Syrian Muslim Brotherhood to launch political party - The Caliphate Builds Momentum , page 3

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment

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I must applaud your appropriate and excellent response, and mention of allah and 1 of his 99 names.
The Great Deceiver! Hello!
I have a message of truth as a warning to all that may hear which i have repeated many times on such threads at ATS
To all muslims i must warn these things and do so regularly, i have nothing against any man or religion, i am a firm believer that the religion does not define the man, the man defines the religion and true peaceful loving muslims are a testament to this.
WARNING! Allah is Satan and therefore Mohammed is the false prophet!

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

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Regardless if 'Messiah' or 'Prophet', what is more important?.... You still have alot to learn to grow up spiritually.

I can assure you that my spiritual path will not be complete until the day I die, and you err greatly to presume to understand my position on the true and narrow path.

I don't make any presumptions on your 'spiritual development', but one thing I will tell you is that you are mightily wrong to assume that there is no importance in the question of 'Messiah' or 'Prophet'. There is a vast difference.

The Messiah was prophesied to come through the line of David, in accordance with YHWH's predictions through his servants, the prophets. And He did come, as predicted, and He died on the cross, to save many from their sins. As predicted. Christ was the title bestowed upon Him as the Son of the Living God, and His name was Joshua, transliterated into Greek/English as Jesus, which means 'The Lord Saves'.

In the Koran, His divinity is denied, and the very purpose of His earthly ministry (the atonement for our sinfulness, subsequent rebirth and bestowal of righteousness before God) is denied. Mohammed is heralded as a greater prophet, and the 'revelation' of the Koran is held to be more important than the revelation to the Jews and the subsequent appearance of the Messiah.

As I said before, there was NO NEED for a revelation from Mohammed, and the revelation he touted was a two-edged sword, designed to cause people to either live a generally righteous life by ignoring the most hateful commandments (therefore enabling non-discerning folk to believe that Islam is supposed to be a religion of peace), but primarily to create merciless, vicious killers, intent on destroying all but those who share their strict interpretation of the 'Holy' Koran. And espec

Once Messiah had come on the Earth, there was no need for further direct revelation in the form of another 'Holy Book', because as promised by the prophet Joel, God Himself had poured out His Spirit upon those who believed in Messiah, from the day of Pentecost up until the current time. It started with the Jews, and spread out to all other nations, as a result of the traveling ministry of the apostles.

I have believed in Jesus, two thousand years after He lived on the Earth, and have received a renewing of my mind and spirit, assurance of the forgiveness of my (many) sins, as well as gifts from the Holy Spirit of God Himself. These gifts include the ability to pray in tongues, to prophesy, to receive knowledge in a supernatural way (that one is useful in order to prove to people when we are praying for them that God is interested in ministering to their needs; God gives us knowledge about their lives that we otherwise could not possibly know).

Etc.

There is no way to minister the truth of this fact to you - that Jesus was the fulfilment of the prophets, and that there was no need for God to send a new revelation via Mohammed - because you are entrenched in centuries-old deceptions and half-presentation of the truths of right-living. Your faith leads you to believe that you can somehow earn your way into God's favour, particularly so by killing the unbelievers, killing less strict Muslims, and that in doing so you end up in a [perverse] 'Heaven' - which would be Hell for any woman.

The gospel of Christ is PEACE. The apostle Paul wrote:

...as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. (Romans 12:18)

And that is the aim of Christian living. Warfare is only taken up when there is no other means by which peaceful people can survive under the oppressive regime of those who have made themselves enemies. The crusades of the middle ages and the modern day American conquistadors [were / are not] living according to the Christian faith.

However, in Islam, it is a different matter altogether.

In the Koran, believers are urged to take up the sword against those who do not wish to convert to the [hateful] Islamic faith. See the following:

"Take not Jews and Christians as friends...Slay the idolaters [non-Muslims] wherever ye find them.... Fight against such..as believe not in Allah.." (Surah 5:51; 9:5 )

Compare this to Christianity, where we are told that God's redemptive purpose in Christ is to redeem men from all nations. NO HATE.

Let's have some more of your 'religion of peace':

Qur'an 9:5, known as "the verse of the sword," declares,

"Fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem."

"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

reply to post by 1947flxible

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Just received this email Seems to blend with your OP

Geert Wilders is a Dutch Member of Parliament.


In a generation or two, the US will ask itself:
who lost Europe ?'
Here is the speech of Geert Wilders, Chairman, Party for Freedom, the Netherlands , at the Four Seasons, New York , introducing an Alliance of Patriots and announcing the Facing Jihad Conference in Jerusalem .

