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

Rom. 6:16-18 16 Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living. 17 Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you. 18 Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living.

I John 5:4 4 For every child of God defeats this evil world, and we achieve this victory through our faith.

1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.



Jesus did not teach a doctrine of faith that leaves your life marginally better. He was talking about a complete change one in which you are freed from your addiction to sin so that you may righteously pursue the father. Until you have the faith to believe addictions Christ can set you free from your sin you will not be free from your sin. Christ can set you free, you say you believe in him so you should find it easy to believe what I am saying. My words are not in contradiction to Christ, but rather in contradiction to what you have been taught. I do not ask you to believe in me rather to believe in the words above that were given to you through the Holy Spirit. I have been set free and am a witness to this freedom.

I will give you one more verse so that you may believe.



Romans 1:14-17 14 I am obligated both to Greeks and non-Greeks, both to the wise and the foolish. 15 That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who are in Rome.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. 17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”



"The righteous will live by faith"

This passage does not say that sinners will live by faith, but rather that man will be made righteous according to his faith. You have a choice but you must believe.



posted on Jan, 8 2013 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by sacgamer25
Looks to me like Jesus was saying, well exactly what he said. If you love me do as I command, love your neighbor. So if you don't love your neighbor how will anyone know you love Christ, or even believe in him for that matter? You don’t even do the one thing he commanded. Remember Jesus considers everyone your neighbor even your enemy. We are given the same choice Adam and Eve had. We can choose to love by faith and obey, or we can disobey which leads to death. And we only have one rule just like them.


"You don’t even do the one thing he commanded." Oh, really? Upon what nonsense do you base such a statement? The OP is making baseless statements, refusing to back up anything, or even respond to a question, and I and some others have called him out on that. Jesus didn't say to sit back and nod and smile as people lied. Love doesn't mean to ignore sin. If you think it does, you'd better re-read that bit with Jesus and the money lenders in the temple.


Originally posted by sacgamer25
Jesus did not teach a doctrine of faith that leaves your life marginally better. He was talking about a complete change one in which you are freed from your addiction to sin so that you may righteously pursue the father. Until you have the faith to believe addictions Christ can set you free from your sin you will not be free from your sin. Christ can set you free, you say you believe in him so you should find it easy to believe what I am saying. My words are not in contradiction to Christ, but rather in contradiction to what you have been taught. I do not ask you to believe in me rather to believe in the words above that were given to you through the Holy Spirit. I have been set free and am a witness to this freedom.


1 John 1:8-10 - "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

We do not become incapable of sin after salvation. Peter wasn't cast into Hell for claiming,, as Jesus said he would, that he didn't know Jesus. There is no doubt that Peter was saved before that time, and saved afterward as well. Peter repented of that sin, and Jesus forgave him.

As for pointing out an error to another:

James 5:19-20 - "Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins."

There is more:

Hebrews 12:6-11 - "For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby."

God chastens, disciplines, believers that stray. The prodigal son was part of the family, and was still accepted when he turned from his sin and back to his father. The lost sheep isn't cast into Hell, but the Good Shepherd goes seeking that one, and brings it back.

You want me to believe you, over what the Bible, and the Holy Spirit tell me? Not happening. Not if you disagree with them. Your words do contradict the Bible, and thus contradict God.



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 01:09 AM
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reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 





We do not become incapable of sin after salvation.


Agreed. As long as we remain in these corrupted bodies we will be subject to sin. That's the entire purpose for getting new bodies like the angels, that aren't corrupted. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak, so we need strong flesh.



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


I am calling you to holiness but you refuse to believe that you are being called to be holly. The bible says you can know a teacher by his fruit. The fruit of the lesson you have been taught is sinful man left with no way to escape his sin. The message that I am bringing is a message of love where all men can be freed from sin by the power of the Holy Spirit. What man is bringing you good fruit, "the good news"?

I have not eliminated Jesus from the equation but instead I have elevated him to his rightful place as high priest and teacher. I have already posted enough verses to contradict what you believe but I will continue to teach the power of the cross.



1 John 1:8-10 - "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."



You have believed a false interpretation of this passage, which is based on a poor interpretation of what is written in Paul's letters.

I am not saying that I have no sin, sin lives in my flesh. But I live by the spirit through faith. Do I still sin? Yes. But it is no longer the willfully disobedient sin that I did before I was saved. Nor am I addicted to the things that I was once addicted to. I have been set free from my desire to sin. So when sin enters my thoughts through the desire of my flesh I now have a choice to follow the Holy Spirit and listen. Before I was addicted but now I walk away.

