American Wealth Inequality Represented Graphically (155,000,000 vs 400)

Some of the responses in this thread suggest many believe the poor deserve their poverty. With this attitude those figures will never change and the rich will continue to get richer , while the poor will be demonized as lazy and worthless.

What kind of ideology instills such beliefs in it's citizens?

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Thanks for defending the least of these. I'm one. I buy my food for me and cat, pay my electric bill, pay my rent, "wash rinse repeat" the cycle agin next month and next month,......But I never have enough left to build up a nest egg, and I don't have enough left over to get a car. Good thing I'm responsible with my money obligations, otherwise me and cat would be homeless!

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Didn't realize it was net worth..
Let's see here..
I have about $4,000 net worth.
I thought it was income haha.

I'm near the bottom of the bottom

reply to post by ChaoticOrder

Now you are just blabbering nonsense... they are broke because they spend their money? No s**t sherlock, they spend their minimal wages on bills and food and other things they need to survive, leaving them with hardly anything, only just enough for the average of them to build a net worth of 8K. And how you equate that into "rich people are broke" is completely beyond me. If you mean broke, as in lacking morality and empathy, yes they are broke in that department.

What you are failing to see is very simple. If you take all the wealth and spread it around, people's net worths are 16k.

Translation: Everyone's broke.

A house is worth anywhere from 100k, up to millions. A man can build a house in a year. (It has been done before).

A single man.

A single house.

100k worth of value.

What exactly are people doing with themselves for everyone to have a shared net worth of 16k? When one man can make something of that value in one year?

The system is broken.

People spend their time engaged in useless endeavours.

I'm not totally disagreeing with you, I just think a big yellow rectangle and a little pixel isn't really helping anyone understand the situation.

reply to post by boncho

What you are failing to see is very simple. If you take all the wealth and spread it around, people's net worths are 16k.

Translation: Everyone's broke.

Another translation would be: the majority of people are broke and the rest are super rich. However you do have a legitimate point concerning the average wealth of all Americans combined, which I will address in response to the next quote.

What exactly are people doing with themselves for everyone to have a shared net worth of 16k? When one man can make that in one year?

The system is broken.

Yes, the system is broken, and asking where all the money is flowing to, if not to Americans, is a good question. I would answer this concern by suggesting a great deal of money is being "extracted" from America and syphoned off into foreign nations such as China, but that's not exactly true.

By examining the global debt crisis situation you might say most nations are being extracted, and I would propose the money is not really being siphoned off into certain nations as much as it is being syphoned off into the pockets of high level bankers, such as those who operate private central banks around the world.

It is also important to take into account the fact the public list of the top 400 richest people is most likely completely wrong, it's not based on any solid evidence. The real people who hold most of Americas wealth probably have individual net worth's rising into the trillions (like the bankers I just mentioned), but these aren't things they want the public to be aware of.

But I wanted my chart to be as accurate as possible, according to the public data. If I had of started making wild guesses about the truthful net worth of the top 400 people then my chart would be easily refuted and it would be completely useless. But in actuality, that big yellow box on the left is most probably several factors larger than what I have depicted it to be.

The system is evil, dark, dank, corrupt and dying. Let it die. Feed it no more. Walk away.

reply to post by groingrinder


Do you really think our society is set up so that every single person can start their own business?

I know it sounds great and I know it can be done by some becasue I have done it myself in the past but our system is not set up so every single person can succeed at their own business plain and simple.

What happens when a third of the population open their own business?

Do you think there is room in our economic system to have EVERY SINGLE person with their OWN BUSINESS?

The system is broken....

Originally posted by knowledgedesired
reply to post by groingrinder

 

Do you really think our society is set up so that every single person can start their own business?

I know it sounds great and I know it can be done by some becasue I have done it myself in the past but our system is not set up so every single person can succeed at their own business plain and simple.

What happens when a third of the population open their own business?

Do you think there is room in our economic system to have EVERY SINGLE person with their OWN BUSINESS?