Dear friends,

Thank you very much for inviting me. I come to America with a mission.
All is not well in the old world.

There is a tremendous danger looming, and it is very difficult to be optimistic.

We might be in the final stages of the Islamization of Europe. This not only is a clear and present danger to the future of Europe itself, it is a threat to America and the sheer survival of the West. The United States as the last bastion of Western civilization, facing an Islamic Europe.

First I will describe the situation on the ground in Europe . Then, I will say a few things about Islam. To close I will tell you about a meeting in Jerusalem .

The Europe you know is changing.

You have probably seen the landmarks. But in all of these cities, sometimes a few blocks away from your tourist destination, there is another world. It is the world of the parallel society created by Muslim mass-migration.

All throughout Europe a new reality is rising: entire Muslim neighborhoods where very few indigenous people reside or are even seen. And if they are, they might regret it. This goes for the police as well. It's the world of head scarves, where women walk around in figureless tents, with baby strollers and a group of children. Their husbands, or slaveholders if you prefer, walk three steps ahead. With mosques on many street corners. The shops have signs you and I cannot read. You will be hard-pressed to find any economic activity. These are Muslim ghettos controlled by religious fanatics. These are Muslim neighborhoods, and they are mushrooming in every city across Europe . These are the building-blocks for territorial control of increasingly larger portions of Europe , street by street, neighborhood by neighborhood, city by city.

There are now thousands of mosques throughout Europe . With larger congregations than there are in churches. And in every European city there are plans to build super-mosques that will dwarf every church in the region. Clearly, the signal is: we rule.

Many European cities are already one-quarter Muslim: just take Amsterdam , Marseille and Malmo in Sweden . In many cities the majority of the under-18 population is Muslim. Paris is now surrounded by a ring of Muslim neighborhoods. Mohammed is the most popular name among boys in many cities.

In some elementary schools in Amsterdam the farm can no longer be mentioned, because that would also mean mentioning the pig, and that would be an insult to Muslims.

Many state schools in Belgium and Denmark only serve halal food to all pupils. In once-tolerant Amsterdam gays are beaten up almost exclusively by Muslims. Non-Muslim women routinely hear 'whore, whore'. Satellite dishes are not pointed to local TV stations, but to stations in the country of origin.

In France school teachers are advised to avoid authors deemed offensive to Muslims, including Voltaire and Diderot; the same is increasingly true of Darwin . The history of the Holocaust can no longer be taught because of Muslim sensitivity.

In England sharia courts are now officially part of the British legal system. Many neighborhoods in France are no-go areas for women without head scarves. Last week a man almost died after being beaten up by Muslims in Brussels , because he was drinking during the Ramadan.

Jews are fleeing France in record numbers, on the run for the worst wave of anti-Semitism since World War II. French is now commonly spoken on the streets of Tel Aviv and Netanya , Israel . I could go on forever with stories like this. Stories about Islamization.

A total of fifty-four million Muslims now live in Europe . San Diego University recently calculated that a staggering 25 percent of the population in Europe will be Muslim just 12 years from now. Bernhard Lewis has predicted a Muslim majority by the end of this century.

Now these are just numbers. And the numbers would not be threatening if the Muslim-immigrants had a strong desire to assimilate. But there are few signs of that. The Pew Research Center reported that half of French Muslims see their loyalty to Islam as greater than their loyalty to France . One-third of French Muslims do not object to suicide attacks. The British Centre for Social Cohesion reported that one-third of British Muslim students are in favor of a worldwide caliphate. Muslims demand what they call 'respect'.

reply to post by 1947flxible

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Sorry, computer slow

Muslims demand what they call 'respect'. And this is how we give them respect. We have Muslim official state holidays.

The Christian-Democratic attorney general is willing to accept sharia in the Netherlands if there is a Muslim majority. We have cabinet members with passports from Morocco and Turkey .

Muslim demands are supported by unlawful behavior, ranging from petty crimes and random violence, for example against ambulance workers and bus drivers, to small-scale riots. Paris has seen its uprising in the low-income suburbs, the banlieus. I call the perpetrators 'settlers'. Because that is what they are. They do not come to integrate into our societies; they come to integrate our society into their Dar-al-Islam. Therefore, they are settlers.

Much of this street violence I mentioned is directed exclusively against non-Muslims, forcing many native people to leave their neighborhoods, their cities, their countries. Moreover, Muslims are now a swing vote not to be ignored.