The one area that is hardest to control is our reactions. Anger, Lustful thoughts, and things still enter the mind and my eyes or mouth will act almost out of instinct. After all I told myself these things were ok for 38 years. But no longer do I see myself as incapable of defeating sin in my life. Through the power of the Holy Spirit I have overcome my desire to sin, now I must overcome my reactions that cause me to sin. I may never get it perfect but I will never stop trying.

You have believed that you have to sin. What the bible says is you have free will. You say that all must sin the bible says all will sin. You believe that you learn a lesson from sin, I say you can only learn the truth if you love. If you sin, it is by choice that you have sinned. God does not make anyone sin, but instead through his foreknowledge knew we all would. This is why he sent us his son, to provide us with a path to him. The path is love.




Galatians 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

Colossians 3:1-25 If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth. For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. ...

1 Corinthians 15:31 Idie every day--I mean that, brothers--just as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord.



I believe the best way to understand what I am saying is one can put to death sin everyday and choose to live righteously. However you will never fully understand unless you believe.

We do not have to sin, we choose to sin. What is known by God is all of us will choose to sin. Thank God through his son we have been given a way out.



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 01:57 AM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 





We do not become incapable of sin after salvation.


Agreed. As long as we remain in these corrupted bodies we will be subject to sin. That's the entire purpose for getting new bodies like the angels, that aren't corrupted. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak, so we need strong flesh.



Lonewolf, the bible says the old self dies on the cross when you receive the Holy Spirit. You die an earthly man and are reborn a spiritual man, and God causes your flesh to live. Although you are still trapped in the flesh that wants to sin, you are a spiritual man who is no longer addicted to your sin. But rather you have become repulsed by it and have been given the ability to understand the lies and walk away from the temptation. God will not test you more than what you can stand up against.



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 02:11 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Very well said.

Very insightful post on sin.



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 09:10 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 





But rather you have become repulsed by it and have been given the ability to understand the lies and walk away from the temptation. God will not test you more than what you can stand up against.


Which is why you feel compelled to repent when you do sin. You can resist temptation, but there are times you will fail because we are still in corrupted flesh. Thats is why these bodies must die and that is why it was decreed from the beginning that we should die, lest we live in corruption forever.



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by sacgamer25
 





But rather you have become repulsed by it and have been given the ability to understand the lies and walk away from the temptation. God will not test you more than what you can stand up against.


Which is why you feel compelled to repent when you do sin. You can resist temptation, but there are times you will fail because we are still in corrupted flesh. Thats is why these bodies must die and that is why it was decreed from the beginning that we should die, lest we live in corruption forever.




Philippians 3:6-16

6 as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for legalistic righteousness, faultless. 7 But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8 What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith.10 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,11 and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.

12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. 15 All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.16 Only let us live up to what we have already attained.



Notice a few things about what Paul says. Paul says that according to the law his righteousness is faultless.

This means in essence he is making the claim that his whole life he has upheld the law. The rich young man also makes the claim that he has kept all of God's law since he was a boy. According to you this is not possible. When Paul says all have sinned, he is not talking about the law of Moses.

He is talking about the new law in Christ, to love. Love does not get angry with our neighbor, nor does it look with lust. These are the types of sins that Paul is unable to get red of himself. That is why he considers everything a loss to having the knowledge to uphold the perfect law of love.

Although he does not think he has perfected loving others, he believes that we should try to live up to this gift that we have already been given. Live as though we have not been given this gift so that we may be able to convince others that we indeed believe in the message.

You do not have to violate any of the 10 commandments. Since Paul did not violate any of these laws, nor did he violate any of the hundreds of other laws found in the levitical code.



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 




Which is why you feel compelled to repent when you do sin. You can resist temptation, but there are times you will fail because we are still in corrupted flesh. Thats is why these bodies must die and that is why it was decreed from the beginning that we should die, lest we live in corruption forever.


That's one of my most basic problems with Christianity. Christians are encouraged to spend so much time demonizing their flaws, that they forget what they can learn from making mistakes. If you spend more time beating yourself up than you do contemplating what you have learned, how do you get any better?



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 





You do not have to violate any of the 10 commandments. Since Paul did not violate any of these laws, nor did he violate any of the hundreds of other laws found in the levitical code.


I never said you did, those are imbedded in christianity's principles and ideals. You don't have to convert me man, that happened 2 years ago but thanks anyways!





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