The system is broken....

edit on 20-7-2012 by knowledgedesired because: (no reason given)

If everyone owned their own business
then there would be no employees.
There would be no product.
And you would be back poor again.

Basically We are not sustaining this system.
The Rich are Leaches, but others are too.
We have put off the death of this animal for awhile.

None of this was ever sustainable, hence banks...
Debt, but debt to what?
Debt to bankers means little when the currency isn't worth anything.
It's debt to the Earth we can't pay back..
Or we can, but not by living in cities..

Societies are like Humans.. We grow in ONE direction Bigger..
Then at some point we Die.. We were living on borrowed resources..
We give them back..
No Worries... New Animals, Humans, and Societies are Born to take their place..
Rome made room for Europe when it fell.

Maybe All this NWO stuff is a sneaky way to be a phoenix?
To die and be reborn in short order? Maintain power? Feed the Beast?
In any case we will find out in our life time, and sooner rather than later.

Originally posted by boncho
If you took away what the 400 have and gave it to the others, they would all have 16,000 dollars instead of 8,000. Hardly rich.

What would that accomplish exactly?

Cute, how about a car, a degree, down payment on a home, bill pay, a haircut, full fridge, and a night out.

On the flipside... We have the same oligarchs absorbing hard assets/ public works for less and less while they charge the bottom 155,000,000 for products and services at whatever price-point they see fit. For how long you might ask? From now until the great deluge or next comet strike. Could end with our current banking system. We'll see.

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by ChaoticOrder

Now you are just blabbering nonsense... they are broke because they spend their money? No s**t sherlock, they spend their minimal wages on bills and food and other things they need to survive, leaving them with hardly anything, only just enough for the average of them to build a net worth of 8K. And how you equate that into "rich people are broke" is completely beyond me. If you mean broke, as in lacking morality and empathy, yes they are broke in that department.

 

What you are failing to see is very simple. If you take all the wealth and spread it around, people's net worths are 16k.

Translation: Everyone's broke.

A house is worth anywhere from 100k, up to millions. A man can build a house in a year. (It has been done before).

A single man.

A single house.

100k worth of value.

What exactly are people doing with themselves for everyone to have a shared net worth of 16k? When one man can make something of that value in one year?

The system is broken.

People spend their time engaged in useless endeavours.

I'm not totally disagreeing with you, I just think a big yellow rectangle and a little pixel isn't really helping anyone understand the situation.

edit on 20-7-2012 by boncho because: (no reason given)

Hardly the case...

You must mean no devaluing of what amounts to trade or any future inflation.

The system is rigged.

People spend their time trying to escape.

Originally posted by jjkenobi
Giving everyone the same amount of money doesn't do anything. Those who are lazy and/or poor stewards will be broke in a month. Then what, give them more money? From where?

Those who work hard with what they have will just become wealthy again. Shouldn't the person who works hard and is fiscally responsible enjoy the rewards of their labor?

Here we go again. The poor DESERVE their poverty and wealthy have EARNED their wealth. How many times have I heard this rationale for justifying a very lopsided society.

I suppose by this same reckoning that if the poor were to unite and create a much more even society that you would say that the poor have EARNED their result and the rich DESERVED to loose their wealth? I'm sure you wouldn't want to be inconsistent in your approach would you?

All of these 'wealthy elite'/1%-ers/whatever (minus the ones who used fraud and thievery to get to where they are - and some of them have, but not all) obtained that wealth through voluntary exchange and voluntary contractual agreements with other individuals.

And who exactly are you (or we) to decide what they 'deserve'? Should the 'income gap' really matter as much as issues like unemployment?

Originally posted by boncho
reply to post by ChaoticOrder

A house is worth anywhere from 100k, up to millions. A man can build a house in a year. (It has been done before).

A single man.

A single house.

100k worth of value.

Ah, yea right. And how does the average common citizen BUY the TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars worth of building supplies to begin?