The second thing you need to know is the importance of Mohammed the prophet. His behavior is an example to all Muslims and cannot be criticized. Now, if Mohammed had been a man of peace, let us say like Ghandi and Mother Theresa wrapped in one, there would be no problem. But Mohammed was a warlord, a mass murderer, a pedophile, and had several marriages - at the same time. Islamic tradition tells us how he fought in battles, how he had his enemies murdered and even had prisoners of war executed. Mohammed himself slaughtered the Jewish tribe of Banu Qurayza. If it is good for Islam, it is good. If it is bad for Islam, it is bad.

Let no one fool you about Islam being a religion. Sure, it has a god, and a here-after, and 72 virgins. But in its essence Islam is a political ideology. It is a system that lays down detailed rules for society and the life of every person. Islam wants to dictate every aspect of life. Islam means 'submission'. Islam is not compatible with freedom and democracy, because what it strives for is sharia. If you want to compare Islam to anything, compare it to communism or national-socialism, these are all totalitarian ideologies.

Now you know why Winston Churchill called Islam 'the most retrograde force in the world', and why he compared Mein Kampf to the Quran. The public has wholeheartedly accepted the Palestinian narrative, and sees Israel as the aggressor. I have lived in this country and visited it dozens of times. I support Israel . First, because it is the Jewish homeland after two thousand years of exile up to and including Auschwitz, second because it is a democracy, and third because Israel is our first line of defense.

This tiny country is situated on the fault line of jihad, frustrating Islam's territorial advance. Israel is facing the front lines of jihad, like Kashmir, Kosovo, the Philippines , Southern Thailand, Darfur in Sudan , Lebanon , and Aceh in Indonesia . Israel is simply in the way. The same way West-Berlin was during the Cold War.

The war against Israel is not a war against Israel . It is a war against the West. It is jihad. Israel is simply receiving the blows that are meant for all of us. If there would have been no Israel , Islamic imperialism would have found other venues to release its energy and its desire for conquest. Thanks to Israeli parents who send their children to the army and lay awake at night, parents in Europe and America can sleep well and dream, unaware of the dangers looming.

Many in Europe argue in favor of abandoning Israel in order to address the grievances of our Muslim minorities. But if Israel were, God forbid, to go down, it would not bring any solace to the West. It would not mean our Muslim minorities would all of a sudden change their behavior, and accept our values. On the contrary, the end of Israel would give enormous encouragement to the forces of Islam. They would, and rightly so, see the demise of Israel as proof that the West is weak, and doomed. The end of Israel would not mean the end of our problems with Islam, but only the beginning. It would mean the start of the final battle for world domination. If they can get Israel , they can get everything. So-called journalists volunteer to label any and all critics of Islamization as a 'right-wing extremists' or 'racists'. In my country, the Netherlands , 60 percent of the population now sees the mass immigration of Muslims as the number one policy mistake since World War II. And another 60 percent sees Islam as the biggest threat. Yet there is a greater danger than terrorist attacks, the scenario of America as the last man standing.

reply to post by steve1709

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Last bit

The lights may go out in Europe faster than you can imagine. An Islamic Europe means a Europe without freedom and democracy, an economic wasteland, an intellectual nightmare, and a loss of military might for America - as its allies will turn into enemies, enemies with atomic bombs. With an Islamic Europe, it would be up to America alone to preserve the heritage of Rome , Athens and Jerusalem ...

Dear friends, liberty is the most precious of gifts. My generation never had to fight for this freedom, it was offered to us on a silver platter, by people who fought for it with their lives. All throughout Europe , American cemeteries remind us of the young boys who never made it home, and whose memory we cherish. My generation does not own this freedom; we are merely its custodians. We can only hand over this hard won liberty to Europe s children in the same state in which it was offered to us. We cannot strike a deal with mullahs and imams. Future generations would never forgive us. We cannot squander our liberties. We simply do not have the right to do so.

We have to take the necessary action now to stop this Islamic stupidity from destroying the free world that we know.

reply to post by steve1709

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Well done Steve, some excellent and relevant points made here. Of course, the fact that Muslims are commanded in the Koran to 'convert or kill' is a fact often overlooked by the (understandably timid) moderate Muslim majority. However, even the moderate community is far more likely to bow to its cultural legacy of remaining separate from the cultures within which they settle. They tend not to raise any objection (or any significant objection) when more severe Muslims demanding Sharia and seeking to enforce the 'convert or kill' doctrine push the boundaries of what is culturally acceptable, wherever in the world they find themselves.

Make no mistake, oh casual observer... There is no way that any Muslim can defend the facts we have raised here about the many and horrendous commands in the religion which (they believe) is supposed to supercede the mission of Christ, as Messiah.

The Jewish people were set apart as the nation through which God would reveal His law, and pronounce His plan of salvation to the nations of the Earth. The Jews, though often given solid assurances of the reality of God Almighty through the ministries of the prophets, were all too quick on many, many occasions, to fll into practices of idolatry and various other sinful activities which went against the commands of God.

So many times in the Old Testament, God announced that He expected them to live as an example of justice for all, mercy and redemption for the oppressed & poor among them, and tolerance/ inclusion for the foreigners who came to live among them. Time and again, they failed to do as they were told. They were the striking example of the fallen nature of Mankind. Even as the race who had been chosen to be set apart, within fixed boundaries (note that they were not expected to spread out like a virus, converting or killing - their conquests came to a fixed end point, when they were settled in the promised land) - even as the chosen race, with direct access to God through the Levitical priesthood, they could not bring from within themselves the motivation to keep His righteous commandments.

This is why Mankind needs a saviour. And duly, God had planned it since the beginning, when the Fallen state of Man became evident. The Messiah, the incarnate Son of God, was sent to Earth to defeat the adversary, the Satan, who is named as the 'prince of this world', and whose existence is in absolutely zero question within Israel and the surrounding nations. It is this mighty, corrupt and evil force that Jesus came to overthrow.

After Jesus died on the cross, He delivered the captives from the realm of spirit, where many were held in bondage to the evil spirits who reigned supreme in the sub-lunar world of the dead, Sheol. Once He had publicly shamed the enemy powers in the spirit realm, He came back to Earth, resurrected and glorified as the Living Son of God. Many people bore witness to His resurrection, and some were privy to His metaphysical ascension into the Highest Heaven.

The church were imbued with power by the Holy Spirit of God, as promised by the prophet of Old Testament days, Joel. They were able to do the same sort of works of power that Jesus Himself did, such as healings, exorcisms and so forth. They prayed in mysterious languages known as tongues, and they spoke with authority about things to come in the lives of other believers, through the ministry of prophecy. The church was sent into all the world to announce the Good News of salvation through the atoning death of Jesus, and (unlike the later Islamic evangelists) they were told that they should live in peace, and seek to be an example of Holy living.

If anyone would not receive the message of salvation through Christ, they were told to simply move on. Islam, several centuries later, told its followers that if someone would not receive the oppressive news of the Islamic faith, they were to be put to death.

Which religion sounds more akin to a Loving Heavenly Father, who brought into being the Universe in its grand majesty, and all of the wonderful patterns of nature that we see around us?

And no, you do not have to believe in a literal 'Creation in six days' to accept the truth of Christ. There is a lot of thought suggesting that the Book of Genesis contains parables, designed to illustrate principles, rather than literal truths. Principles such as God being the driving force of Creation, and that Mankind has fallen into a sinful state, giving power over the earth to the usurper prince, the demonic leader of Hell's armies, as a result of the rebellion of the first humans.

I could write for hours on these subjects, but I'll leave it there for now.

Summary - God's truth was revealed in Christ, as promised to the Jews. Islam comes about much later, and seeks willfully to undermine the successful ministry of Christ.

reply to post by steve1709

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First of all, allow the insignificant nobody me declare that I am a christian, a follower of our Messiah, and strive to follow his teachings. I am not a muslim. If any muslim calls me an infidel, then he has committed apostacy, for the good Prophet himself believed in the existance of our Messiah, and had not condemn his teachings. Only later radical men did, and not the Prophet.

And if any christian dares condemn me, then let him who is perfect cast the first stone at me.

That Dutch MP has a right to his opinion, but what is his agenda? To preach to Americans, or to undermine his own citizens whom are non-christians in his own secular homeland ruled by a constitution?

At least he is not calling for the death of muslims, or at least not outright. I can only hope that he seeks for a discussion instead, rather than to incite hatred for others that are different from him.

1. Freedom of worship is enshrined by major constituions around the world that supports human rights. Secularism DOES NOT mean atheism. Atheists do not legislate laws alone, for there are others whom are of religious faith that forms parliament to legislate laws.

Secularism means one's freedom to worship in his/her private space. What they do in private or home is their private affair, but what they do in PUBLIC space is subjected to the laws of the land, regardless of atheists or religious faithful.

Just because Europe had been christianized earlier, with a christian symbols in the land, does not mean Europe is a christian landmass. It can be so, if it wished, just as Arab lands wished it to be. It is only a matter of immigration policy, just cut out the hypocrisy of secularism and human rights, and let our world be divided into enclaves, discriminate against atheists and those different, and never shall the twain meet or share common goals to progress and evolve as a human race.


2. Can a national constitution accomodate other laws for other sets of people within a nation? The answer is a no brainer NO.

The national constitution was hard fought and hard won, so that a society can co-exist in peace. Every law would already had been set in place agreed upon by the People to share a common space and progress upon common values. Later immigrants CANNOT seek for a separate constitution for themselves, let alone change any laws.