What exactly are people doing with themselves for everyone to have a shared net worth of 16k? When one man can make something of that value in one year?

Yea that man would have to be wealthy, have no children, have no job, and ON AND ON. Are you living in fantasy land or are you so disconnected from reality?

People spend their time engaged in useless endeavours.

You mean such as working 40 hours a week (or like myself and MANY others working 60 hours a week), and then battling all odds to find free time to dedicate to your family and your children after finishing lifes ENDLESS LIST OF CHORES that we AVERAGE COMMONERS must do everyday. You know, we cannot all be wealthy and have tons of caretakers (like Mrs Romney and other disconnected from reality folks).

I'm not totally disagreeing with you, I just think a big yellow rectangle and a little pixel isn't really helping anyone understand the situation.

edit on 20-7-2012 by boncho because: (no reason given)

Oh it helps, it really puts it ALL INTO PERSPECTIVE quite well. Except for those it angers who REFUSE to acknowledge it nor want it being shown to others...

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

Originally posted by boncho
If you took away what the 400 have and gave it to the others, they would all have 16,000 dollars instead of 8,000. Hardly rich.

What would that accomplish exactly?

Hmmm, let me see... first of all it would DOUBLE their wealth. Second of all it would stop such a small minority from owning as much wealth as half a nation. You are simply attempting to marginalise the severity of this problem. There would be a lot of benefits if these people couldn't own such huge amounts of wealth. Your logic is the same logic used against people who question the living standards of 3rd world nations, and what would happen if we started to share more with those nations instead of using them as slave labour and sucking every cent we can from them. Our 1st world nations thrive by living off of the poverty of poor nations, just as these super rich individuals thrive by living off of the poverty of everyone else.

edit on 20/7/2012 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

This is why we are supposed to have the inheritance taxes to stop people from handing down massive amounts of wealth which was used to keep control of business and society. Today these people use trusts and corporations to maintain their power. However through time and legislation the oligarchs are getting the upper hand.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


It's very true there is a large wealth disparity in our country. I'm not exactly sure what ultimate point you are trying to make, though? (And I ask that politely- I truly am not sure what conclusion/remedy/action you are ultimately expressing).

In comparison, we could take this past the American borders and make even those lower 50% out to be the 'greedy rich.'

For example, using this well known site (www.globalrichlist.com...), I put in a very modest $5,000 for my annual income. That still puts me in the top 14% wealthiest people on the planet. (And I'm sure even those living on American government assistance receive benefits worth more than that paltry amount).

Perhaps in the eyes of a starving African, we are the greedy rich.

reply to post by HangTheTraitors

Ah, yea right. And how does the average common citizen BUY the TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars worth of building supplies to begin?

While the knee-jerk reactions in this thread are assuming I'm defending the current system I assure you I am not. If the world was populated by only one hundred people you would see what I was talking about.

This is a thought exercise only.

The indoctrination is evident, even with people who believe the 1% is primary cause of all of this. They want a system that still exploits other people around the world, and a rich middle class so they can have all that they believe is fulfilling in life.

The bottom line is even the poorest in the North America are richer than many in other nations. And you are no different to them as the 1% is to you.

The top wealth in North America need to realize they are not that wealthy either. Essentially, you can have the nicest location to live in a sewer, but you still live in a sewer.

Back to the thought exercise:

www.loghomebuilders.org...

The Log Home Builders Association is a non-profit educational association that teaches the craft of log home building to average men and women who have an interest in building their own log home. We do not work with commercial or "kit" builders, only owner-builders and others who are interested in building a "real" log home for themselves

Remember this is a thought exercise. It is not practical for everyone to build their own home these days. A number of things prevent people from even being able to do so.

The point of it is to think about what one man can do with his own hands and resources that are openly available (sort of) and to relate that to our current system.

Our current system is inefficient. Millions of people sit in offices contributing nothing to our daily lives. They are the problem. Thousands of people will work for an insurance company spending millions of man hours every year just to figure out how not to pay 65 year old Ms. Nancy White a settlement because she had a "pre-existing" condition.

This is the problem. This is why the 1% appear as the problem. Because we have allowed a system that belittles normal people to feed the top. There is no reason why both can't live with some relatively positive relationship.

To go further, we also have issues like over population. We have worldwide inequality, not just the middle class vs. the top in North America. If North America prospers, other countries see declines and vice versa. And while everyone wants to blame the rich in their own country, other countries have been able to blame you for centuries.

www.economist.com...

The world owes a lot of money.

-

So what should we do, cut the heads off all the wealthy in all the world? People still need leaders. People still need someone to organize and create things that bring prosperity. (Businesses and the like...) and it will still be the people who are the 1% now.

I would hope that in this time in human history people will be able to bring about sweeping change without having to install guillotines on every corner for the wealthy to lose their heads.

But who knows....

(like Mrs Romney and other disconnected from reality folks).

When the ship goes down everyone wants to blame the captain. The problem here isn't the captain, it's the ship. Think of the French Revolution...

There will always be people richer than others. And there should be as some people will do more in life than others. That's not the bad thing. The problem is the ship has been full of holes, taking on water for decades and no one really cared about it. People were two busy playing into red vs. blue politics.

Just as you have to mention Mrs. Romney when discussing the subject, it's engrained into you.

You want good vs. bad, evil enemies to topple, but the system is the enemy and has been corrupted for eons now. When the ship is repaired it will be the same people driving it so it really isn't about the people. It's about putting a navigation system on the ship that doesn't let our idiot captains run them into icebergs.

reply to post by AshleyD


Beautiful post. I think many fail to see that. Which is why playing the blame game simply doesn't work. Blame never seems to run out does it?

reply to post by AshleyD

I'm not exactly sure what ultimate point you are trying to make, though? (And I ask that politely- I truly am not sure what conclusion/remedy/action you are ultimately expressing).

This thread was not about offering a solution or remedy, it was simply about providing information for the consideration of others. However, on page one I did already make my position precisely clear:

Giving everyone the same amount of money doesn't do anything.

First of all I never said anything about the rich handing out their money until everyone has the same amount, that is an assumption Boncho made without even knowing how I really see this problem and how I think it can be remedied. See the following thread if you wish to know exactly where I stand:
Contribution Factor Theory

Perhaps in the eyes of a starving African, we are the greedy rich.

Once again I refer you to a post I made on page one in reply to Boncho:

Your logic is the same logic used against people who question the living standards of 3rd world nations, and what would happen if we started to share more with those nations instead of using them as slave labour and sucking every cent we can from them. Our 1st world nations thrive by living off of the poverty of poor nations, just as these super rich individuals thrive by living off of the poverty of everyone else.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Hello there. Yes, I saw that post. But it appeared to be a response about what you were not proposing in this thread- not a clarification of what exactly you were trying to get at. But judging by your newest response to me, I take it you're mainly posting an 'FYI.' Fair enough.

So I'll go back to what I said before. In the eyes of another, everyone is the rich. To someone with a million dollars, those mega billionaires are the greedy rich. To someone with $100,000, those with a million dollars are the greedy rich. To someone who makes minimum wage, those with $100,000 are the greedy rich. To a family starving in Africa, those working at McDonald's are the greedy rich.

It's relative.

I'm not here trying to defend the uber wealthy or judge them. You cannot judge any whole by the part. But it is all relative. I don't have an 'eat the rich' mentality because I know to someone else I am perceived as that (although I know darn well I am not).

There will always be inequality. And for every have-not, another have-not will be looking at them as the haves.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


I really think the graphic at the beginning of the thread is quite useless as all it does is show one symptom of a much larger issue.

The bottom line if we are talking "fairness" we should have to account the entire world into the equation. This leaves us with this:

$78.95 trillion (2011 est.)