If they wish to have their own constitution, then the airport is always open.

The People, as a whole, decides and abides by the national constitution. Those who change it arbitarilly or paid by others will either be booted out or forcefully removed by them.

Thus, if Sharia laws exists in a secular nation, that problem lays with the judiaciary and the elected legislatives that allows it to happens. If it is the will of the People, then so be it and the minority accept it. But if it is not, then the People must voice up.


3. Women walking around covered in tents is not just a religious right, but a woman's RIGHT. If she feels uncomfortable from the gaze of leery eyes, she has that right to cover herself. If she feels comfortable in showing off her feminine body for the world to admire, it is EQUALLY a woman's right.

So leave woman's rights out of the accusation of Islam requiring women to be walking tents. As long as the child has not gain independence from her parents, she has the right to be guided by her parents who love and care about her, and not for society to condemn.


4. Why are the muslim citizens in Europe bunching up together in enclaves? May the Dutch MP soul search. If christians were a minority in an arab land, would they not equally bunch up as well?

For decades, the muslims had been discriminated against, whereby they are set upon by xenophobic ignorant youths whom cares not about human rights. After too many beatings, the muslims would be fools to yet again allow themselves to be beaten up in a secular nation. And all these only drives them towards religious gangs and militancy, worse, support for those whom seem to help them from their oppressors.

Who is to blame?

Extremist radical Islamists and extreme fundamentalist Christians spouting their exclusive nonsense in public space, driving hatred to extreme proportions such as what we see today around the world, dooming all mankind.

reply to post by steve1709

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Having re-read your posts, and then mine, I realised that there are elements in each of our comments that are of crucial importance.

Firstly, there are the enormous practical implications - and a call to serious contention on a political level - associated with the email/ speech from the Netherlands which you posted. The spread of Islam is not the spread of a poor, peaceful minority to be placated and molly-coddled with our delicate European sensibilities of 'political correctness'. The ruling spirit of the 'religion' of Islam is a force to be reckoned with, an enemy to be contended with - and the perpetrators of intolerance and hatred are firmly Muslim in origin. Sadly, the machinations of propaganda have been at work, and we are told that any proper (non-violent) resistance of Islam, whether intellectual or in political address, is somehow racist or derogatory.

Unfortunately, the false god of political correctness is reigning supreme in Europe at the moment. Let no man deceive you, there are spiritual forces at work in the spread of Islam. The idea of 'submission' to Islam is central to every single leading Muslim who follows the teachings laid out in the Koran. The powers and principalities of darkness are keenly apparent behind the deceptive instructions laid out in its pages.

Looking over my posts, I realised that I was contending with Islam on a theological level - demonstrating that the Truth was made clear in Christ, and that there was no need for further revelation in the form of another 'Holy Book'. An example of the vast differences between the philosophical and moral nature of the founders of each faith group can be clearly seen in the lives of the founders themselves.

Mohammed was a warlord, a murderer, a pedophile, a bigamist and in a total sense, a brutal sadist. His own mother-in-law was convinced that he was demon-possessed.

Jesus was a preacher of righteousness by faith, a healer and an exorcist (destroying the works of Satan). He took on the nature of a servant, fed the hungry, promoted non-violence and challenged the hypocrisy of the religious elite. He raised the dead, met with the angelic spirits, resisted the temptation to take power for Himself on Earth, and called His disciples to have faith like that of a little child. He referred to God as a Heavenly Father, and promised to send God's Spirit to indwell the believers, and named that Spirit as 'the Helper'.
He befriended the outcasts, and brought to faith those who were considered 'unclean' or sinful by the religious elite. He called those who believed His message brothers, and sisters, and mothers. He spoke out on the need for faithfulness between one man and one woman in marriage, and commitment to the vows of marriage.

As the disciple and apostle John once wrote, 'If we were to record all the works that Jesus did, I doubt there would be enough books in all the world to contain them'.


In which person would you place your trust? Who would you choose to follow?

Jesus, speaking very much about the need for discernment when estimating the quality of the message being presented, said that we can tell the truth of a person by the example of the life they live:

A tree is known by its fruit. No good tree produces bad fruit, and no bad tree produces good fruit

reply to post by steve1709

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A very very interesting speech, i do fear for the peoples of Europe and the situation that will develop, something that might make 1939-45 look like a warm up act. I think in the end the people of Europe will arise to reclaim what is their rights, the problem is what might happen when that awakening happens, it could be a second dark age of man, seriously that bad. Very very scary times we enter, Danger Will Robinson, DANGER!!!

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